_Teob_

Not to ruin anyone's fun here but this was discussed to death last year (beginning like 10 months before the excellent thread created by @MortenTardo ) In an effort to not have another 20+ pages of debate on this, we already have Red Shirt acknowledgment of the issue and AP shouldn't be a better choice than HE for BBs against DDs : Additionally, WG mentioned that, while trying to rework this, they discovered some other issues/interactions that need to be resolved so it's a very labour intensive and time consuming situation. I don't think we have a new timing for this but I would expect a 2019 delivery date. tl;dr : ballistic model is not working properly and needs to be reworked, the mid 2018 estimate was before the problem had been fully explored.

Compared to the khaba the grozo also lacks armour. And the ships is considerably slower. I do think that the grozo is best played as the flexible boat it is. If you overspecialise it in one direction you lose that flexibility. So while I appreciate your scathing sarcasm, you were wrong. It is a worse khaba if you try to play it the same as a khaba. Shocking, I know. So again, the specs I posted are currently by far the most effective. Unless I see actual proof in the shape of performance, then I see no reason to change my mind. I am happy to be proven wrong though, I'd love to see some weird spec outperforming the more established ones - we could have an actual discussion then. Edit: I wouldn't put much stock in what @Yaskaraxx thinks. You never know if you're actually talking to him or his evil twin brother (that writes in the exact same style) or his dog that ate his homework. It is hard after all to have coherent view points with all those magical pixie fairies gnawing on this thoughts...

I used that for a while. I found that overall I prefer the steering gears because at high speeds without it I kept sailing into BB salvos. I do miss the extra acceleration off the mark though...

I don't think there's any right answer here. You need both. If you can't have both each option has its advantages and drawbacks.

I don't quite know what to tell you about the order as I am not leveling a captain for it now. It's tough because SE is incredibly important but I do take your point on SI. This is just my opinion but I think I would take SE first. My logic is that yes, it really hurts losing a charge for so many consumables but there are matches where I still have consumables at the end so I may or may not need all the charges I have. Health however is always useful. It is a really tough choice though and I suspect that either option is a bit painful.

I am starting to think that you are some sort of troll. But look, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and address your points. I do apologise to everyone else for the off-topic. 1) Whether or not what I am proposing is dull/boring is entirely subjective. For example I have a lot more fun when I am winning while doing a lot of damage than losing and doing very little damage. However as far as effectiveness goes, I submit as proof my performance in the ship over 1000+ battles. What proof do you have that what you are proposing works? So in conclusion ,no, io no capisco. 2) Your whole point stands on the fact that you consider what are objectively effective specs, boring. That is at the very least debatable and, more likely, wrong. People like to be effective. It's human nature. I do think however that most people like to feel like they are progressing. Going to the forum and getting poor information as facts could however turn people away. What's more, in WoWs poor information can cost people real money because of respec costs and that is something that can definitely put people off. At any rate, I assure you that I want as many players as possible playing this game and have spent considerable amounts of my own time to that end on the forum, in the competitive scene and by offering to train anyone that needed help. For someone that never plays in divisions you do tend to speak for others a lot. You seem to harbour this notion that a large percentage of the player base agrees with you. I don't see any evidence to that effect. Speak for yourself, prove your assertions with your own performance and then we can have a debate. I also don't quite know how many people read the forum. I wish more people would use the available resources (wiki, forum, videos) as it would alleviate a lot of avoidable frustration. On a separate note, I love how you say that people like me ruin the game but at the same time you make the point that only 30 people use the forum. Bit of a contradiction there. So... uhm... good riddance?

Holy poop. I feel like the forums are a place where people come for information so it's quite important to at least try to be factually correct. To that end, and with all due respect, most of what @Yaskaraxx writes is questionable at best. There are two main ways to spec the Grozovoi at the moment for maximum effectiveness. Both specs can achieve 65% solo win rate. The difference in damage stems from the fact that the first build is much more adept at hunting DDs but not as good at starting fires. 1) PT/PM, LS + AR, SE + SI, AFT + CE This is the all purpose build. It allows you to play a traditional DD role as well as run and gun. Very flexible. Average damage at the top end of the scale is around 85-100k. I favour PT over PM. 2) PM, AR/LS, SE + BFT + DE + SI, AFT That is a pure gunboat spec that emphasises damage above all else. There are people hitting 110-130k average damage with this. If you take LS then you take PT instead. Mods (for both specs): Main Armament Mod 1 Engine Boost Mod 1 Aiming Systems Mod 1 Steering Gears Mod 2 Concealment System Mod 1 Main Battery mod 3 / Recoilless Main Battery guns As far as how to play it, you just have to play each situation as it comes. Nobody looking your way? Run and gun 7 people targeting you? Smoke Smoke is on Cooldown? Go for a torpedo run As a final word here, please always check the stats of anyone handing out advice. If they can barely play a ship, they sure as hell can't teach anyone else to play that ship. If someone's ideas/spec are sound then their performance should reflect that. What I am saying is that everyone can have an opinion but opinions are not equally valid. If there's nothing to back that opinion with, then there's a good chance it's just a load of tosh.

I am sure this has all been said before but I couldn't find it so please do let me know if what I am about to propose is yesterday's news. I would quite like it if the team with more ships on a cap would cap even if there's an enemy ship also in the cap. By this I mean that if the enemy team is blocking a cap with 1 DD and we have 2 DDs in the cap we should still slowly be able to take that point. Obviously having an enemy ship in a cap would still block or at the very least slow down points gain. It just feels to me that the team that invests more resources (in this case players) in capping should get something out of it. Thoughts?

rushing a DD in smoke means 100% death for at least one of the rushing ships if not both because of either torpedoes from the defending DD or all his team shooting at the rushing ships. I can't remember ever seeing what you're describing which is why I am proposing this solution in the first place.

Well that's the thing. If what I am proposing would be implemented there's a direct implication to BBs and cruisers pushing the central cap in epicentre. In the sense that look if we have more ships on the point, we will cap. And since most people don't go in the middle, there's obviously a need to try to do something about that.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I don't want to devalue blocking too much. I mostly just want to make a higher investment of resources mean more.

Maybe... or at least do it for epicenter for example. Because again, that mode is basically DDs being shot like fish in a barrel in the middle while everyone casually sails around the sides as there is no point in them being in the cap.

Well I see it the other way around. In the sense that I think that what I am proposing would make more people go for caps. And it would mean large ships could cap as well instead of being blocked by one DD in a smoke. There would still be incentive to block because of the points gain. I don't think it could be worse than right now where DDs and only DDs cap anyway in the vast majority of cases.

I realise I might just be pointing out the obvious here but...

Yeah to be fair, I would never presume to know better than you. I have very few matches under tier 8 and I think that I was just dmg farming for the hell of it rather than going for the optimal build. Also I played it when the Shira was all the rage so it was usually me and a bunch of sneakier IJN DDs. I've not seen Mahans in ages.

I am grateful for the vote of confidence but I actually don't like the Leningrad that much. I've only played like 10 matches in it or something and then I swapped my captain out. However, for what it's worth, I ran this build at the time I didn't see the point of running CE that much as there aren't that many things that won't outspot you anyway. I played it like a mini khaba and although the sample size is totally inadequate, I was doing around 70k. You slot the engine boost mod on it and then you're going like 47kn for very long periods of time. At t7 there are few ships that can shoot well enough to nail you consistently. Edit: I take PT on the Grozo. It's not an especially fast or small DD so you need to know how many people are looking your way in order to maximise your impact. I won't comment on the other DDs as I am rubbish in them.

Rule of thumb is you can blame a small number of loses on your team. However it's your own performance that will affect your win rate in the long run.

Yes they are...

That's the point of smoke for those ships. Without the ability to fire from smoke they do not work. Do you at least consider that you might be wrong or basically not know enough about the game?

you must be speaking from experience or something, right? I am obviously not good enough because I definitely need smoke in my DDs. I also think that you didn't get the point. The point he was trying to make is that there's a whole line of ships that would not work at all without smoke (RNCLs). And a whole class that would suffer immensely without it (DDs). In fact the only class that benefits from less smoke are BBs.

That would literally ruin the game. Terrible idea. Using historical events to justify robbing people of kills would just be horrible. We don't need a self-destruct button in any way shape or form. What we do need is for everyone to play to the best of their ability. A t8 CV will keep t10 DDs spotted and force smokes and make torpedoes useless just as well as a t10 CV. Not to mention that even 3-4 torpedo bombers making it through and hitting a BB (of any tier) that has used its DCP will result in a slow agonizing death for that BB. CVs are never useless.

That's frustrating even to read. But yeah, that was my initial point. I don't understand for the life of me but there are some people that simply fail to recognize a tactical advantage. I imagine the Bismarck in your story just thought "welp, there's 2 of them and just one of me, it's obviously lost anyway so I might as well ram".

That's exactly my point though. Had the Takao panicked because the Bismarck was capping one of the points and went to defend, then Reds had a good chance of winning. In fact, as you correctly pointed out, the play there was to go dark and run for the hills and let the Bismarck get all the caps and do whatever the hell he wanted because the only way he was gonna win is if he killed the Takao. My experience is (in both randoms and ranked) that people don't get that relationship between caps and the rate of points gained so in their mind 2 caps lost = lost game despite it not always being the case so they take unnecessary risks which in the end snowballs a loss even worse because when they die they feed points.

That's clearly not the case. You are actually doing very very well indeed. Your performance is comfortably among the top 100 players. You are one of those exceptional players you referred to. Ranked is NOT a grind for you and you are most likely having a very positive impact on your matches.

You need to do something but that something doesn't need to mean throwing ships at caps. If you can get more kills, I would focus on that. There's a point where the enemy team can't win anymore due to lack of ships afloat. And yeah, 3 minutes until they overtake you in points which doesn't mean that you lost the match automatically. The point is that losing ships simply out of panic because the enemy has 2 caps is usually a bad idea (especially so if it's as a result of failing to recognize an overall tactical superiority)