Zathras_Grimm

The MM can try to sort things out but I'm guessing that at high tiers if you want any kind of balance you are going to have a looooooong wait (to start game).

So CAs have manouverability, better guns, spotter aircraft and soon radar. But more is still required? Once a Shim launches its torps you have 2 1/2 munutes or 12.5% of the game before he can fire them again. Yes, CAs (along with any other nation DD) are suited to kill IJN DDs, but I refuse to agree this should be an easy task. A DD has every right to be able to kill any other ship, just like any other class has. I just think many larger ship captains can't accept that fact (not indicating that is you btw).

Can't CA ships get the reduced detection captain skill?

Yes, but you're comparing the detection with a IJN DD then the guns with CA. I think I can trump you on the feable gun power that IJN DDs have against any class ship (even at tier level lower when you include other nations fire rates.) When heading towards an enemy fleet with an enemy DDs coming in the opposite direction I find the lower differences in detection range mean nothing. Personally I hope they cap DDs at 3 for all levels so it stops the constant complaints. The only problem is it wont; the next complaint will be torps are too powerful. Then when that gets addressed it will be the detection range. It seems many just can't accept being sunk by the little ship.

When I am quoting or addressing you I will say 'you'. You like making statements but not so much receiving them(?). Calm down, we all use personal opinions; why bother Jesus with them? Edit: I read my post and thought how rude it sounds! My apologies. I mean that I will state 'you said' or something similar if I am attributing something directly to you. Apologies once again.

1. Just because the guns are the worst of any nation it does not mean they are not fired. Just means when you are spotted by any other nation DD you have to be better (or more skillful) to survive. This includes being spotted by other means and taking incoming fire from everywhere. 2. Yes buff to XP to balance the usual high amounts BBs get as a matter of course. 3. So no one at Tier X has high level captains but DD players? Wow! 4. Great destroyers on each tier? Compared to what, other DDs? I believe the tiers VI -IX are worse than the Minekaze. 5. Funny how a person labels the game boring if it doesn't suit their style of play. Many DD players probably think having to change direction to stay undetected or avoid incoming is boring to. Maybe the game is just boring for some when they have to 'wiggle' as you say? BTW what skill is there to captain a BB, wiggle and shoot? No, I wouldn't be so naive to believe that.

Had a chuckle; says 'Oh come on', then admits to having more difficulty in the following sentence. Of course the difficulty could have been with something completely detached from the 'kill steal' topic, but the 'Oh come on - ok it was more difficult' statement is funny.

Kill stealing is probably not the right phrase because in general the goal is to win the game; the quicker you kill the enemy the better. Mission Steal is probably a better description; that scenario where your own team mates put your survival in question because they hold off engaging with the enemy to try to capture the kill for a mission they're on.

Ok understand the getting together with friends, still confused by the statement that this was not a positive point that contributed to you choosing to play a class you hate. Ahhh, unless you are saying you feel you have no choice in tier/class but to play something you don't enjoy in order to keep with friends that play at that level; ok fair enough, but I still think that if true then it would be the point you chose to play the Shima (It was the best choice for you to play at that level and stay with your friends(?)).

I meant that the nerf and buff were not released at the same time. When I was looking at what nation to start I looked at the abilities of each and decided on IJN. Yamato and Shim were 2 ships that stood out, so if I can figure that out then why wouldn't others (if tier 10 is seen as the ultimate goal, why not go for the best tier 10; most identify this as the Shim for DDs). As stated above I started off by looking at what nation to choose and intended to grind through to 10. I just found that DDs gave me the most enjoyment because it was the ship I believed enabled my style of play to contribute to the team most. It can be frustrating when things don't go as planned but that will happen in a game that starts off with 12 players wanting to end you lol. I am a little confused with the grinding to tier 10 to play a ship that you don't like statement (unless you mean you hate DD play in general but the Shim is different (acceptable?)). I play this game as it is enjoyable, the minute it doesn't become so then I will choose something else to play. I am all for working through the bad to get to the good (happens in life lol), but why work through the bad to get somewhere you don't enjoy being?

The CV and stealth buff were a little way apart from each other. It also doesn't explain the increase of DDs in lower tiers (not all kamis). To spend time on something you hate can explain the reason for a lot of frustration to! Hopefully we can all get to a point where we are happy with the game and a loss is accepted as a case of the other player/team just being better.

Agree with you Dampfboot, unequal distribution of more than 1 ship or indeed a poor balance of torpboat/gunboat does not help. Ghostbuster, 'not saying there isn't an issue' doesn't mean I agree that there is one; it merely means I'm prepared to consider many people are not just whinging because they choose to stay at the back or sail in straight lines and get hit (although I dare say some are). Everyone can do their job; what is that exactly? When did everything go wrong and why did the DDs become a favoured ship? Not because they are OP, but because people choose caution at the top tiers it seems, whereas players seem to work better together in lower tiers. There has been a great increase in DDs in the lower tiers, yet the structure of play does not seem affected as with the higher tiers. Yet the stats seem similar in high as well as low tier.

A possible solution, but then I think why must DDs have to be limited due to others choice to stay back? I go forward, to scout, cap and attack, with low HP and plenty of things out there to spot me it is a danger, but for me it is the role I choose and the chance I take. Why must DDs be limited because others aren't prepared to move forward? I look at the picture above and wonder if any of those torps will hit; I also see that the red team is pushing forward whilst the green team is on the other side so it's no wonder the DDs feel safe in firing their torps. To the right of the picture and on the map you can see there are another 2 enemy DDs; one nearly dead. The game is more than half way through so an easy observation, but it seems the DDs are safe enough to launch and have nothing to fear from the green team. Would they have been so free in launching earlier in the game? There was a video I saw on the forum where a group were being torped. That also showed they had no DD cover (as it had dropped back), they were aware they had been spotted, all the ships were in 2 bunched up groups and they had just fired there own 'wall' of torps; so it wasn't a one sided thing. Those seem to be the only pic/vid I have seen in the 2-3 months of forum entries complaining about the DDs/Torps/Shims. I am not stating there isn't an issue, as too many forum players have commented on the problem. But I do think that the issue can be rather one sided and the situation can easily be flipped on the head with what DDs have to deal with, that is why I wonder about the capping of a ship when everyone says they are not OP. It just seems to come easier for some to accept the death of a DD rather than accept the death from one. The last statement is a general one and not aimed at any particular person(s).

Hi Ghostbuster, decided on a separate post as your reply is a little different to the Admiral's. Taking my last post into account (and not accusing anyone of wishing to nerf DDs), I believe the style of gameplay is leading to the class of ship people are deciding to play. Why would you pick a ship you know isn't suited to the style of gameplay? Again, I can agree on the effect a certain decision of gameplay could lead to: If we are firing from afar, then you will choose a large range/high HP ship, or one that can't be seen (or CV; stands to reason). This could lead to those attempting to play CAs being the piñata of the game as they are the closer, lower HP target that everyone can see. Result, lower CA numbers (or CAs try to hide behind BBs). Then it's down to BBs and DDs in the main; this won't go well for the BBs so I can understand their frustration (although you can pick much of what they complain about and compare it directly to what a DD has to deal with; an enemy firing at you that you can do nothing back to!). I agree this would be frustrating, but ask if this is a direct result of the power of DD ships, or if it is in fact the 'circumstance' (or choice people have made) that has lead to the DD issues people are having?

Appreciate the reply. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't the fact that people change their style of play which in turn is affecting the gameplay to a greater extent (a choice by the player rather than a direct effect of a gameplay mechanic)? What I mean is that: If I know there are a lot of torpedoes; I know I can't always count on team play; I know that repairs cost an arm and a leg; therefore I decide to play it safe (this can include all classes of ship), then all that is left is to spam whatever weapons you have at a distance. I can believe this would be frustrating.... However, if we take the stats and your own statement that many torps don't actually hit their target and that it may not happen that often, then surely this is a circumstance of the decision made by the players, rather than the World of DD/World of Torps/World of Shimas many talk about. A domino effect that leads to a frustrating game but one that could be addressed if the players decided to go forward together as a team(?) I guess I'm just asking that if the players decide to take a stand back and fire approach, is it fair to blame the DD any more than the BB that does the same? Thanks again. Thank you again.

Ok, going off the premise we are no longer on subject topic concerning all DDs, but rather looking at torps, or higher tiers, and maybe the Shim : So saying dodging incoming fire is as boring as dodging torpedoes would be fair? Its part of the game; like saying I want some danger but not too much. In my Minekaze I have to put up with every other nation DD having the chance to spot and having better artillery (even at a tier below), enemy CA spotter craft, BB spotter craft, CV aircraft and the fact that once detected it's Piniata time! I could say it's boring, but it is more the opposite. Although the big difference seems to be that many of the torps miss or don't kill (according to statistics); the artillery fired at DDs is more likely to lead to a kill. So who has more cause to complain. A very singular view, but look forward to others take on it.

Again this thread like many others seems to be going down the Shim route rather than a World of DD which is the subject title. Again, the more DDs out there the more chance a DD will be discovered due to them not seeing the enemy to avoid them. Also, it seems that when the stats do not support World of DDs accusation, it becomes a 'boring game' issue. As I previously stated, why is it a boring game when a BB must dodge incoming from an enemy they can do nothing about, but it is ok when a DD is fired upon by an enemy it can do nothing about it?

If you charge you will 'outrun' the smoke you're laying down. Are there no other enemy players in your scenario?

Please don't take this the wrong way but you are complaining about ships using their abilities (torps and guns). Why wouldn't a ship use its best attributes to win; it's like saying 'those BBs kept spamming artillery and made me have to dodge!'. Why is it that the bigger ship captains tend to find the game 'boring' when a DD can fire at them and they can't fire back, yet the game is fine when they can fire at a DD that has been highlighted but the DD can't fire back (because of distance)? I could argue that squeezing through the never ending carpets of artillery fire from every direction makes the game a giant cluster, but that isn't that what the game is about, guns AND torps?

This. It is like saying the team with best CA/BB/CVs always win. I still think a lot of people inherently have an issue with the smallest ship in the playground getting the jump on them and that is why you get the 'it's not fair, that little ship got me' comments (granted, it does sound more out of the norm than 'it's not fair the big BB killed me'). However, this is a game where any ship should have the ability to kill any other ship; so why the annoyance if it happens to be a DD? One of the best ways to find DDs is with other DDs, so why is it bad when there are a lot of them (on both sides)? These walls of torpedoes that people talk about must be a pain to deal with but so is the wall of artillery if my DD gets spotted (and with my 7km guns I can't hit back either). Except my torps aren't as fast and the reload isn't a matter of seconds. I will admit that I like a variety of ships in a team (in fact for a stealth DD the less enemy DDs to spot and kill me the better!), but then all you will get is the next ship size up getting shouted at for not screening Which is exactly what is happening in another thread http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/45716-cruisers-refusing-to-screen/.

Each to their own. I enjoy all aspects of the my Minekaze gameplay but have not gone higher as the long reloads do not appeal to me. I find there are tactics involved with staying undetected yet getting to the larger ships to launch torps; much as there are different tactics for the other DDs. Find the line that suits your style, remember there are some ships in every nations line up that may not be the best, grind past them, once you get the feel of what the nation and ship class is about you should have a lot of fun. All the best.

I tend to go forward to scout the enemy and once I find them try and harass or sink with torps (harass in order that an enemy DD can't take advantage of my team's ships and in the hope that the larger ships are disrupted so my team get the better shots in). Unfortunately this can result in death when the team you're spotting for slowly edges backwards and doesn't give support against stronger DDs (in my minekaze that means every other nations DD including one tier lower when it comes to guns and rate of fire). Word of caution though, if this happens remember it is your choice to play a certain style of game. It is great to get support but remember your team could be busy with their own problems (hey, its war after all lol). Don't be disheartened; I often leap to another DD in game and see if I can learn anything from their gameplay. Have fun and enjoy the game as best you can.

Just thought, yet another reason for me not to try to climb the IJN DD tiers past Tier V. Not only do I get less artillery and slower reloads in the Mut, but now I have Tier VIII CAs that can target me without breaking a sweat. Still enjoying the game but am beginning to wonder for how long?

I have also experienced lag; whether you wish to believe or not is up to you. It won't change the fact of the lag and whether you believe me or not doesn't concern me.

Well aware of the 8th, that's why I will be treating the missus (if truth be told for Mother's Day actually). Never entered my mind to take out the wallet and call out if any other 'Lucky Lady' wants a Sugar Daddy hand out (conditions apply!). Sounds a little creepy, but maybe the problem sits with me having a warped point of view to what is a genuine offer by the OP. There was another thread where telling a team they had a GG was apparently an insult (go figure); this internet world is not an easy one to understand.