_Teob_

I commend the OP on such a positive outlook. Yes, despite what some people will say, this is a brilliantly fun game. However, I don't agree with you 100%. Lack of self doubt is one of the major obstacles on the path of improvement. Not everyone can be confident that what they are doing is correct but also know there is a better way to do it. This is the crux of the issue. We've all seen 47% WR players calling other people "noobs". That's a blatant lack of self doubt coupled with unyielding confidence right there. Confidence should always be tempered with a healthy dose of self doubt.

Detonation in the first 5 mins after doing 2.3k dmg. Ouch. I can't for the life of me how that can be fun for anyone. Even if I were to concede the point that they can be mildly amusing, detonations at the start of a match from full health are infuriating in all aspects. And it's not like WG is even milking this for money or something cause you can't buy the detonation flags. It's just poor game design.

You guys must have had a really good winning streak which made the MM think you are essentially smurfing or something. It's annoying for both sides, if it makes you feel any better. It's not impossible to lose vs a lower rated team as mistakes happen at every level and when you do lose, you lose 30 or so points which is incredibly painful. And if you win, you get like 8 points.

I feel like OP doesn't take into account that there's always a "bigger fish". I mean obviously the OP thinks he's too good to be placed in matches with certain other players. But the thing is, there are people who would't want the OP in their team on the exact same principle. Also, why would 50% be the cutoff? I don't think the population is big enough to support an Elo rating system just yet.

For USN DDs, I would stick to HE only against other DDs. You can do decent AP damage on bigger enemy DDs, like Gearings, Grozovois and Khabas. But out of all of those the only one I would actually consider firing AP at is a broadside khaba at around 6-7km. IFHE is not worth it so don't bother with it. As far as penning cruisers, it depends a lot on the angle. If they are totally broadside, you AP should do OK dmg on them. I would suggest you zoom in on your minimap as much as possible (+ on the numpad) and then look at ships you are shooting at to determine their angle. Just using your binocular vision can be misleading. But again, I would mostly stick to HE. If you want to see actual penetration values for your AP and the dropoff over distance as well as what angle your shells will be landing, use this site. Not saying you should use it each time you see a boat but note down the armour values of some of the cruisers you're up against (use the in-game armour viewer) and then check them against the values there at like 5 and 10 km or something. Make a mental note of your findings and you should be good to go.

Again, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. I will explain. And we explained to you why that is. You are right that it wasn't an issue for a while and then it was (after significant changes in the game) - I don't see why that's an issue. It wasn't a problem until other changes in the game mechanics made it a problem. That's exactly what happened. And this is where you are wrong because you simply don't know what the situation is. Even broadside you take full pens because the shells hit the water and then detonate. It happens with alarming frequency. And what's more it means that you cannot angle, you cannot stay broadside, you cannot do anything if a BB is shooting at you with the type of ammo that's not supposed to kill you. Again, BBs do not bother changing ammo, AP works the best on everything. That's simply not OK. And that's only part of the issue. WG alluded to the whole system having a fundamental error in the way the ballistic system works which is why they are changing it. Long range hits on DDs are not RNG. I can show you how I got hit with multiple shells at 13-14km numerous times. I can give you BB players that will attest that they have no issues hitting DDs. Especially at high tiers. I know multiple DD players that will tell you that a Montana looking their way is the scariest thing afloat. It does affect all classes. But the problem is that as a percentage of health lost, DDs are impacted the most by it. But again, this isn't rare, and the whole discussion is not just about the double damage bug (which still does happen quite often as well). It's about eating normal penetrations from virtually any angle which is exacerbated by the bug you keep referring to. This indeed wasn't as big of an issue when 3 out of 4 DDs at t10 were Shimas and when there wasn't radar/hydro etc. in the game. It is an issue now, It has been confirmed as an issue by WG and it will be remedied. BBs should not be using only AP to blast everything afloat. In fact, despite the Conqueror's ludicrous performance with HE, I haven't seen a single DD player complaining about that so I think people are pretty reasonable.

With all due respect you are missing the point. You are trying to oversimplify an issue and at this point you are so sure that you are right that it would be very difficult for you to change your mind. So please remember that when reading the rest of my post here. So your arguments revolve around two things here 1) DD players are complaining about overpens and 2) that this was always the same but it only got noticed now and people started complaining so wg decided to change it in appeasement. I will address these two points in turn. But again, please keep an open mind here otherwise we are both wasting our time. At least consider that we're not all whiny idiots. 1) No, DDs are not complaining about overpens. That is not the issue at all nor is the point of this thread that. You don't need @MortenTardo to confirm that because he's not a moron so he wouldn't complain about something that does less damage than an HE shell. The main issue are BB normal penetrations which can happen at any angle. This issue is further enhanced by the AP bug which causes shells to do more damage than intended. It's a compound problem and not a simple one of us not being happy with overpen damage. 2) @Capra76 made a great post here explaining exactly what has changed and why this issue is being noticed more now but you ignored most of it. The only thing I would add to it is that we also didn't have detailed ribbons/damage so we had no way of knowing what happened. But again, it's a complex issue. Stealth nerf, radar, new DD lines that are much bulkier than the Shima (which was and still is the most played DD at t10) all add up to a situation which is universally accepted as being over the top. We didn't just start complaining about this all of a sudden, it simply wasn't an issue like a year ago. You could also stop being condescending and treat everyone with the same respect they are showing you but I assume that's asking too much.

I mean that was from like 13km. The player was a nice dude and we chatted afterwards. No hard feelings but yeah, I was raging a bit especially as it cost us the game. Edit: And yes, I was in the Z52

We've had this in the older threads about this as well. There will always be people who say it's fine. Despite the majority of good players (both BBs and DDs saying it's not), despite WG themselves saying it's not and they are working on a fix. Weirdly enough people who tend to think BB AP is OK, also tend to have less than stellar stats. In the meantime...

If it has the stock hull and it's not using survivability expert then yeah, you can just about 1-shot it. But normally you would need 2-3 salvos. Which is still, let's be honest, insanely good.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, your question relate to USN CAs, right? Cause you state that you're a DD captain and an IJN cruiser captain. If you are talking about USN cruisers, then 1) Yeah, HE but without IFHE (which you don't need) 2) You probably aimed poorly. Different ships have the citadel positioned in different positions but as far as penning cruisers with USN AP, you can do it at pretty much any range. The Pensacola (t7 USN cruisers) can citadel a Moskva with ease if it has its broadside. Use the armor viewer in port to see the different ships you might be facing and try to memorize their citadel position and you'll be golden. The only USN cruisers where IFHE is worth it are all cruisers at t6 and below and the Atlanta and Flint.

True... but then if they are farther than 10.6 it can just go quiet. And if they come under 10 km then the situation changes dramatically.

Nah, I can see it at least. I have time to turn even if I am heading straight for it. But yeah that's scary as well. TBH a Zao that kept its guns quiet until you get spotted by an enemy DD is also potentially lethal. But the DM... I am terrified of those things with the radar range almost the same as their detection range.

There is nothing scarier for a DD than a Des Moines. If you want a DD counter cruiser, pick that. Also, DDs get blown out of the water just as easily by BBs.

nuff said

DDs can spot them just fine. But obviously due to the lower detection, the chances of them being spotted by DDs is lower. It also means that a DD might not spot a whole spread.

But then someone like that probably won't have enough XP to convert into free XP. You still need to play a considerable number of matches to even have enough XP to convert in the first place. You can't use money to just get to t10 if you hadn't played enough before.

I have 1.6m saved up. I can free xp to t10, buy the Missouri and still have around 200k or so left over. Edit: I should mention that getting that free xp didn't cost me anything because I just played normally and used the flags that I kept getting in containers or events. I also wouldn't buy the Missouri anyway.

What if we already have enough free XP saved up to get all the way to T10 without spending a single unit of real world currency?

Thank for all your work! We also have this thread here with quite a lot of the same information. I don't know what sort of overlap there is between you and that.

My own "cultural heritage" is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is that I lived in London for over three years. Used to work right next to London Bridge, or rather next to Borough Market and near St. Katharine Docks at Thomas More Square. I might be a Johnny Foreigner or I might be have been born and raised right next to Tooting Bec. Fact of the matter is that calling people "mentally challenged" is rude in any culture, including British unless you are doing it in a way that makes it clear it's a joke. And I'd wager you'd still get a lot of stick for saying it to anyone other than close friends. I am not trying to change your mind at all. I wouldn't have even replied to you if you hadn't made that culture clash comment. You will find that quite a few people from the UK disagree with you. The bantz ladz defence never works.

5.9km range hydro which is massive. The extra range on the guns is really good because it means you can smoke up outside USN radar range safely. The two turrets on the nose means you can actually be aggressive. It's a very different boat but having played the z46 recently, I can guarantee that the Z52 gets much harsher MM. Like, the game is probably more enjoyable in the z46. It's super easy to farm dmg in it especially when you're against t7 MM. After 25 matches in the z46 I have around 90k average damage in it.

There is no clash of cultures. It's not that foreigners can't understand this higher level humour. I emphatically disagree that you could use that sort of term in the UK in any official/public situation. Unless you're Jimmy Carr or Frankie Boyle in concert, people will take issue with that sort of thing. Even if we would try to call it "banter", there is a time and a place for everything. I get that you can push the limits of humour when you're with mates, but with strangers I am sure you'd keep it PC. There was no overreaction here. Just because it happened in another instance it doesn't mean it happened this time.

The thing is you can't hit those BBs at the back anyway. Less able players move in really unpredictable patterns. I can't count the times when I fired torpedoes at something, being sure it would continue on its course, only to see with utter disbelief as it turns totally broadside to my entire team and gets popped faster than a balloon at a needle enthusiasts convention. Basically I don't think there's anything that can be done to counter the BB sniping. I mean to the ships themselves. I think one thing that would help with that is if those people all knew that their repair costs are fixed and that if they would kamikaze on another BB they would have almost unicum stats and make more credits than by sniping. I think that where DWT will help is to alleviate the battleship ballerina effect. Where a BB that should eat 3-4 torpedoes will turn nimbly and take 1. Bismark and Tirpitz are some of the worst offenders of this.

I was just being facetious. Obviously damage from torpedoes is catastrophic for cruisers. I also agree that cruisers don't need any nerfs or anymore grief. But what I meant was that there are tools to alleviate accidental hits and accidental torpedo hits will always happen. The incidence of accidental hits will increase significantly only if all the DDs in the game will suddenly be PADDs. Otherwise it really should be BBs that will be affected the most. And even then I don't think the impact will be that massive.