_Teob_

It seems you just have to get better.

As someone with over 1k matches in both the Gearing and the Z52, I am of the opinion that the best cap contender is the Z52 hands down. For me it's not even close. The Gearing cannot really counter smoke. The Z52 can.

Nothing can contest the cap safely against a Lo Yang (except a z52) and it has nothing to do with concealment but rather with his hydro. I am sure you're a good player but if it was just you vs those two, you still have a cap that you should be able to contest. And you are much faster than them. Not saying it's easy but it's not quite the end of the world. Edit: Plus, not for nothing but doesn't the fact that you won sort of invalidate what was already an anecdotal piece of evidence?

Not sure that comparison is totally apt The line that both the Udaloi (friendly team in the OP) and the Ognevoi (enemy team) belong to is actually quite stealthy and perfectly capable of capping.

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying.

Well in my mind that removes a threat. An MK not in a smoke firing at people is pretty vulnerable. I am not saying that the MK is unplayable. And it certainly fares better than most other smoke cruisers after the change because it was never a close range ship to begin with. That's the extent of my argument here: that despite it being a premium ship, it was affected. So initially I was talking with @SeeteufeI about nerfs on premiums. All I did was point out that while as far as I know, no direct nerfs were directed at premiums, general nerfs did affect them. I am not denying that it does happen. But I also see people running away from it. I believe that the radar is one of the main reasons why its win rate is so high. I am just saying that neither myself nor any of the DDs I know would be close to a Missouri if we can help it. All good players I know would agree that the radar on that boat is lethal if you're not careful. Especially due to the unique and interesting way BB AP interacts with DDs. At any rate, it's virtually impossible to determine with certainty. We both only have anecdotal evidence. I do think we can both agree that the radar is at least a deterrent and at most a powerful tool giving this ship an edge over its non premium alternative.

Right. So your point is that MK players know where all DDs are at all times. OK then. I can't really argue that point. Nor do I want to. I think that an MK in smoke might not realize when a DD is sneaking up on it and spotting it while it's firing from smoke. This is also why I said that the MK was affected by the smoke nerf because before that, it wouldn't get detected. That's more likely than a Missouri sneaking up on DDs. You seem to disagree with that - I think. DDs in general try to stay away from radar ships. You don't agree with that either, from what I can tell based on the fact that you feel players don't know what ships have radar and because a Missouri can sneak up on a DD from behind an island. OK then. Why would I be embarrassed? I didn't say anything wrong here. Also, had I made a mistake, I wouldn't have any issue in admitting it. I still wouldn't be embarrassed. I don't mind admitting my mistakes - if I did I wouldn't be here discussing things. Like I said, you make no sense to me. But then again you don't have to. I am done with this stupid argument because it's not worth my time.

What hole am I digging myself in? You are literally making no damn sense. I don't know what your argument is here. Or what I said that you disagree with. Is your whole point that people don't know that certain cruisers and the Missouri have radar? Is that perfect game knowledge in your definition? I am trying to even understand what you disagree with here because I genuinely don't know what your point is. I keep asking you what you are trying to say but you keep replying in a weird way.

What are you talking about now? What exactly are you even trying to say here? Are you arguing that DDs don't try to avoid radar ships?

Oh yeah totally fair enough. RN cruisers deffo ate the brunt of that particular change. No contest from me there. I think it is significant on the MK personally but we can disagree on that. Less so on the Belfast though. And on the Missouri, my point is that people just naturally stay away from it because you never know when radar is used. I am sure some people don't know about the Missouri having radar or simply suicide on it but good players won't in my experience. I usually try to torp Missouris from 10km or so unless i know for sure they used their radar. You are right of course that it's more effective on some cruisers. Especially the DM and the Chapayev imo. The issue is, as you said yourself, that it's on a BB which should have never happened. The problem with that is that while cruisers tend to be relatively squishy the Missouri is obviously not. So if a Missouri wants to push a cap and radar it, there's very little you can do about it other than run away. With Cruisers you friendly BBs can potentially deter them.

No, I didn't contradict myself at all. You are not making any sense. An MK cannot always know if there's an enemy DD around when it's in smoke. It also doesn't always have the option to not smoke, especially if it's under heavy fire. Regarding the Missouri radar, I said it has a permanent deterrence effect like any other ship with radar that makes DDs not want to get close. You are literally not making any damn sense now.

what the hell are you even talking about? I didn't call anyone out. I said that's how the MK was affected. And DDs do keep away from the Missouri because you cannot know when radar is used. Where did I say people can't do it? Seriously, I am actually curious what are you talking about now.

What do you mean "nah"?? You yourself state how they were affected right after you disagree with me when I said that it affected them. What weirdness is this? I have spotted MKs in smoke on several occasions after they fired . Their smoke spotting range is pretty significant. Like 8km or so. At any rate the point is they were affected. It's debatable how much ofc. Regarding the Missouri, it's not about actually using the radar. It's about the fact that you keep all DDs at around 10 km away from you which means that torpedoes are almost useless unless you sail in a straight line for a long time. Radar is not situational - it provides a constant benefit by its very existence.

Oh, I hope they won't go crazy. The Salem looks OK. Like it's different than the Des Moines but I wouldn't say it's stronger. That's OK by me. Who knows what the Stalingrad will be like though...

Yeah on the Khaba, I totally get why it needed it. It was just so damn good. I mean even after all these nerfs it's still the best performing DD at t10. I know it's not quite a DD, but you know what I mean. At least now it's kinda bad against other DDs at really close range... sort of. It's still a good boat though. The Missouri... yeah it's a strong boat. Very strong boat in fact. For the reasons you mentioned mostly. The radar on it makes it unbelievable scary to play against. The fun part with all these premiums is that the solution to avoid any sort of issues with them is to play t10. Of course that means always being up against the crazy t10 ships which are stronger than premiums but hey, you can't have everything.

Well, I mean, I guess premiums were nerfed. Just not individually. Like the stealth fire changes made the Grem a pretty average boat. And the smoke nerf definitely affected the MK and the Belfast. I get it though, it's difficult to change something that people paid for. Weirdly enough though, the ship I consider to be the most OP premium at the moment is the Missouri. That requires a bit of work before you can get it.

No, you don't understand. I am not defending anything. Why are you making baseless assertions? I am just saying that you are not being constructive. You are not in a position to call anyone else "bad" - not least of which because it's quite rude and won't win any arguments. I presume you're an adult, right? As an adult, read your post again and think really hard if it's actually adding anything to this discussion by pretending like you've never had a bad game. I even agree with you in principle that blaming the team is silly in pretty much all cases. That said, some premium ships are outright overpowered so the OP does have half a point.

Weird that you say you don't know. You seem to be an expert at getting low scores on several ships. If the game was about getting low scores, you'd be a unicum is what I am saying here. Now how about you scurry back under your bridge if you can't be polite/constructive?

I prefer to just think of it as magic. If I try to rationalise it I just get angry.

I wasn't! They didn't even hit me ffs!

I will just leave this here

Your match history there would lead me to believe that the official explanation is right. The teams you are winning against must be much higher than you since you're gaining 30-32 points. You are also not losing a lot of points when you do lose so again, it might be higher rated teams. Lastly, your win rate is a very respectable 58%. So from the game's perspective you guys are climbing the ranks rapidly.

I guess people have more money than sense...

But a lot of people don't. That's my point. I have improved over time a lot but I still have a lot of self doubt at the start of each match.

I mean, I know about that but they are just a bonus in that pack. Buying that just for Juliet Charlie would be around 1 euro per flag or something. And the biggest pack only has 50 of them. If you could spend 50 euros and buy 300 of them I would consider it an absolute cash grab and P2W. I guess people could theoretically be buying that pack for the Juliet Charlie flags alone. I just never considered it an option.