Admiral_H_Nelson

For "future proofing" of course. If you intend to progress your trained cruiser captain up through the tiers (as many people do) then this is preparation for the higher tiers. See the section "High-Tier US/IJN Cruisers" in post #1 in the excellent thread by Kurbain; "Guide to Captain Skills Distribution in 0.5.3" http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/44550-guide-to-captain-skills-distribution-in-053/

Correect me if I am wrong (and I am sure that people will!), but isn't the problem that Pensacola had a tall mast in real life to give it an advantage in detecting enemy warships - AN ADVANTAGE WHICH IS UNUSED IN WoWS. Wargaming could just take the part of the mast that is used for in-game spotting mechanics and ignore the rest - thereby solving the problem. Simples!

That is a very good post, and well argued point of view (which in parts I actually share). Now why couldn't you do that the first time?

They are a lot better than "smart alec" one-liners which don't offer any reasoned argument to the contrary. Seriously, present your case. Don't just sit there and sneer. The ONLY thing that Wargaming could tell us to try to support their claim that 203mm guns are just as effective as 155mm guns is a breakdown of the actual damage per game that the two guns dish out. But he didn't refer to "Damage" - but specifically "DPM". Whichever way you try to cut it the guy in the Q & A was wrong. DPM is DPM, whether "theoretical" or whatever you want to call it. And he obviously hasn't got a clue what the DPM of the two gun configurations actually is on Mogami.

@Gojuadorai, @Dropsiq Thanks for those posts. Nice to hear the views of good players on this subject. Very reassuring. After a shaky start, Königsberg and Nürnberg are both ships that I want to keep. I don't enjoy CAs so I won't be buying the Yorck, even though I researched it to "elite" my Nürnberg. Therefore these ships will keep their current captains. My Königsberg captain is close to getting 11 points, and Nürnberg captain close to 12 points. Both captains have the same skills - Situational Awareness, Expert Marksman, Last Stand & Vigilance. I plan to get Demolition Expert as the level 4 skill as soon as I have the necessary points. Hopefully this will give me many hours of fun!

The Anshan is a stronger ship in absolute terms, I agree, but I does face tougher matchmaking at tier 6, then Gnevny at tier 5, so it kind of balances IMHO. Totally agree with the comments about Ognevoi (could not wait to sell it), Kiev, and the importance of AFT. All great points. Turret traverse speed on Russian DDs is not the fastest either, so I found that Expert Marksman is a useful skill to have.

QUOTE: "Mogami with 155mm guns has more or less the same DPM than with 203mm guns," And with that, your honor, the case for the prosecution is proved. Wargaming devs do not understand their own game. Guns ROF Shells/min HE Dam AP Dam HE DPM AP DPM Mogami (155) 15 6 90 2600 3300 234000 297000 Mogami (203) 10 4 40 3300 4700 132000 188000

I have read this discussion with great interest because it is a subject close to my heart. I have not felt the need to contribute because Trigger_Happy_Dad is already arguing my case far better than I would. Several posters have made well-argued points that BFT,EM and AFT (1) can be used by experienced players in light cruisers to go seal-clubbing. This seal clubbing is "a bad thing" - but only when done by light cruisers, apparently. If you are going to support game changes based on the seal clubbing argument then don't use double standards - apply it to all types of ship. For example, here are the stats for tier 5 destroyers (from the Warships today website). Don't try and tell me that Fujin and Kamikaze R are being used solely for training basic captains. They are great ships for captains doing the awful grind to get the 5-point concealment skill which is rightly prized by destroyer skippers. But of course that means experienced captains at tier 5 and ...err...."over performing" Ship Battles Win% Av Damge Frags/game Fujin 69,639 58% 34,889 1.2 Kamikaze R 88,017 56% 32,829 1.2 Gremyashchy 219,053 54% 29,626 1 Minekaze 1,687,254 51% 29,290 1 Gnevny 267,292 51% 20,424 0.7 Nicholas 842,458 48% 19,004 0.7 Note (1) BFT = Basic Firing Training, Level 1 Captain's skill for better rate of fire EM = Expert marksman, Level 2 Captain's skill for faster turret traverse AFT = Advanced Firing Training, extending gun range of Main. Secondary and AA guns.

"You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day" But, +1 anyway!

Several bugs. Here is what happened 1) Clicked "Battle" button in port and went to screen displaying teams & mission 2) I was stuck in this screen as battle started. 3) Cancelled and restarted game in safe mode 4) Returned to game at the screen displaying teams & mission. Still not in battle but could hear all the sounds. 5) Cancelled and restarted game in safe mode - 2nd time 6) Returned to game at the screen displaying teams & mission. Still not in battle but could hear all the sounds. Including "The ship is on fire", explosions on the ship and eventually the ship sinking. 7) Cancelled and restarted game in safe mode - 3nd time 8) This time actually entered game. The view was at the spawn point of mys hip - where it had been sunk. 9) BUG: No sign of the ship, but flames continued to rage on the empty sea above the spot where my ship had been sunk. 10) Battle ended, along with the notification: "You have not proved yourself in this battle" - AS IF I HAD A CHANCE! Well Wargaming ..... YOU HAVE NOT PROVED YOURSELF WITH THIS PATCH Worst. Patch.Ever.

I purchased USS New York on December 7th 2015, because there was a sale of tier 5 ships (and some other tiers also, I believe). The discount was 30% IIRC. She is still sitting in port without a captain, and I have never played her in battle. (I did the BB challenges for the "Kamikaze R" project in the Japanese battleship "Kongo.") You have to be smart to play battleships, and think several moves ahead - which isn't my strength. Since I may give the USS New York a go in the future, I shall bookmark this thread for useful tips.

Allow me to try to assist.....I read this as idiomatic English. The origin of this kind of phrase is the film " Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", I believe.QUOTEApril: You guys eat pizza?Michaelangelo, Donatello: Doesn't everybody?END-QUOTE meaning, "Of course! EVERYBODY loves pizza!" So, you said: "And here I was thinking that I would be the only one willing to break for these ships" When Skyllon replied "Nah... Everybody loves pizza! ", he is saying "Of course not - everyone loves this ship" ...which of course everyone does - well at least those of us with discernment and taste...

Liked. I think that you make a series of good points. The only thing that I would like to comment upon is the idea of "Having the CAs begin at T6 is a good idea to get players used to playing as them". Yes, by all means start the heavy cruisers at tier 6. But we need to remember that moving from CL to CA can come as a bit of a shock.Therefore we must choose the tier 6 ships very carefully. I was initially one of the harsh critics of Furutaka, but have mellowed a lot. However I DO think that she is not the best intro to 203mm gun cruisers for several reasons (separate discussion), so I would favour replacing her at tier 5 with a Japanese light cruiser, even if it has to be a paper ship. Aoba is fine where she is, and the USN can easily come up with something that equates to it at Tier 6. I don't know what could be done about the German cruiser line, though. I guess that they will just have to stick with the light cruiser Nürnberg at Tier 6. The best thing about your suggestion IMHO is that it gives players the chance to play heavy cruisers in more than one line - at present we only have Japanese heavies at tier 5 & 6 of course. This helps the players to decide if they want to invest the time in carrying on with heavy cruisers at all, or (as I did) conclude that they were good ships but the playstyle is not for them.

Good idea! Maybe there could be a "Team Compliment" award, in the same way that individuals get compliments. I would also advocate there being a 24 hour delay, before the team that was complimented actually receives it. (I'm sure you can work out why I suggested that bit)

Many thanks for the quick reply! I take it that these can't be the same guns on both ships then? Otherwise how could the RoF be so different? Unless it's another example of putting reality to one side in favour of playability - which I support. (Wargaming though can't seem to make their mind up on this, though)

Brilliant comment.....Liked.

I face exactly the same question. It could be that it is better to spend the 4 points on skills in tiers 1-3. Some people like Survivability Expert. It is quite a large percentage HP increase for DDs, so it is probably quite useful for them. However, cruisers face different problems to DDs, and 2000 HP for a tier 5 ship is useful only in very few games I expect. I took two skills in tier 2, and have two spare points left over. I took Expert Marksman and Last Stand. The turret traverse was nerfed in 0.5.3, but the skill is still better than nothing. I suffer from lots of engine/steering hits in both German cruisers so Last Stand has been useful.

Interesting stats. I'm collecting stats on my own games in the following ships: T4: Kuma, Omaha T5: Königsberg, Murmansk, Omaha T6: Cleveland, Nürnberg So far, my average damage per game is down by 15%. My survival rate is down slightly also. It is now about 50%. It was 56% before 0.5.3. Plus, the figures that I am comparing against are the whole 0.5.3 figures, including playing with stock ships, whereas the post-0.5.3 ships are all elited, and have more experienced captains. Wargaming have succeeded in making the cruisers in these tiers more balanced with respect to each other. Well done! I don't have any problem with that AND NEVER HAVE. Where I do take issue with the 0.5.3 changes is that all cruisers - and light cruisers especially - are noticeably weaker in relation to other classes. With BBs you have less dodging room and take more hits, and with DDs you can't get your guns to bear on them so easily, your rate of fire is reduced, and they seem so much more difficult to kill because they all seem to have "Last Stand" to protect their engines/steering. I can understand the case for saying that BBs should be made relatively stronger to cruisers - since they are the counter to CAs. But since cruisers are supposed to be the counter to DDs it seems daft make it harder for cruiser to do their job. It's bad enough that you can't see the blighters unless they make an error or choose to de-cloak!

I had 8 pints because I like to sail on a gall(e)on.

+1 +1 Two very good points. IMHO. Where Wargaming have got this very right, I feel, is in the balance between making money for themselves and making a premium ship affordable to punters. They need to make a living too, so I think that the "mini-bundle" like this one for Kamikaze is the way to go in future. Wargaming - have a (Rest of forum falls over in shock)

...well, more like "semi-truce". This is only a half-serious idea really, to provoke thought for an April's Fool event. I'm sure that you can think of much better ideas than me. tl;dr An April Fool event that puts a limit on BBs and CAs to stop them tormenting each other so that they can have fun doing the job that they were designed to do in real life. I wasn't part of WoWS last year, but I saw videos of "Battleships in Space" event that happened round about April Fool time. It seemed to me that it was daft - but fun. (As was the Halloween event with Monster Ships.) My suggestion is for a similar freaky event to bring the fun of Tier 5 style gameplay to all tiers - just as a bit of light relief. (Maybe something that could be put onto the Public Test server). I feel that it would be easy to set up because the game mechanics have all the info that they need already (Firing ship, target, range, damage etc).they just need to check the ship classes and range involved in any engagement and set damage to zero for naughty players.. Here is how it would work...The game plays exactly as now, except for a few simple restrictions: 1) Any class can engage enemy ships of the SAME CLASS at ANY RANGE that their weapons will fire. i.e. BBs v BBs, CAs v CAs, DDs v DDs. 2) You can only damage enemy ships of OTHER CLASSES providing the enemy ship is within 10k distance. i.e. a CA hitting a BB at over 10k range will cause NO DAMAGE, and start NO FIRES. (and vice versa) 3) Any ship within 10k of your own ship is fair game to be attacked 4) CVs are wild-cards. They operate exactly as now, with no range restrictions. 5) All torpedos have a maximum range of 5k, or actual torpedo range (whichever is the smaller) 6) [Optional] maybe give some sort of a buff to DDs since they are going to be more actively hunted. Maybe 10k torpedo range? These special event rules enable BBs and CAs to concentrate on their historical roles, with more open gameplay and some major annoyances removed. 1) BBs won't get HE spam from long-range cruiser/DD fire. 2) CAs won't get instantly deleted by the heavy guns of BBs (unless they get too close) CAs would be able to go ahead of the BBs and support the DDs, but they would have to get closer to the enemy DDs as well to kill them - giving DDs the opportunity to retaliate. Well, that a quick and dirty idea for an April Fool's event - what would you like to see?

We are mostly in violent agreement. Nice discussion with someone who is interested in looking at all aspects of a ship though. But you DID say in your original post "...Moagami(sic) with its 155mm guns has still way higher DPM (due to extra turret & higher HE damage) with both HE and AP shells." I was just pointing out that (mathematically) AP is a tie! I didn't actually mention that MK has better AA, or rudder shift, but you are dead right in mentioning that. Kudos I saw the announcement that Wargaming were thinking of nerfing the range of Myoko and buffing Mogami. Why do they always want to nerf everything? Just leave Myoko as it is and give Mogami the range of Myoko + 500m or something. I checked out the 203mm option. You only get 10 guns and rate of fire drops to 4 round/minute giving 40 shells per minute overall. But you get higher damage values (3300 for HE and 4700 for AP) So the DPM works out to 40 * 3300 = 132000 for HE, and 40 * 4700 = 188000 for AP) So DPM is down on the 203mm guns, but of course there are the imponderables to add in, such as the fact that if you catch someone broadside then you can sink them quicker with 203mm AP shells than 155mm because they hit harder. We will see how the figures for average damage stack up in the coming month. Wargaming have nerfed Mogami though (as they intended), and I expect to see the figures drop noticeably. I know that good players will cope pretty well - they always do - but a 10% loss in firing rate and the turret speed nerf will be felt. And although the percentage of hits declines with range, it is always a useful thing to have. Warships Today has the following stats for the past week - but we need to give it more time. Ship Battles Win % Av Damage Frags/game AC frags/game Mikhail Kutuzov 4,154 54% 41,782 0.8 3.7 Atago 12,979 54% 40,238 0.8 1.3 Mogami 10,928 52% 35,462 0.7 1.3 Admiral Hipper 10,245 52% 34,585 0.6 1.8 New Orleans 8,240 51% 32,145 0.6 2.2

Both Mogami and Kutuzov can fire all their guns at the same time. I just got these figures in game. Mogami's guns can fire 6 shells per minute. 15 guns multiplied by 6 = 90 shells per minute. Kutuzov's guns can fire 7.5 shells per minute. 12 guns multiplied by 7.5 = 90 shells per minute. Mogami's HE shells have maximum damage of 2600, whereas Kutuzov's shells have only 2200. So Mogami has DPM of 2600 * 90 = 234000, and Kutuzov has a DPM of 2200 * 90 = 198000 According to the game, the maximum damage caused by AP for both ships is 3300. Since both ships fire at 90 shells per minute the DPM is the same: 3300 * 90 = 297000. However, we shouldn't get too hung up on DPM. It's one important factor amongst many. Kutuzov may be more playable and able to inflict more damage in real game situations due to its extra range (19.1 km v 15.1 km), extra chance of starting fires (12% v 10%) and the fact that its turrets turn much faster (25 secs vs 51.4 secs). It also can use offensive smoke to fire from. FUN FACT: The USS Atlanta, which can fire 14 guns at a single target at the rate of 168 shells per minute, has an HE shell with maximum damage of 1800, and AP damage of 2100. This means that its DPM is 168 * 1800 = 302400 with HE, and 168 * 2100 = 352800 with AP!

Ah! Yes mtm, but you are a very, very good player. You would have a 50%+ win rate sailing a rowboat and armed with just an air rifle . . . . at tier 8! Seriously, I think the German cruisers are like magnifying glasses. The magnify the difference between good and average players. But they can be enjoyable for all skills. The firing arcs have a lot to do with it in my case - at least for the tier 5 & tier 6 cruisers, which is as far as I am going on the tree. In fact, I think that Königsberg is now my favourite ship! (Cue certain people throwing up their hands in horror)