dasCKD

So basically if we want BBs to come forwards, we have to nerf all other classes into obsolescence. I see.

So you have. I suppose you can always try switching battleship lines. The IJN BBs have always had really good accuracy from tier 6 upwards. If you can't get results even with them though, then it would probably be better if you switched to another class until they revert the changes.

The thing is overpens at long ranges tend to be caused by different things when compared to overpens at shorter ranges. At longer ranges, it's usually a matter of your shells hitting the bow or aft armor instead of the inside of a ship. At shorter ranges, sometimes you just over match their citadels to an extent that your shots go clean through. You can prevent this using various methods. You can fire at them when they're slightly angled instead of broadside on, so your shells are given longer to detonate. You can aim slightly below the waterline so the shells won't overpen as they'll have less penetration power. You can probably also try to penetrate them bow on by firing into the armor of their decks when they're bow on.

It might, but at least it would also prevent cruisers just randomly exploding 2 minutes in the game due to 3 citadel hits. Cruisers should be able to minimize BB damage at longer ranges by maneuvering anyways. This will mean that a battleship would do more consistent damage instead of erratic all or nothing salvos which I believe is overall a good thing. I suggested this in tandem with point 4: improve battleship stealth. This means that cruisers won't be able to kite unless the battleship keeps shooting or the destroyers or carriers keep up a scouting formation to keep the BBs lit up. If it's just a cruiser against a battleship, the battleship can just sneak right up to the cruiser and blow them out of the water at closer ranges. Ultimately I agree with you that we can't stop camping, but we can at least disincentivizing it by introducing more weapons and mechanics which makes the back of the map a less safe place to be.

I personally avoid BBs by going up to the high tiers where the BBs are mostly owned by experienced players and the ratio of BBs to CAs in queue are only about 2:1 instead of 20:1.

Rhys, now that you're here: can we please get some of Omni's CV players on the line? It seems the OP won't budge on the pro thing, so we should just let the 70% Tier 8 WR CV players tell us what they think of the Bogue in AS.

If you wrote proper English, then maybe I'd have less of an issue understanding. Your title is "nerf the usa CV's" (grammatically incorrect, it's CVs. The apostrophe is a contraction and CVs, as in CV in plural, isn't a contraction. This should also be noted by other players who insists on writing "CVs" incorrectly) and not nerf USN fighters. Fighters were presented as evidence that USN CVs are overpowered and just about everyone has explained why this is absurd. I have attempted to maintain a civil tone throughout these responses but quite frankly your obtuse prattling has become extremely grating. I would also like to see evidence of this alleged "ppl wich can read" who agrees with you as every poster on this forum, to the best of my memory, disagrees with your assertion. I have to admit, I didn't know what GIYF stood for so I suppose I should thank you for teaching me something new. Nevertheless, shall we pull the initial post back for reference? Not the USN fighters are overpowered. Not the USN load outs are overpowered. Your exact words were the USN CVs were overpowered. The entire ship, and all the planes on her. Especially the tier 5 one. Before you belittle others for their lack of reading comprehension, it might be good for you to make sure that what you're writing reflects what you are trying to bring across. This will usually means that you won't have to get angry at the rest of us for not being able to read your mind. Two of us on this thread and countless others have made do with less. You complain about a 2:1 fighter disadvantage. The Lexington, a CV only useful in her strike configuration, has to deal with a 2:0 disadvantage in fighter squad numbers. 3:0 if the Shokaku is more of a [edited]than usual. Incorrect use of the word hardly. You should not be belittling anyone over their command of the English language. As previously noted, statistical trends does not support this conclusion. It, in fact, contradicts it. That's due to the way that AA mechanics works in the game. A squad is treated as a whole unit and not as separate units for simplicity in game design. USN and IJN fighters themselves are actually very close in terms of raw numbers with the IJN leading in all characteristics (albeit only slightly). Mitsubishi A6M2 HP: 1210 DPS: 44 Grumman F4F-4 HP: 1090 DPS: 43 You can't expect a group with 4 fighters to go up against 12 fighters and win. Not even the Saipan could do that and she is arguably the most OP CV in the entire game. If strafing is doing too little damage, then strafe from the side and that'll do more damage to the planes. You can also use your fighter to scout ahead and then vector your strike aircraft away from the fighters so you can drop in peace. There is indeed no balance between a balanced Zuihou and a AS Bogue. The balanced Zuihou so comically outperforms the Bogue (in AS) that it drains away any semblance of comedy to be had in tormenting a griefer. I assume that you are talking about the C hull upgrade. The C hull improves maneuverability and AA defense over the B hull. If anything, the B hull is pointless and redundant. I agree with the fact that CVs are especially unbalanced at the lower tiers, and that removing AS from the Bogue and Independence would probably do a lot to fix it, but I can't see how this would lead you to conclude that USN CVs are overpowered. They are not. The best a AS CV can realistically do is to completely shut down the enemy CV (something that they won't be able to do if you took our advice instead of getting in your little line to throw tomatoes at your caricature of the USN CVs) which means that at that point the CVs basically vanishes. It becomes a 11 vs 11 match. A AS CV is like a battleship whose shells can only incapacitate guns and can't damage other battleships or a destroyer who can shoot torpedoes out of the water but can't do any damage themselves. In a game where players are matched up against the exact same number of other players, the best such a ship can hope to be is redundant. I have only ever been locked down once, in my Zuiho, before I learnt what to do to outplay such pointless tactics. You are the one who can't seem to read. We are not saying that USN fighters aren't strong. We are not saying that USN fighters won't defeat an IJN fighter squad. We are saying that the fighter strength doesn't matter if the CV becomes a liability to their team which, in the case of AS CVs, they almost always turn out to become. Bombers are a side story? Bombers are the main reason you play CVs, the fighters are the side shows here. If the BBs stays with the CAs, then just bomb their DDs. Sniping DDs is the favorite pastime of high tiered CVs. Your only evidence towards the premise that bombers are sideshows is that the enemy team can play in a way to minimize the CV threat. This is something that doesn't involve the USN CV. At all. The Bogue can launch 0 planes and an enemy team that plays intelligently will still invalidate CV bombing runs. When your only line of argument to exclude bombers from the discussion of CV balance between the nations hinges on the AA firepower of surface ships, it is only natural that the responses excludes your caveat. You also claim that IJN CVs always loses the the USN CVs. Once more:

You can take the AA range mod instead of the fighter mod so that you can stop the enemy CV from camping yours (A Zuihou can have 6km range AA whilst plane detection range is commonly cited as 8km). You can focus your shipborne AAs so the enemy CV will bleed fighters. You can also use the range modded AA to stop the enemy CV from noticing your bombers exiting your ship. You can expend your dive bomber and use that as bait for the enemy's fighters. You can sail with your fleet to stop the enemy CV from being able to camp you effectively and also to use friendly ships' AA auras to create a bombing lanes for your planes. I played with CVs with 0 fighters. Nada. I've never had problems with enemy CVs trying to camp my ship because they just keep feeding me more planes and XP with free plane kills. The forum disagrees with you because the claim that USN CVs are overpowered has no statistical basis. You can say that they have more powerful fighters, but if those powerful fighters can't translate into better battlefield performance then they can't be correctly called overpowered.

USN CVs aren't overpowered. The Bogue however is annoying. If we removed AS from the Bogue then they'll perform far better than they are right now. A Zuihou has 1 fighter. A strike Bogue has 0 and I play the Bogue in strike ever since I unlocked the loadout. Here are my stats on her: Keep in mind that I am no means an exceptional CV player. AS Bogues aren't powerful, they're a pest. You just need to learn to deal with them because WG has made it quite clear by their actions that they won't be doing anything about it. P.S. I do want faster torpedoes on the IJN line, at least from t8 and up. It's really annoying when you have to hunt ships that can outrun your torps. That's nothing to do with the USN line however.

I think the range for the radar and the hydroacoustics should be displayed as a circle on the minimap like gun ranges and detection ranges. That's all. It's a short post, sue me.

The point of using radar and hydro is to spot targets you can't actually see. It's rather useful to see, for example, if your radar entirely covers a cap an enemy ship is inside of.

Well we need to hunt some cruisers as well ;). I met a Minotaur earlier today, she was still rocking with smoke though she no longer has HE considering her ammunition choice against destroyers. Maybe WG is going back on the RN cruiser smoke thing. Not really on topic though.

Tier 1 --> Orlan Tier 2 --> Strozhevoi Tier 3 --> St. Louis Tier 4 --> Langley Tier 5 --> Kamikaze Tier 6 --> Fuso Tier 7 --> Saipan Tier 8 --> Amagi I don't have any ships on tier 10, and neither of my tier 9s really can be called great.

I would have no problem with decreasing fire chance/damage on battleships if we were compensated in other ways (like increase to total superstructure HP on ships/higher HE alpha) but the problem right now is that the only way cruisers can engage both camping battleships and battleships at a safe distance whilst dealing damage is by setting them aflame.

Why not is something that can easily be answered by the fact that WG, and most of us, wants new players. For the most part, newer players face newer players with similar skills as them minus the seal clubbers. A limitless skill ceiling would mean that we create a power gap between new players that only widens the further the game goes on. As newer players see the widening disadvantage that they'll inherently have, less newer players will enter the game and the existing player base will just bleed old players (as an inevitable consequence of time) until the servers becomes ghost towns. I don't want a limitless skill ceiling. Even with the current system, I still think that having a better trained captain is already a massive advantage for the one that has the edge that is too much. In this regards, I much prefer Armored Warfare's system where anything you'll face past tier 5 would have a fully specced commander and no commander will have more than 5 skills. This means that no captain will simply be better, just different. Nevertheless, this is the system we have right now and we shouldn't change it in neither the way proposed by Armored Warfare or the OP. Players in these games, at least for those who don't play competitively, should be encouraged to keep playing to explore new content and to enjoy pitting themselves against other humans who are just as determined to win as they are. They shouldn't be encouraged to endlessly grind one ship with one captain just so they can use that captain to stomp on the newbies with a captain with 50+ skill points (exaggerating obviously).

"What is a cruiser? A miserable pile of citadels. But enough talk...Have at you!"

Whilst personally I agree that Premium ships (exception being the Krappy Krim and the Prinz) are noticeably superior to their tech tree counterparts from tier 6 onward, I don't agree that regular ships being weaker than their premium is the reason people don't find them fun. I personally sortie with my ARP Myoko all the time, despite her being for all intents and purposes a Myoko, because I find her enjoyable. I wish I still had my Amagi, so I could go out and terrorize cruisers and other battleships in randoms. The problem, I believe, is a mechanical one. The goal of WoWs, at least discounting the competitive players, are to make it to the gems at the top of the tech trees and in WoWs, a captain is pivotal to the performance of a ship. A ship without a captain is so significantly weaker that in the highly dangerous higher tiers, a well trained captain is obligatory if you would want any level of success. This depends on the ship class of course, as an Amagi without a forth skill will suffer less than a Tashkent without a forth skill. Nevertheless, that captain is forced to move with the ship. The issue is that game mechanics conflict with the desire to maintain an enjoyable ship. If you want to keep a silver ship effective, you either have to retrain a new captain for your silver ship or retrain a new captain for the higher tier ship. Neither is fun because you'll be costing your team more games than you would with a more powerful version of your ship. I think that far more people will play more non-t10 silver ships if WG can find a way to make the captain system so less restrictive. I plan to write a post on it later, but those are my thoughts on this matter.

Very well then. Though I can't imagine the kinds of rage that guided missiles will spawn in threads.

Much obliged >_<

Most nuclear weapons, even in the modern era, are strategic and therefore uses a ballistic path.

Submarine development has been interesting, especially on the pacific theater with subs such as the I 402. The roles are also insanely different between nations with Germans using their submarines mainly as attack weapons whilst the Japanese used theirs in recon, transportation, and seaplane launching roles. This makes them extremely difficult to incorporate into the game in its current states. In the case of most ships, upper tiers usually scales by HP pools, armor, speed, AA, and gun effectiveness. Submarines might have increase up the tiers in terms of speed as technology improved and they could possibly do so with dive time as well if WG decides to use Steel Ocean's model of submarine operation. They could also increase in torpedo damage. Effectiveness of these changes are dubious however, and I am quite concerned in regards to how WG decides to handle this especially since submarines with any speed at all to speak off that won't be completely useless in turning the tides of battles didn't really appear until late Cold War era IIRC (not sure, mostly studied Space Race personally).

YES! All torpedoes should have the detection range of the Moskva! Also, battleships shells travels too slow, and cruisers can dodge those shells! We need to put rail guns on all BBs from tier 5 onwards. Rail gun technology was created by the Germans in WW1 and I heard on a forum somewhere that every battleship from WW1 onwards had those rail guns installed and ruled the waves until the evil carriers swooped in with their undodgable torps and stole all the rail guns from the BBs!

Everyone knows how insanely OP destroyers and cruisers are. Cruisers melts battleships in seconds with no risk, and destroyers fire torpedoes that are completely undodgable! We need to nerf subs right now! Give them the same detection range as the Moskva!

It's not fun for the cruisers either. It's not fun trying to whittle down a target that can end you in one salvo. it's fun to take half the life off a DD in one expertly aimed salvo or to annihilate a battleship with torpedoes. HE spamming on a bow on target isn't fun, it's the only thing a cruiser can do against a battleship threat.

Torpedoes too OP, BB secondaries are useless, BB guns can't track subs, remove DDs and subs from game NAO!