Admiral_H_Nelson

I'd like to humbly suggest that their unique playstyle is that . . . . .they don't actually HAVE a unique playstyle. The gimmick is that they HAVE NO GIMMICK! I'd like them to be boring and reasonably competent in all aspects of cruiser play. My ideal would be that they are average in damage, average in survivability, average in win rate ...average in everything actually.

I started a thread like this one, but based on compliments about other nations (Fast cars for Italy, great food for France, bravery for Spain, etcetera). A few posters then added things which were not complimentary however, and the moderators (rightly) closed the thread. The mods don't like political stuff (even if everything is said in jest) - it gets divisive very quickly. Don't be surprised if they intervene. Just saying.

No - but the IJN had the best torpedoes ...... so they get the best torpedo boats. The USN had the best AA .... so they get the best AA in game. Whilst this is an arcade game, the big attraction for me is that WG do seem to try to respect historical circumstances and real life as far as they can, consistent with game balance. My fear - and those of others it seems - is that Wargaming are going so far along the road in trying to make each nation have characteristic traits that they are in danger of giving the Royal Navy a bunch of mere gimmicks, with all the best traits already taken by USA, Japan, Russia and Germany!

Respect! Then we are "two halves of the same coin". I find a way to make OP ships NOT work. (E.G. Myoko, Cleveland, Imperator Nikolai ...all very bad)

@OP Firstly, I understand your concerns because I am also feeling them. However there are important factors at work, including: 1) Many players do not find this to be such a struggle as much as you and I. Good/Above average players copy with being bottom tier quite well - especially when there is only one tier difference. 2) Limited Matchmaking in lower tiers. The problem at Tier 5 is caused by the introduction of limited matchmaking for tiers 1-4, where only one tier difference is allowed. This was done for good reasons - it means that newer players get a more gentle intro to the game. 3) Divisions with mixed tiers. Remember that when you have a division of ships from different tiers that the HIGHER TIER ship(s) count in the matchmaking. If this rule was not applied then people could use these divisions to fix matchmaking in their favour. (A division of a T4 and T5 ship would mean that the tier 5 ship would always be top tier) 4) There is nothing inherently WRONG with +2/-2 matchmaking. Yes it's is tough being bottom tier, but if you get a roughly equal number of games where you are top tier then you are being treated fairly. The balance is not right though, which is what is causing the complaints. From what I see posted on the forum, my own situation is probably typical. e.g. 50 games at Tier 5, with 32 as bottom tier and only 18 at top tier. Wargaming are reportedly monitoring the situation closely. They are not stupid. They will think of a solution that helps us average players eventually.

I posted this in another thread today - but it is worth repeating here because it is on topic. My particular interest is cruisers, and I can't say that there is balance between Russian and US cruisers at the moment. I did a quick analysis based on the last two weeks stats. The table shows the lead that Russian cruisers have over US ships in the major statistical categories. Tier WinRate Damage XP K/D Ratio Ship Kills Plane Kills Survival 1 7.0% 1136 48 0.6 0.3 -0.3 8% 2 4.3% 4114 -3 0.4 0.2 -0.2 6% 3 1.0% 5563 72 0.2 0.2 0.0 4% 4 0.7% 1767 -53 0.1 0.1 0.0 1% 5 0.2% 4460 52 0.1 0.1 0.0 2% 6 0.6% 6547 114 0.2 0.1 -0.1 1% 7 2.6% 10802 109 0.3 0.2 -0.1 2% 8 2.8% 11260 170 0.3 0.2 -0.1 4% 9 1.5% 15944 56 0.4 0.2 -0.2 5% 10 0.4% 13584 -234 0.4 0.1 -0.3 10% Note that the US lead Russia in only 9 out of 70 categories, and that the Russians have a clean sweep in every tier in terms of Win Rate, Average Damage, Kill/Death ratio, Ship kills and Survival Ratio.

This is going just like the old joke about management reviewing reports! "Mice have four feet" Version1: Smoke +HE Management comment: It works but all the other nations do it. Not unique or acceptable. Version2: No Smoke or HE. Stronger AP & Speed Boost Management comment: It doesn't work. Needs a rethink. Version3: Smoke + AP. No Speed boost. Management comment: It doesn't work. Needs a rethink. Version4: Smoke +HE Management comment: It works at last. Approved.

Replying to post #4596 Posted 28th September, 03:28 PM 1) Q; Might not be within your ability to answer but misght as well ask. Any plans to reduce the amount of BBs in game and improve CA/CL to make them more desirable? A: We would like to make cruisers more popular. This is why they get rudder mod.3 in 0.5.12. Other tweaks will be introduced later. - What ALL cruisers? If not, the cutoff between tiers will be quite strong. 2) Q: I think the question that's bugging most of us is what the hell is going on with the British Cruisers. A: The initial concept implied too much "HE-smoke-spam-click-click" meta gameplay, which we really don't want to support more. We want each line to offer some unique experience rather than being clone of previous lines. We are testing a new concept, the 2-nd edition didn't show good results on production test, then we improved it and will tests 3-rd edition. For now, it seems to be much closer to what we want. I am not sure the line will be ready by 0.5.13, though. We'll see. - A very promising reply. 3) Q: Quite a few players feel that T5 and T6 are being handicapped since they currently see +2/-1. Is there any potential insight you could provide? Are those tiers likely to see +2/-2 ever again?. A: We do realize that after matchmaker tuning T3-4 and T7-8 got more fun and T5-6 got more difficult to play. It was preidctable, and this was our conscious decision. We're conducting a dedicated research on that to see what action is needed (if any) to soften the effect. Personal remark: one guy from my team has started a new account, so we play on low-mid tiers weekly to help him with advancing. I have to say, T5-6 are still fun (IMO). - Fun? Well some people enjoy having pain inflicted upon them, i.e. Masochists. Not my thing, but each to their own, I suppose. BBs and DDs can cope more with it IMHO - but for an average cruiser player it's all about hunting for scraps. I avoid Tiers 5 & 6 (as I avoid clichés) like the plague.

If you can figure a way to get it transferred (seriously, you could ask WG if it is possible), then you can have my Anshan. Can't stand the wretched thing.

I fully agree with your advice about the need to make ongoing adjustments in the interest of balance. I just wish that Wargaming would take it! My particular interest is cruisers, and I can't say that there is balance between Russian and US cruisers at the moment. I did a quick analysis based on the last two weeks stats. The table shows the lead that Russian cruisers have over US ships in the major statistical categories. Tier WinRate Damage XP K/D Ratio Ship Kills Plane Kills Survival 1 7.0% 1136 48 0.6 0.3 -0.3 8% 2 4.3% 4114 -3 0.4 0.2 -0.2 6% 3 1.0% 5563 72 0.2 0.2 0.0 4% 4 0.7% 1767 -53 0.1 0.1 0.0 1% 5 0.2% 4460 52 0.1 0.1 0.0 2% 6 0.6% 6547 114 0.2 0.1 -0.1 1% 7 2.6% 10802 109 0.3 0.2 -0.1 2% 8 2.8% 11260 170 0.3 0.2 -0.1 4% 9 1.5% 15944 56 0.4 0.2 -0.2 5% 10 0.4% 13584 -234 0.4 0.1 -0.3 10% Note that the US lead Russia in only 9 out of 70 categories, and that the Russians have a clean sweep in every tier in terms of Win Rate, Average Damage, Kill/Death ratio, Ship kills and Survival Ratio.

Liked! (System tells me that I have run out of likes for today)

Congratulations on a good game! However it doesn't prove Exocet wrong, or address his point. BTW how much of the damage that you inflicted came from fires - you certainly started a fair few there!

Very good analysis overall! (System tells me that I have run out of "likes") Yes, cruisers do have a bad time in the current meta. I'm just putting forward the view that they have it particularly bad in Epicenter. It's just my view as a humble, mediocre, but dedicated cruiser player. I'm probably wrong as usual - just me being rubbish and unable to cope with it. This game is driving me insane. As Wargaming constantly make it better and better, I just get worse and worse at it . . .and that makes me grumpy.

1) If the rumours are true, then Version 2 of the Royal Navy Cruiser line has been not balanced - meaning yet another rethink. The inference is that WG want to make sure that the the line is neither UP nor OP. If so, then this is both fair and reassuring. This would make October 2016 highly optimistic, though. 2) Might there me a small branch line for RN heavy cruisers similar to what WG are proposing for the IJN Destroyers (the Torpedo Boat/Gunboat split)?

+1 Overall, good ideas OP

Thanks for posting. So Minekaze has better stats in all four categories than the regular cruisers at tier 5 (Kirov, Furutaka, Omaha and Koenigsberg) Rock > Paper > Scissors. Buff cruisers!

I don't believe that Wargaming themselves wants the RN line to fail. I worry that they will be too influenced by Russian players. In a different thread another Supertester (better not throw out names) said that the original concept of RN cruisers worked reasonably OK, but that the Russian server population didn't like all the HE+Smoke that was a fundamental part of the concept . Therefore instead of a tweak to the RN cruisers we get a fundamental rework. Wargaming seek to keep the Russian players happy because its good for business, no sinister reason. Look at the way that Russian cruisers are so "ultra competitive" against their rivals, and the fact that the only two ships which are never to be sold again due to being OP are Imperator Niolai I and Gremyashchy (both Russian).

For me, "Epicenter" mode (or "Epicfail" as I like to call it) is another of those game mechanics such as Cyclone weather, that is more challenging to light cruisers than other types of ship. (As if cruisers didn't face enough challenges in the current meta already) Carriers are not affected. BBs can tank damage, and some of them love brawling anyway. DDs can create torpedo soup and have their smoke. Light Cruisers cannot brawl, especially light cruisers - and the opportunities for using islands as hard cover are limited in the games that I have played. The only time that I have been able to enter the circles in a cruiser is late in the game, when numbers have thinned out a lot. If my team is losing then effectively I never get the chance at all, because the enemy will smash any puny cruiser attempting to advance upon their group in the cap (and they will be in a nice mutually-supporting group because the game mode forces that on them).

I agree with your overall argument. but PEDANT ALERT Point of information: After 203mm in T5, T6 and T7 on the IJN line, the stock T8 Mogami is delivered with 155mm guns. Sorry!

I have given your post a "like", because for 99% of cases your advice is the best that can be given. There is always that "other 1%" though and I am worried that the RN cruiser line falls into that small category. There are grounds for this that cannot simply be dismissed by the "wait and see" argument:-1) Wargaming NEED to get this right.The RN is late in getting a full tree and "you only get one chance to make a first impression"2) The original vision of RN cruisers has been officially abandoned in total.Name one other line where this has happened.3) The leaks & snippets of info concerning the "new" RN cruisers are worrying.Third party info and snippets from WG themselves are worrying and have been picked to pieces in several other threads. This video on Youtube is a good example of this.World of Warships -Minotaur Tier X Cruiser - First Look Update If Wargaming screw up the RN cruiser line, then my enthusiasm for the game is at the level of "we're holed below the waterline! We're flooding quickly" and I have no repair available. I love ships themselves - not specifically "World of Warships" (It's just a necessary evil in order to play a game involving ships)

All good stuff, thanks - I love learning about history. What I was trying to do (and seem to have failed miserably) is to offer a quotation to show someone who has no grip on reality at all. ....and the other quote is from Marie Antoinette (allegedly)

The year 1792 "Your Majesty, the people are hungry and have no bread to eat." Marie Antoinette: "Let them eat cake" ("Qu'ils mangent de la brioche") RESULT: The people chopped her head off with a guillotine. ----------- The Year 2016 "Mr Conway, do Wargaming plan to do anything with USN cruisers (aka buff them) because high tier ones are clearly underperforming as shown by stats." Mr Conway: "We will give them faster rudder shift instead of concealment." I see a similarity so far........

After these fantasy ships for the Royal Navy cruiser line, I am wondering what Wargaming can do for "national traits" for nations who are still without lines in the game. In the spirit of helpfulness, I offer a few suggestions:- Italy - famous for handsome ships and fast cars, including the iconic Ferrari in formula 1. Special Consumable = "Hit and Run". Function: Enables the ship to approach the enemy at warp speed, fire torpedoes at point-blank range, do a 180 degree turn like a Ferrari at Monza and get away from the enemy without being detected. France - famous for top quality world-class cuisine Special Consumable = "Hot Meal". Function: Serves up a delicious and nourishing meal to the crew. Strengthened by this, all cool down is immediately cancelled and all other consumables are immediately available. Spain - famous for bravery (e.g. bull fighters) Special Consumable = "Red Cape". Function: When enemy fire is incoming, this consumable deploys a giant red cape to the side of the ship. The enemy shells/torpedoes are attracted to the cape and not the ship. As the shells miss the crew all shout "Olé". Netherlands - famous for being more tolerant towards soft recreational drugs Special Consumable = "Chill Pill". Function: Deploys special smoke in both screen and shell form. When the enemy inhales this smoke, they stop firing and become pacifist until the effect wears off. Australia - famous for the boomerang Special Function = "Fire and Retrieve" Function: In the future version of the game, when ammunition gets limited, Australian ships will be able to fire special Boomerang shells at the enemy. If they miss then they return to the firing ship, so that they can re-use them later. Greece - birthplace of modern Western thought on Science, mathematics and philosophy Special Function = "Philosopher" Function: When the enemy fire shells at the Greek ship, the Philosopher consumable pops up to argue that "reality is an illusion and the shells don't really exist". At which point they simply disappear. No cool down on philosophers because Greece had so many of them. (To their credit, so do the French and Germans of course, but they already have their own national characteristic in the game) Canada - famous for being like America, but without the unpleasantness Special Function = "The Mountie" (knickname of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police", whose famous slogan is "The mountie always gets his man") Function: Deployed when chasing a target enemy ship. Once deployed the enemy cannot escape because the Canadian ship will always get whatever speed boost is needed to remain faster, and always retains visibility of the enemy. Any others?

Aw...don't be like that! I like Belgium. It was the first country that I visited apart from my own, and the people were all great, firendly and helpful. My suggestion for Belgium as home of the loved/feared/hated (*) EU Administration Special Consumable: Burocrat Function: When deployed, the Burocrat immediately passes a law which says that the ship cannot be fired on by enemy ships for the duration of the battle. (Technically only for two minutes - but there are so many of these Burocrats in all governments that effectively it never ends) (*) Delete as applicable