Capra76

One of the well known YouTubers who had played the early version suggested that the ships worked fine with smoke, they were just very boring to play.

But the only way to get any sort of RU cruiser line into the game was to use a lot of paper ships, I don't see the point of building a separate RN CA line just to showcase 3 not particularly good ships if the rest is paper or already in the game. I was coounting a T1 as a CL although you didn't include any in your post.

But is a line that consists of 4 paper ships and 3 more that would be equally at home in the CL line really worth while.

Interesting idea, but how does it affect the points and contribute to victory? Are the strategic points the equivalent of caps that are held by whoever manages to advance their front line beyond them? Also the problem I see is this encourages players to spread out over as wide a front as possible, which might not be an optimal strategy for other game reasons.

Just a few thoughts: the kind of player who enables replays then submits them to you is probably not representative of the average IJN DD player; we do know that the IJN lower tier DD are seal-clubber favourites; nobody sails T3/4 BB for fun, so the players are more likely to be noobs who don't have replay enabled anyway; CV are by definition not going to be replay material; so it's not that surprising that you get half of your entries to a low tier replay contest from one of two classes likely to be played by experienced players with replay enabled who might send you content. Even if your point were true you also conveniently forget that DD may also be much more likely to have terrible games where they get shelled to pieces in the first 2 minutes whilst trying to cap, but those of course do not get sent into replay contests.

I doubt it really matters whether the Counties go at 7 or 8, Surrey is a county variant anyway, so whether you call the T8 ship Surrey and use those stats or Kent and sprinkle some fairy dust on its armour it amounts to much the same thing. I couldn't find Trainspite's tech tree proposal thread at first but I have now, and he has the same basic problem I mentioned, for a full line you have 3 real ships, 4 paper ones and 3 more that would be equally at home in the CL line. Maybe follow the IJN DD split model and start at T5 (as I've just noticed VC381 suggests).

I have to question whether a RN CA line is possible, there just weren't enough of them built to justify it. The York and County classes would fit in at T7/8 but the only other heavy class was the 7.5" gun Hawkins, and that's just an up-gunned 1910 Town class (i.e. the T2 Weymouth). Apart from those the only other ships that mounted anything other than 6" guns were some of the late amoured cruisers, but those were basically 19th century ships that were closer to some of the pre-dreadnought battleships than anything else and would be incredibly difficult to implement in the game. Could you really create a line out of 3 ships? Are there even paper designs around for T9/10?

My fear is that the line is already late and has now seemingly gone back for another major redesign, the developers must surely be under a lot of pressure to get the ships out sooner rather than later and that is rarely a recipe for a good outcome. Lets hope they get it right this time.

Isn't that what a DD is supposed to do, sink un-escorted BB who are foolish enough to allow DD to get to within 2 km of them? Also KM secondary guns make YOLO very painful against them.

The Dm Donskoi and Moskva are the two obvious ones with 16/18 km base detection range, good turning circles but lousy rudders, losing the concealment module is less of a penalty for them than other CA and with the rudder upgrade they'll be able to out-turn the Des Moines. Thing is, that's a massive buff for the two best performing cruisers at their tier, which also happen to be Russian, co-incidence? A case could probably be made for Roon and Hindenburg, but it's less clear cut, apart from that I'd guess everything else would chose concealment.

I don't think it's unreasonable to comment on what we've seen so far, maybe the developers will go back to the drawing board and make some fundamental changes, but if they don't then things aren't promising.

There's a key difference, Marie Antoinette was actually talking a fair amount of sense. The price of bread was regulated in 18th century France, so when supplies of flour were low bakers used it to make cake instead of bread which could then be sold for a higher price, so the statement actually means let them eat cake for the price of bread. Swapping concealment for a faster rudder shift, er..... yeah. Edit: Interestingly there is no evidence that MA (or indeed any other great princess) ever uttered the phrase and strong grounds for doubting she ever did, in fact most likely the phrase is a work of fiction.

Minekaze averages 80,000 damage?

Madness, that's like fitting a Montana with the guns off a Wyoming and expecting it to be competitive.

That's the base value, but I suspect that most if not almost all T8-10 BB captains are running vigilance plus the target acquisition upgrade, so the 20 km torps are actually detected at 3.75 km, which gives over 20 seconds reaction time.

Royal Navy Special function: Rum ration Effect: for the rest of the battle players shut the f*** up about tea!

I'll go out on a limb and say that I don't think the cruiser challenge will make a great deal of difference to the numbers.

The thing is the torpedo soup was a symptom of something else that was wrong with the game (BB being massively OP against CA), so when WG nerfed the IJN DD they made BB easier to play leading to the current plague of them and lack of CA. You may not like the torpedo soup but it did at least place some limits on BB numbers. A DD hard-cap IMO wouldn't make a great deal of difference at the moment, but if it would then it would be another buff for BB making the situation even worse.

Why? I'm curious why you're banging on about a hard-cap for DD when BB numbers have exploded out of control? It's not as though DD numbers are problematic at the moment, BB on the other hand..........

Best bet is go and play 5-7 games in co-op with the lowest tier ship you have, make sure you don't do any damage to friendlies (collisions are a big problem) and you should be free. In one of the results screens it does say how many games as a TK you have left. Personally I do think that the criteria for being a TK have gone a bit too far. I refuse to play in random whilst labelled a TK (if I have to spend my whole time worrying about colliding with other ships that can seriously hamper my play and I don't want to be a liability to my team), but having to play 7 games in co-op for doing ~ 5,000 team damage seems a bit harsh.

The change in BB power is very noticeable as you move from T4 to T5, especially with the current matchmaking. As a T4 your main worry is the occasional Kongo, everything else is manageable. Once you hit T5 and start finding yourself in frequent T7 matches, then everything is dangerous to you, so you go from worrying about 1 or 2 ships to all 5.

If that was a sanctioned release then it suggests they are pretty close to finalised. Think I'll give this line a miss.

I'm fine with the BB counter CA doctrine so long as something else counters BB, but with CV almost non-existent and DD getting nerfs with every patch I'd say the justification for BB being able to one-shot CA no longer exists.

So a ship that's only ever going to work if there's a cyclone in the game, the other 90% of the time you may as well go AFK.

Could be a big buff for the Soviet cruisers, who've got terrible rudders and concealment, swapping detection range for the ability to dodge incoming fire might be a worthwhile trade for them.