dasCKD

Not really. Stalingrad is a radar platform with a strong deck armor that allows her to remain in important map positions and she can still deal significant damage without needing to lean on citadel hits whilst also being a good brawler as her incredible precision allows her to disable enemy guns and her improved ricochet angles allows her to slip in citadel hits that would normally not be able to get in. Slava is a ship that is eclipsed in DPM by all of the tier X battleships, has one of the worst survivability of her tier peers, and can't function effectively at close ranges. She's good at longer ranges, but her turret rotation isn't fast enough to snap shots when people give you broadsides and people are inherently very cautious around Slavas which can't be said about the Stalingrad. I have fun with my rail guns, and Stalingrad is just far better on the balance.

If you are considering a choice between Slava and something, pick the other ship. The Slava is a ship that essentially needs the enemy to feed you citadels. The wariness people have around Slavas in combination with her awful close ranged performance makes her thoroughly unpleasant to play.

She can do OK thanks to her good gun velocity, decent range, and very strong torpedo rushes. In many maps, it can be very easy to rack up very high damage numbers if people rush you with the assumption that they can one-shot the Hipper. Now she does require a decent amount of game knowledge to play well which often means you need to do very counter-intuitive things like give BBs like the Vlad or the North Car your full broadside when on approach, but otherwise she performs perfectly adequately. Her long ranged hydro combined with good gun velocity makes her competent at killing destroyers despite her lower HE DPM. A large part of this is the fact that I am comparing Hipper to her contemporaries. Charles Martel is good at setting fires and her reload booster can be strong, but her high shells and her gigantic citadel makes her an easy target for enemies. Edinburgh is awful, useful only for her stealth radar. Baltimore is slow, clumsy, and lacks heavy torpedoes to kill enemy ships that approach. 155 Mogami is very strong against destroyers and cruisers, but can't adequately handle battleships with thicker skins. Hipper is far from the best, but she is also a rather decent ship.

Last time I grinded her, she was OK. She's kind of been powercrept as a long ranged spammer and close range torpedo jouster by the Italians, but I'd be lying if I called the high tiered German cruisers bad.

Yeah, no she isn't. She just isn't. She might have the heaviest torpedo broadside of any of the tier Xs, but that's practically useless if those torpedoes can't hit anything. Her torpedo speed is pretty good, but her torpedo concealment is so high and her torpedo reload is so long that she basically functions only really to flood an area with torpedoes which Zao and Yoshino, a pair of cruisers, does far better. If we're leaving tier Xs, then there's Benham at tier 9 with 16 torpedoes that reloads literally over a minute faster than the Shimakaze does with a disadvantage in a 10.5 km torpedo range but with a massive boon in a 300 meter better torpedo concealment. If we're talking pure alpha alone, even the Asashio technically outputs more than the Shimakaze and, unlike the Shima, the Asashio actually has usable 20 km torpedoes though obviously those torpedoes have other detriments. Before the Halland, I suppose it could be argued that the Shima is a superior torpedo boat to the Gearing and YY, as she does have a stronger alpha strike. Those two have far more reliable torpedoes that reload faster however, so it's a bit of a trade-off. Halland though? Her torpedoes are lightning fast, almost never misses, reload just a hair over 1 minute instead of the Shima's nearly 3, and reach out to 15 km. I'm not going to really argue against the point with the Daring, she is probably the strongest of the tier X DDs. What does it mean to be 'good' at being an all rounder? The Gearing has decent HE DPM, but her shell lobes high and she sits high in the water which makes her an easy target for other destroyers. The YY sits low in water, but her gun performance is mediocre with US alpha and arcs but with Russian reloads. Neither has particularly stellar concealment, both are slow, and both are rather meh at most things except torpedoing ships at long range which, and this has already been covered, the Halland does better. The Halland is a better all rounder than either with decent guns, very good AA, and excellent torpedo parameters. Even if the Halland wasn't in here, the Grozhevoi is a better all rounder than either the Gearing and YY. The Gearing's been powercrept to hell. The YY, at least, still has her annoying radar. Using a Kleber as an open water gunboat is like using her as an inferior cruiser. She's good at not penning targets and setting a few fires. Just bring a Smolensk next time. The Kleber works best as an ambush destroyer, blasting down destroyers and cruisers alike, which she can really only do if she's in a game with no carrier and ideally on a flank where she has a destroyer to spot for her. She's good at what she does, but what she does isn't particularly useful in a lot of circumstances. Fun, but limited. After the fire nerfs that the BBs have been baying for, Harugumo is indeed the last proper gun destroyer thanks to her HE pen that places her as something of a cruiser. But I can. The Grozhevoi is probably the good all rounder DD with excellent speed, moderately small profile, and good performance all round. Her heal keeps her in the game and whilst her torpedoes are notably inferior to the Gearing's in damage (minor issue), range (huge disadvantage), and reload (small difference), her guns outstrips the Gearing in just about every single characteristic. Her significantly faster speed, good gun performance, and decent torpedoes make her just better than the Gearing in most circumstances. The Khabarovsk is best at succumbing to battleship AP and dying early in the game, wasting a tier X DD slot. Halland I covered already. That's not really my point though. My point was to compile the list below. Shimakaze Gearing Yueyang Khabarovsk Next to Halland Grozhevoi Kleber Harugumo Daring There are nearly as many destroyers in the game which have no area in which they excel compared to destroyers with a clear area where they do excel. The Z-52 isn't the worst tier X destroyer, that dubious dishonor goes to the Khabarovsk. The Shima has been powercrept as a torpedo boat. The YY has bad DPM in both her torpedoes and her guns. The Khaba is literally worth less in my eyes than any of the tier VIII destroyers, and the Grozhevoi arguably shouldn't even be on the second list considering what she's good at is being kind of good at everything which also describes Halland and Daring both of which are quite clearly superior destroyers. I would put the Z-52 right next to the Gearing nowdays as unremarkable and meh and at least the Z-52 can fight for caps.

Not to worry, no harm done

No, I meant what I said. Swedish destroyers are slow. I did not misspeak, I wasn't talking about their torpedoes. I talked about their torpedo's speed in the exact same sentence. Also, for reference, sound propagates at around 1.5 kilometers per second underwater compared to the relatively sedate 343 meters per second in air meaning that no, the Swedish torpedoes do not break the sound barrier, not in air and certainly not in water.

I have recently grinded out the German DD line again for more research points, and so I am quite thoroughly acquainted with the German destroyer line. The problem with the German destroyers have never been the fact that their torpedoes misses targets by a hair. German torpedoes have decent concealment and good speed, which leads to many hits and few close evasions. The problem with German destroyers have never been that, as there are far larger problems with the destroyers. I would like to note that this was done prior to the HE penetration improvement. German destroyers are both slow and have short ranged torpedoes. One or the other is not a problem. The French destroyers used to be a really good torpedo boat line before the nerf despite their short torpedoes because they can easily get into optimum locations to send their torpedoes flying into their targets. The Swedish destroyers are excellent torpedo boats despite their slow speed because their torpedoes have such excellent reach with such great speed that they can use their torpedoes at a significantly better range. When preventing a push, I have found that German DDs push up massive damage numbers whereas operating as a team scout for a standstill means I get no damage at all despite the fact that I would still be landing torpedo hits if I was in a Swedish, French, or high tiered Japanese destroyer. An improvement here can be either giving the German DDs 5 - 8 knots better speed or putting 2-3 km onto their torpedo range, with probably a reload or a damage nerf to keep the destroyer balanced. Their hydroacoustic works great if the enemy is either an idiot or you managed to pin them into the cap using allies. It is a diminishing resource however and can screw you over if you're in a match where you're forced to concede caps and recontest often or a match that there is a carrier inside of. Having the short duration British smoke for the German DDs with many charges would both allow them to potentially use their long lasting hydro in multiple engagements making them more flexible whilst also improving their resistance against carriers which is always a good thing to have on a destroyer. Their guns just aren't very good. The guns have poor DPM and mediocre lobes for the standards of most destroyers which means that even up close, you can quite easily miss enemy destroyers and, in a destroyer fight, every single salvo counts. Honestly, I don't know how to fix this without making the German DDs completely broken with the HE penetration buff. If they have good DPM, excellent gun velocity, and good accuracy then we'll just have more Harugumos and I still despise that destroyer. It's why I think my first two suggestions are better. The problem I have with magnetic torpedoes is that it is yet another convolution mechanic in a game already crawling with them. We are introducing more complexity with very little depth, and so I see little purpose in introducing the magnetic torpedoes at all. Maybe when the submarines come into the game and magnetic torpedoes can hit them at any depth, I might find the idea to be more usable then.

Forget in-game immersion, my immersion in reality is slipping from not being able to parse professional developers and decision makers being this inept and useless at managing their own game.

Perhaps one day, we'll get missile cruisers so we can get our revenge on CVs, eh El2aZeR? Meh, who am I kidding. I'd be long dead before Weegee gives CVs counterplay.

Utterly awful. I don't understand why Weegee thinks the solution to the malignant cancer that is the current state of carriers is to make carriers even more proficient at tormenting surface ships. This seems like the kind of solution that follows a decision to reduce the detection range of destroyers to 0 km, not a decision to make destroyers marginally more difficult to find. Edit: Maybe Weegee should just do that. Make destroyers impossible for a carrier to spot. They clearly can't balance between the two classes, so maybe stopping the two from even being able to interact unless the destroyer wants to make use of their mostly useless AA is the best solution.

Looks fine, clear, and easier to manage. With everything in one spot, there's less UI latency to deal with.

She's still large and comparatively unmanuverable. She will almost certainly also receive an armor buff. Quite frankly, the Kitikaze needs many things to work. If I was given my way, I would give her the Hayate's turrets in some modernized mount, significantly improved AA, and deep water torpedoes in the style of the Pan-Asians to stop her from murdering green destroyers and far faster and stealthier torpedoes so she can actually work from cruiser ranges before she can be even a functional tier X cruiser. None of that is likely to happen though.

For 9-12k damage usually, with salvos that reload every 144 seconds. Quite frankly, I would rather her get 15 km fast deep water torpedoes and improved guns. As is, she is a meme and tier X is not a tier you can afford to meme in.

Just now? The forum and reddit was burning! Yeah, those torpedoes are just about the worst torpedoes to have ever been put in game. Sub 60 knots, 1.9 detection, lackluster damage. Even Japanese 65 knot torpedoes are easy to dodge because of the spotting range, these torpedoes will be close to useless. Memeworthy, but not good.