Capra76

This is what scares me. They've designed the whole line around the ability to fire from smoke only to change their mind at the last minute, now their trying to redesign it in 3 days and seem to think they can balance it by adding some kind of worthless garbage consumable like a speed boost or an enhanced damage control consumable. So what's likely is they'll end up with guns that are too small to damage higher tier ships and hulls that get ripped apart by everything. Good going WG.

Does MK not get smoke?

True, but that's a much more recent addition to the game and is much less rigid that CV mirror-MM.

It feels a lot like WG are pandering to the BB captains complaining about fires being OP again.

My original post was to someone seemingly claiming that CV aren't the most influential class in the game, my point being that the fact they need mirror-mm to avoid breaking the game seems to prove that they are.

Sorry, my bad, but the rest of the post stands.

It's strongly implied by the possibility of other consumables, it seems unlikely that WG would give RN CL an extra consumable more than any other ship.

Compare the T7 Kiev and Belfast, 8 guns firing 12 RPM v 12 guns firing 8 RPM, 8% v 9% fire chance. There's a bit more damage per shell but not enough to make a real difference. As I said above, they'll be clones of RU DD but with added citadels and minus the speed, maneuverability and smoke.

My bad, I thought Hatty was going to be T7, not T6. The new Fubuki gets the 4 gun C hull and presumably a much worse torpedo reload. If she keeps her existing gun range then maybe, but.....yeah.

This actually isn't a bad idea, It'll need some work but could be worth considering. I must be very, very drunk.

Are you claiming it isn't because CV are so influential that non-mirror CV is simply unfair as well? Edit: T8 Benson v T10 Gearing; T10 Des Moines v T8 New Orleans, tell me how you think that'll go.

By the looks of it Fubuki will be an absolute dog at T6. It'll get Mutsuki torpedoes (more of them, but presumably with much worse reload), worse concealment, it's slower and less maneuverable. If it gets to keep the range on its guns it might have a marginal role as a long range/invisfire gunboat with AFT but as a torpedo boat it's going to be unplayable with the stock torps and limited with the upgraded ones. Hatsuharu, you'll be relieved to hear, looks like it's going to be even worse, you get an extra gun, a bit more speed and slightly better stealth, but the same godawful T6 torpedoes this time with a T7 grind, oh, and by the way, now you're going to be facing T9 opposition with 50% TPS, so an entire 6 torpedo spread at point blank range will take just over half of an Iowa's health. The good news is that having researched Fubuki you'll almost certainly have its replacement unlocked at T8, but I pity the poor souls who are starting out on the line today.

Are you claiming it isn't because CV are so influential that non-mirror CV is simply unfair as well?

Well, you seemed to be claiming that CV are not the most influential class in the game, in which case I would like you to explain why WG seem to think they are so influential that they require special matchmaking that no other class gets.

Why do CV need mirrored MM?

Posted in the RU discussion thread but I'll re-post here: What's this about RN CL getting a major re-work? Are they getting smoke or not (my guess, probably not)? Per Babykim: "possibly getting Speed Boost, Improved Repair Party, better ballistics, orientation to AP, and may even lose HE" What use an improved repair party if your problem is being citadelled out of existence by everything in the game? Putting the odd fire out a bit quicker isn't really going to help. What use is a speed boost in a cruiser? Are they intended to rush the caps? Better ballistics? Wot? Like the IJN/RU lines but without 203mm guns or armour? AP orientation and may even lose HE? What use is a cruiser that can only fire AP? It might be useful for killing cruisers but it isn't like cruisers need their life made any harder. Sounds like WG have screwed up and are rushing changes through to get the line out in time, incoming disaster predicted. By the sounds of it they're going to end up like clones of RU DD with added citadels but without the speed, maneuverability or smoke. Not good, not good at all.

What's this about RN CL getting a major re-work? Are they getting smoke or not (my guess, probably not)? Per Babykim: "possibly getting Speed Boost, Improved Repair Party, better ballistics, orientation to AP, and may even lose HE" What use an improved repair party if your problem is being citadelled out of existence by everything in the game? Putting the odd fire out a bit quicker isn't really going to help. What use is a speed boost in a cruiser? Are they intended to rush the caps? Better ballistics? Wot? Like the IJN/RU lines but without 203mm guns or armour? AP orientation and may even lose HE? What use is a cruiser that can only fire AP? It might be useful for killing cruisers but it isn't like cruisers need their life made any harder. Sounds like WG have screwed up and are rushing changes through to get the line out in time, incoming disaster predicted. By the sounds of it they're going to end up like clones of RU DD with added citadels but without the speed, maneuverability or smoke. Not good, not good at all.

The best response to a smoke firing cruiser is a spread of torpedoes from a friendly DD. What's that? WG are nerfing DD into the ground again? Er, okay. The best response to a smoke firing cruiser is to grab a cold beer and enjoy the BBQ.

Fixed for you.

Are you saying the statement is wrong?

This is the real problem with them, a DD shouldn't get detected by it but it can heavily limit their movement.

That would be the IJN DD that are about to be nerf-hammered into the ground.

My picks were, aiming for a RN cruiser build that is also usable on Campbeltown: basics of survivability (BFT likely to be of very limited use on CL); last stand (vital DD skill and I suspect that the CL are going to be vulnerable to engine/rudder loss); vigilance (essential skill for ships focused on firing from smoke); demolition expert (basic fire chance is low so this is a significant buff) concealment expert.

So, er, what exactly is meant to counter the Texas?

The whole point about risk is that it is exactly that, risk. If you could always guarantee that you'd get away unharmed then it wouldn't be a risk at all.