Capra76

So you're deliberately sabotaging your game, his game and everybody else on your team's game for "entertainment". What a guy.

Also he forgets that DD torps are launched from 7 km away and are only really effective against BB that have yet to install WSAD hax, a good CV player can devastate destroyers and cruisers.

You'll usually be lucky to get one with a CA, with a RN BB you can strip off ~ 90% of the AA firepower in a couple of salvos. I think a change or two might be required.

My thoughts, as of today, this is a map that almost nobody knows how to play. Assume a south spawn, typically the team will head to "cover" at A, which usually means them hiding behind rocks contributing nothing whilst the red team take B and C - loss, the strategy only works if the red team are equally potato and go for C. The correct strategy is to send one small ship (ideally DD, RN CL if necessary, consider not capping if neither are available) to A to nuisance cap and delay enemy advance before escaping through the north east channel, the main force should head towards C, which gives them clear fields of fire onto both B + C thus dominating 2/3 caps. The red team may take C briefly,. but any ship trying to hold it will die very quickly, if the main enemy force has also gone towards C "cover" they have no influence on B, so long as your team don't lose the will to live you should win.

6 x BB more powerful than 1 CV? Much balance.

But then those players tend to division with very good CV players when they aren't playing CV themselves. If you look at their solo stats they can still do 70% - 80% in a CV, but in their other ships the drop down to 60% give or take.

Yes and no. I'd say the problem is at higher tiers there are enough okay players to make the idiots stand out, so at lower tiers a good player can win the game for his team, at higher tiers the idiots lose the game for their team.

Co-incidentally the last tier where BB have significant weaknesses.

KM T7-10 all have 76,800 DPM, if they fit the T9 upgrade module this rises to just over 90,000, in contrast: Isokaze: 92,854. V170: 90,857. Clemson: 127,996 (even more with the Mk 9). Izyaslav: 100,149. And for a bit of fun: V-25: 100,421 Umikaze: 68,000.

Farming damage from weekend players to make his numbers look good. He's a CatPadder.

I agree, ship handling, stealth, torpedo range/speed/detection are all as important, I took that into consideration when forming my opinion. DPM only becomes decisive at T9/10 when the KM are still putting out T4 numbers and Shima pulls ahead of Gearing.

Well, kind of yes and no. The problem is that the IJN have been heavily nerfed, but they're still the most popular DD line at higher tiers so WG have a dilema, the stats say they're bad ships, but the player numbers say otherwise. How do you balance the ships against other DD without getting a return to torpedo soup? Make the torpedoes great again and it's back to 5 a side "walls of skill", leave them as they are and they're just not very good. US Fubuki > Farragut, by a long way. Akatsuki > Mahan by a distance. Kagero > Benson, but getting closer. Fletcher > Yugumo, torpedoes are close, but speed and handling make it an easy win for Fletcher. Shima > Gearing DPM goes to Shima, everything else is close. KM Fubuki = EG - pros and cons to both. Akatsuki = LM - same as above. Kagero > Z-23 - close, but concealment and handling win the day. Yugumo > Z-46 - DPM and concealment win. Shima > Z-52, with F3 DPM is nearly double, even with 93.3 it's still well ahead. So only Fletcher stands out as better than the IJN equivilent, but that's very much the peak of the line and it's a long grind to get there. Overall I'd say that the IJN are still the best torpedo boats, it's just they're not that much better and being overly reliant on a hit or miss weapon doesn't make up for their weaknesses elsewhere.

EG is the "balanced" T6 ship, if T-61 is better than it (a lot better), then it's not balanced. Why not compare it to a Fletcher, or a Z46? It can fail division into T9 games and TBH I think you need to go up to T9 before you can say that it's overmatched (compared to the T8 Z23 It's got about the same gun power, more torpedo DPM (but less range), better stealth and handling but less speed and health). I mean really? Arguing for balance on the basis of ships two or even three tiers higher? How does Belfast stack up compared to T9 Neptune or T10 Minotaur? MK v Dm. Don? Imp. Nik v Fuso or Nagato? Gremy v Minsk or Kiev? Comparison to same tier: EG: same Farra: + 10.5 s Fubuki: - 3.59 s Hatty: - 3.21 s Shin/Gney/Anshan: -7.5 s Gallant: +4.5 s. Comparison to T8: Z23 - same Benson/LY: + 18.21 s Kagero: - 3.59 s Akizuki: +10.25 s Kiev: +3.94 s Oggy: + 13.5 s So only behind the USN and Gallant at it's own tier, it's only when you get to T8 it starts to look a bit slow (and even then it's no worse than Z23 and better than Kagero, in fact looking at the stats overall it pretty much is Kagero). T61 has the stealth advantage to decide whether to engage Farra/Mahan/Blys or not (and also Benson but for the T8 concealment module), more HP than the T7 Mahan, the firepower to melt IJN and the HP as well, better gun handling than RU T6/7, the same firepower as the T6, better stealth and ship handling than the T7 (plus way better torps obviously). Well, fair enough. My opinion based on my reading of the stats is that it would be a strong T8 ship, on balance a bit better overall than Z-23, losing out to Benson/Oggy/Kiev as a gunboat but well ahead with torpedoes, very similar overall to Kagero. As a tier 6, hugely overpowered.

Really? +20,000 HE DPM and +39,600 AP DPM compared to EG. The 22.5 second traverse is the same as all KM DD up to T9 and is better than anything she can face non-US except Kiev, Gallant & Blys and even then you're talking about 4 seconds. It's not great but it's not bad compared to RU/IJN. It has the same torps as EG, which are decent for T6, but it has a 22 second quicker reload and most importantly it has the stealth and agility to use them effectively. 600 m better than EG 0.4 seconds off the EG rudder and 90 m off the turning circle. It loses 1 knot speed, I don't know about the size but the improved detection and handling should reduce the amount of damage it takes and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up smaller and less prone to AP pens as well. It's basically EG with far more firepower, better handling, better stealth and in return it gives up 1 knot in speed and 1,800 HP.

Wait and see what T-61 is like when it comes out, at the moment it's looking like it'll be Belfast levels of OP.

The other thing I've noticed is that if a cruiser dies in the first 5 minutes no-one cares, it's the ones that get pushed to the border trying to stay alive whilst the rest of the team throws their ships away that get the worst flak.

Aotearas answered this best, the maps and modes are as much part of the game's balance as the ships themselves, so there's nothing wrong with one map favouring one class or line over another so long as other maps reverse the situation. This isn't so say that improvements can't be made, but if every map were to offer an equal challenge to all ships, wouldn't that mean that every map was the same?

I don't see how being able to select map/game mode would work. The problem is the different classes would all want to play different games, so you'd end up with 12 v 12 BB in standard battle on Tears of the Desert, all the IJN DD on Ocean, all the other DD playing domination on North and all the cruisers trying to avoid the former and find the latter.

.Nothing, I'm just suggesting that we start a thread to discusss the subject.

It's on Reddit, I wondered if it was worth starting a thread on this forum for the same purpose.

Is it worth starting a new thread for that?

Any ideas what colour for what league?

My guess is it'll be feast or famine depending upon the MM. Domination with lots of higher tier DD to beat up = profit; standard battle against lower tier DD lite teams, not so much.

Too many ships, not enough games in each. I'd suggest that you play a minimum of 25 random games in each ship before you progress to the next tier. The US T3 & T4 cruisers are nice ships and a good place to learn the game, that's where I would start.