_Teob_

Closing this one down, folks. We're starting to discuss CVs again so we're all going way off topic. If you have additional questions or concerns please feel free to PM me. If you have issues with moderation, please PM @Sehales. Locked.

We're getting off topic here. The question was why we cannot have CV threads and I think that has been answered now. Does anyone have any issues with me closing this?

Because I cannot address the main issue. The reason behind it as you call it. I cannot stop people from being frustrated. I have no power over that. I think it's totally legitimate for players to feel that way. I understand. But at the same time I am powerless to do anything about it. And for what it's worth, in the moderation team, we have never been given any other reason to merge CV threads other than keeping the forum clean. It's a point of view I agree with as well. I think that, while people have legitimate concerns, it's simply not acceptable to spam the forum every day with the same topic over and over again. Now, do I think that there are potential benefits for WG? I don't know but it's not inconceivable so I know where you (and others) are coming from looking at it that way. I cannot say for sure that they are not benefiting from this otherwise legitimate endeavour of keeping the forum healthy so I totally see your point. But since I don't know either way, I can't say for sure. At any rate all I wanted to do here is shed some light from a mod's perspective because I thought it was unfair that the mod team was being accused of doing something underhanded. So I will say again, WG has never asked us to censor or suppress information on the forum in any way.

You replying directly to my use of the expression "apologist" and linking your unwarranted opinion of me to that. Second sentence has the word "combined" in the beginning, implying that it's linked to the first so that it's also about me. Can we PLEASE not do this? I am asking you to please stop.

This right here is proving my point perfectly. I have a different opinion than someone about CVs, therefore I am "removed from reality" and "elitist". That's a tiny throwaway part of my post where I just try to set out where I am coming from but because I don't think in the exact same way, I get attacked. The irony of calling me "thought policeman" while policing what I think is also pretty funny. As is the irony of disqualifying me from having an opinion about CVs because I don't have enough experience but then calling me "elitist". Also, we have moderators with more than a couple of hundred CV games in case one of us needs help with the minutiae of some CV thread. That is not usually the issue though. You don't need a lot of experience in CVs to be able to moderate people flinging insults at each other over 3 different pages. But this is all besides the point. It's literally not the topic of my post or of the thread so with all due respect, let's not start an endless debate about this, shall we?

I don't think they are currently taking suggestions for their market research. Nobody asked me for my opinion so I don't think I will make any suggestions. However, I am pretty sure they know what the situation is themselves. In all fairness, people have been saying they are quitting due to SPGs in WoT since forever and the game is still thriving so I don't know how much stock I put in the notion that people quit because of either of them (CVs or SPGs)

No, what happens is the first post says something positive about CVs, then someone reports it, we go to the thread and it's already littered with insults and snarky replies. We delete all of those and THEN merge the thread as at that point, it doesn't make sense on its own. Because most people don't see the deleted stuff they just assume we merged some random thread. Not saying it never happened - we make mistakes, I am sure. I certainly do. But in my experience, what I wrote above happens by far the most often.

I believe I have made my thoughts on the matter of CVs clear from my first post in this thread. That's not the point though. The point is that, even assuming that the grievances are totally valid, we simply cannot have the forum swamped with CV threads with virtually the same things being said in them again and again. It's just not healthy for the forum or for the game for that matter. Also, with the best possible of respect for the community on the forum here, we represent a very small minority of players. The vast majority of the population doesn't really visit the forum nor do they care about our endless debates here. What I am saying is that drawing conclusions based on the opinion on the forum is not a good idea. That's not to say that the population at large would necessarily dissent with the views expressed here. I am just saying that this is a bit of an echo chamber at times. I personally do not have access to any surveys that WG has run on the player base in general. I would LOVE to know what average Joe thinks of the CV rework. Edit: World of Tanks has just celebrated 10 years, and WoWS has been going on for like what, 4-5 years now? WG may not be enlightened but they are certainly in it for the long run with their games. Not saying they won't take the money, just that they won't run anywhere.

It depends how people want to interpret it, I guess. You know how it is, if someone wants to misinterpret you in a negative way, they will find a way to do it. I hope that what I wrote after makes it clear that the main issue is complaining about the same things over and over again.

no, you're right, let's just create endless topics about the exact same thing. Like for example the damage that CVs do with rocketplanes to DDs - that has clearly never been discussed before. Honestly, if we'd allow that, the forum would be swamped topics discussing the exact same thing. By the way, "constructive" doesn't mean positive. For example, think of constructive criticism. All I am saying is it's pointless to have endless threads with people insulting each other over the same arguments. Come on now, surely you must see the rationale behind that, right? On a related note, everyone understood the exact same modus operandi when it comes to the MM thread. We have a mega-thread for matchmaking for the exact same reasons.

Just your friendly neighbourhood wood pixie here fighting the good fight against necromancers. On a more serious note, this boat has sailed already in the sense that we have a full line of pan european (basically Swedish) DDs in the game so I think discussing that might be a tad late. Locked.

OK so I see that all the conspiracy theorists are out in force so how about I explain it from a moderation perspective instead of all this speculation? Everything that I will say here is NOT WG official position but rather my own opinions based on having access to a bit more information (not a lot more though). Full disclosure first: I don't like CVs in their current form. I am OK with them in randoms (apart from t4) but I think they are broken in anything other than 12 v 12 - which is basically any competitive mode (ranked or CBs). I am saying this just so nobody labels me a CV apologist or whatever. First of all, CV threads are absolutely allowed as long as they are constructive and discuss the class rather than just complain about it. We've had several that stayed open because people were somewhat civil in them. The problem is that, in most situations, when someone tries to get ANY information about CVs or discuss them in any way, they get absolutely flooded with pure hate and the discussion devolves into insults, personal attacks and arguments. Seriously, every time someone says they enjoy CVs they get nothing but hate and bile - we've all seen it and I see the reports. This is simply not OK. I mean I understand being upset with WG for their choices but vitriol directed at players is simply unacceptable. It really is that simple. People should be able to discuss any class and not be brigaded for having the "wrong" opinion. The reason the CV thread was created initially was because it was impossible for WG staff to keep track of all the different threads being created and they really did want to read what players said about the class. I know it's cool to pretend like WG don't care about their own game but it's also a really silly argument. They obviously do. We might not always agree with all their decisions but they do want their own game to thrive. As such they wanted to be able to read what was being said about the change, but it was genuinely impossible. We had at least 4-5 threads with basically the exact same content being started every day. So the decision was made to merge them. That doesn't mean that it WG didn't read it. They did - they even replied to some of the issues. As far as I know they still take a look at the CV thread now and then. Most forums try to avoid duplication of information. This forum is no different. So what I am saying is, if anyone wants to create a thread and rehash the exact same thing that has been already said ad infinitum on any topic, not just CVs, they will find that their thread gets locked or merged. It's not about supressing information. The moderation team has never been told to supress or censor any CV related discussions so please stop spreading that misinformation. I know all the moderators and I am virtually certain that none of them would agree to something like that. As such, saying that about us is genuinely unfair. I know, cry me a river etc. and I know I can't stop the conspiracies so I am just asking to leave the mod team out of them, please. All the moderation team wants to do is make the forum better and more welcoming. Also, how is a 240+ page thread full of complaints about CVs a good way of "hiding" anything? I mean it's the top thread and has been for a while. Anyone new to the forum will see that before anything else, basically. I would have imagined that simply deleting duplicate threads would have been a far more effective way of supressing anything if that was the intention - which it isn't. tl;dr: CV threads are allowed as long as people don't start insulting each other or if the content discussed has already been covered numerous times.

@HMS_Kilinowski I was never contacted so we didn't div at all. My offer still stands but I am not gonna chase people around to try to help them.

Fun spoiled etc. Locked. If the opposite of Necromancy is Nature Magic, call me a wood pixie or whatever.

Don't promote breaking of rules and, more importantly, don't break said rules. Locked.