Capra76

Not quite. Aigle plus the T6/7 silver ships use the 1929 gun with its 700 m/s muzzle velocity, T8 and onwards (and I think this includes Le Terrible) get the 1934 gun with 840 m/s so AFT might be viable.

The numbers look all over the place to me: torpedo range jumps from 6 km to 9 km (at T4!) back down to 8 then 9 then 8 again; T4/5 130 mm gun fires as fast as the 100 mm (twice as fast as it could IRL) and does 1,900 HE damage, once you get to T6/7 the 138.6 mm gun does 1,400 damage (less than the 100 mm at T2/3), the same gun on Aigle does 2,000; reload time on the guns goes from 5 seconds at T8 to 7s at T9/10; torpedo reload is a constant 90s from T3-8 then drops to 60s at T9 before going back up to 77 s at T10; T10 looks like pure copy + paste from T9, maybe WG should've tried to find another ship further down the line and push T8/9 up to T9/10? Obviously there's lots of balancing to come but the numbers as presented don't really tell us anything.

AFAIK console is a very different game, they only have IIRC 7 tiers and no CV so PC/console merge is years (never) away and in reality isn't going to happen so the idea that this is all driven by Console is questionable at best.

The problem there is the detection range and that the ships have terrible arcs on the turrets, so you need to rush other DD whilst sailing sideways or give up 60% of your firepower whilst you do it plus the ships you easily outgun outspot you by an enormous margin and those that don't can broadly match you in a gunfight and have smoke to run away into if they can't. It's a very niche playstyle, viable late game but who wants to play 20+ games island camping for the one game where that works and if you do why not take Omaha/Dallas/Helena instead? WG have boxed themselves into a corner with Le Terrible, that has good 8 km torpedoes and Aigle (okay 8 km torpedoes) so I can't see WG handing out anything with longer range until T9/10 (and likely not then either).

What I'm saying is that your statement that: ignores the fact that not every ship is as dependent on movement as others. So yeah, BB have limited movement too, but they have 20+ km range on their guns so it's not quite the same as for a class that relies upon movement to use their much shorter ranged weapons, or indeed do the other things they're supposed to be doing. Lets have a look at some numbers, and since I'm not looking for a worst case lets use T9 (what used to be a very strong tier for DD): Lots of overlap there with Kuma top in some important categories, put some more modern torpedoes on her (maybe the type 8 mod.2 off the T6 Hatsuharu) and she'd be top in all categories except speed and stealth, and since movement and stealth are what we're taking away from DD here, then without those things what we're left with is something that is comparable to a T4 cruiser in a T10 game.

I'm not getting those options, possibly because I'm using Firefox?

Works okay on the white version of the page, due to the length I had to write it in Word then copy+paste onto the forum so apologies if that's causing problems for those using the dark version.

Difference is that DD as a class are defined by stealth and movement, once you balance those things out what you're left with is a T4 cruiser in a T10 game.

That sounds like fun...............not.

No Italian tech-tree and we're asking about the Spanish? Dream on.

The only limit CV now face is time, if the game was played until the end of time then he still wouldn't run out of planes.

Who would suffer most from improved secondary guns? Cruisers. Who would benefit most from torpedo buffs? Destroyers. Welcome back to game meta 2015/16, 5 BB every game dodging walls of skill from 5 DD every game with 1 or 2 confused cruisers hiding behind islands wondering what the they were supposed to do in the game.

A bit o/t but do we know how close WG are to finalising the (im)balance? I seem to remember S_O claiming that the T8 premiums were final, so except for a few small tweaks to balance other ships around them is this pretty much it?

The problem I see is one of cost v benefit, as a class CV offer too little benefit back to the surface ships to justify the cost that is imposed on them by their presence in the game.

For those of you who remember the good old pre-nerf fail division days: 2. Umikaze; 3. Wakatake; 4. Isokaze; 5. Isokaze; 6. Isokaze; 7. Isokaze; 8. Isokaze; 9. Isokaze; 10. Isokaze.

The pride of the Royal Navy and highlight of the entire RN DD line, HMS Nonpareil AKA Gadjah Mada.

Most of the major stats for DD are imaginary, it wouldn't be too hard to tweak them to fit any ship into any tier.

So, essentially, WG released the CV rework before it was ready to meet whatever internal deadline they had, now they're rushing the final balancing to meet the deadline for players to sell back the premium ships.

The fundamental problem IMO is the survival rate and time for CV, they live too long and offer too little back to other classes to justify them having a high damage output or influence on the game, but without that what's the point in them?

This, but also why would you want to invest free XP and captain retraining costs into a ship/line when you've no idea where it's going to be in a week's time let alone 6 months from now.

Not unreasonable since IRL something like 10 (or more) DD were built for every BB. In game I think it's best to think about every DD representing a flotilla of ships rather than just the one ship.

I'm not even sure WG know what a balanced CV would look like, I have a hard time imagining it myself.

A bit o/t but it would've been better if the 3 modes cycled hourly (or similar) instead of 2 days for one mode and 1 day each for the others, I missed the assaul mode.

The difference is the reward, you might get smacked in a cruiser for 50% of your HP by a BB or a CV, but in the former case you have the chance to burn him down, or smack a DD for 50% HP, who could one-shot the BB, with CV all you really get is a bit of bonus XP from plane kills.

Not sure I like queueing up for 2 minute battles, it's going to get boring very quickly. Also map makes it hard to spot the torps.