Zathras_Grimm

Yes, but it isn't meant to be decoration either; my Fujin has authentic WW2 halloween camo and my Minekaze has the Christmas puke design. I use the Aslan mod to go back to grey and can only apologise to those poor people who decide to play 'pure' and have to see my ugly [edited]boats in game. The edited out word makes my post seem worse than it is! Just replace the [edited] with another name used for donkey please.

DDs play differently at all tiers but most complaints centre around the higher tiers; many who have complained have actually stated it is not so much the DD itself but the game mechanics at the higher level. I've heard the lack of CVs along with the CAs suffering citadels from BBs are a factor that led to people choosing between the DDs and BBs in the main. Maybe it's not surprising many chose the DD, as you can't hit what you can't see(?) With a high number of DDs there will be also be a greater number of torpedoes, frustrating I am sure, but it also seems (from the abuse I get about there being no 'team play' at higher levels) that many players choose to stay back, not trusting their team to play, well, as a team. None of the above can really be attributed to the DD itself as a class, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with calls to nerf HP, detection range, or limit the numbers due to players choosing not to play as a team in what is a team game.

Although not supporting the 'whaaa' bit I have to disagree with what you say. I have not played top tier but whenever I suggest any form of 'playing as a team', I get nothing but abuse! Apparently there is no such thing as teamwork at top tiers so how can your Kutuzov's be working together? Strange though as the same individuals then explain how all the enemy DDs (never their own) manage to synchronise a timed release of torpedoes to create the affectionately known 'wall of a thousand torps'. Telepathy as opposed to team play I guess?

What you describe is game mechanic that promotes team play. There has been many occassions where one friendly ship could be losing the fight against another enemy ship, I drop smoke to conceal him yet maintain line of sight with the enemy. I can't fire without exposing my position, but I am spotting for my friendly ship; he now has the upper hand. That's team play!

If I lay smoke and I am the only one in area I cannot see the ship I am running from (usually this happens towards the end of game). If I lay smoke during the beginning of the game, I believe it is the other friendly ships line of sight that allows me to see the enemy ship enabling me to fire. It makes sense. Therefore isn't that similar to the situation where one ship can spot a DD and every other one can fire at it? I think another player called it communication in another thread. I would be happy to give up any chance to fire from smoke if it means CAs/BBs can't fire at me from across the map when a nearby DD or aircraft spots me. Was this a joke post OP or did you really not see the similarity with the DD being spotted situation? Edit: How dare those DDs do anything other than scout, cap and die; disgraceful!!

OP: What's unreal in the game? or in reality just another complaint about DDs! This is a game and every ship should have the ability to kill another; I am amazed when people talk about DDs being 'in the top 3' of a team list or having the audacity to 'sink another ship' as if this is some kind of affront to decency. Yes yes, DDs should do their job: scout, cap, be detected (by other DDs, spotter planes, CV aircraft) and die; like a good little ship. Yes, DDs are suited to some roles better than other ship classes, but don't forget they are there to kill the enemy like everyone else.

I think he means the DD issue seems to be one that is taking up much space on the forum and, maybe rather than concentrating on Russian Cruisers, WG should address the top tier DD issue and the causes first. I would expect they are different parts of the company (sales/programming), but could be wrong.

Yes I have my own view and I got it by listening to others, viewing stats and reading about specifications on the different ships provided by WG. It is a view that we have actually already discussed and in some parts agrees with your views; in other areas it does not. You could say you don't agree with it, you can completely ignore it. You choose to tell me I have no right to have a point of view on how the DD issue has come about at high tiers. I have not told anyone they are wrong but I have been so bold as to say I don't believe the issue is the fault of the Shima but rather the anger at the Shima is the result of other factors. Why go for a quick fix cap on DDs if the other things that are broken that led to the current situation will still be broken? To me it makes perfect sense to address those issues first, but guess what, I could be wrong, but it is my opinion based on the information I have received. As in another thread I will agree to disagree and leave the last word (reply) to you if you so wish to make one. Apart from your need to be rude to me for annoying you and daring to have an opinion, I have no issue. All I would ask is not to be so hostile with every other word an 'edit', it will automatically bring peoples defences up and not help the situation. Your rage at me has spanned several pages where a simple reply about the topic issue at high tiers and DDs would have taken a couple of minutes. Also please remember that I responded to a game mechanic/smoke post you made; I have plenty of experience in both. It was you that decided to flip it to another area. Your accusations were unfounded from the beginning in this thread.

Of course we can discuss; you talk about your theories I talk about mine. You have already said I have similar thoughts to yours in some areas, so that shows if you can get past your elitist view of who can and cannot talk on this forum a discussion can be achieved. Again by stating some of my views are similar to yours also shows a person can form an opinion and discuss that opinion with absolutely no problem. I have the basics, in fact I have better than the basics, I have the views of multiple players who play at top tier levels. You have also proven that even those who have played at high tiers can also have an opposite view point than yours, you have even agreed that not one persons view is the definitive. Please understand that I understand you believe you can tell someone what they can and cannot have an opinion on in this forum (as you have said it 20 times!). I'm telling you that you can't, I would say that is the only 'definitive' in this conversation. Whether you wish to discuss with me or not is up to you, whether you want to ignore my opinion is up to you, but until the forum rules change you will have to live with it. Edit: and using your logic as you have had nothing to do with writing the forum rules I guess you should 'keep those opinions to yourself'! Goodnight.

Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation. A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. You are right (not completely but I will go with you on this): on this forum nothing is proved because everyone will have their own knowledge and own opinion on what they have experienced. Note - even their experiences will be different to a certain extent, so it comes down to looking at what is placed in front of you and deciding. The real question is, why is your experience the definitive one above all others; of course you are not saying it is (I don't believe so anyway)? Move onto the next stage....why is the point of view of a particular group definitive? The answer is they are not! Because someones experience is different to yours does not mean they are lying either. So what on earth is the problem with me choosing what I believe and stating why? Isn't that what a Forum is about, discussion?

I guess that if you are saying the same thing as I said (or vice versa) then your anger towards me seems a little silly(?) And if the DD problem is due to other factors shouldn't we address those factors??? I can't remember the exact scenario you mentioned about the sub but I'm not sure I get your point. I've not been in Space to experience it, but I understand you can't breath up their without some kind of assistance(?) Maybe you know differently. Experience and Knowledge are 2 different things yes, but if you consider most of what you know comes from information you have heard (rather than experienced) and then decided to believe, not believe, or have no opinion, you would understand why I find your anger difficult to understand. I think it is more due to the fact that I do not agree with your thoughts about the Shima and like others you tend to ridicule or find fault instead of just accepting differing views. For instance your reply to an above post: kagero is ineffective against yamato? LOL This is one of the funniest thing i have ever heard in this forum. well done. nice imagination is it so different to say the Yamato is ineffective against the Shima, which you indicate (I think you elude to Shima being every ships nemesis)? However, most people don't choose to laugh in your face but rather put another point of view across.

Actually I don't believe I have posted anything on the thread previously, but as I wasn't trying to 'prove' anything to you I guess that it doesn't really matter. I have stated why I do not feel the Shima is the issue at top tiers, but will repeat again in a way as to try not to invoke your anger: As I listen (or read lol) what people put on the threads I form an opinion. Most comments indicate that the Shima wasn't a massive problem in the past. Something happened to the CVs that caused them to be ineffective (or disappear), CAs had a hard time with the big hits from BBs and the unspotted DDs; they started to disappear. This left a choice between BBs and DDs, so many chose DDs (can't hit what you can't see). As a result the Shima (low detection and big torp DD) then became the bane of the top tier. Is this the Shima's fault, or is it the result of the above mentioned factors and an MM prone to strange decisions? Why is this point of view such a hard thing to accept and why can't I come to the conclusion I have based on the comments made on the forum? Sometimes the 'You must have played, you must have played this many, you must have won this many etc etc' approach can be counter productive and very negative (it reminds me of the Harry Enfield 'Know your place woman!' sketch). If I was screaming you are all liars then hey get angry, but most of the time it is you that tend to take the defensive approach and can be quite rude. Please read my posts they only start a couple of pages back; none of it is attacking or rude. I don't think I said anything controversial.

If you read the post you quoted it doesn't actually state that you said it was a cheat, he said someone, random forum peeps and made a general comment on whining. I am not trying to make anyone look silly, but maybe a more non-aggressive post (from all) will garner a less confrontational reply. EDIT: and to comment on the thread in general I think the smoke indicator is very helpful as in game I like to lay down smoke to help fellow ships out, it seems silly that they can't see where it starts and stops to use it when close. I also get where you are coming from as I would assume that firing along the centre at some point will have a better chance of finding the DD, especially as you have to slow down in order not to outrun the smoke you are laying down. SUPER EDIT: I have now seen the cheat comment at the bottom lol; come on guys lets be nice Now where is the blind smiley when you need one!

I have discussed smoke and detection, 2 topics you raised. I have experience with both. I have commented on many threads that I do not feel that the Shima is the issue at top tiers, but rather it is the result of other issues such as some game mechanics and MM. I put my thoughts across as a user of the forum who reads many posts from many people. Some have agreed and some have not, few have been as rude as you have in doing so. Are my thoughts that radical? People are allowed views; you can provide a different pov, a bit of knowledge from your experience, a completely different take altogether. Why the anger I don't know. Capra has shown he has experience at higher levels, but you then put a caveat on that experience. He has experience and he doesn't agree with some of your views. I'm sure people don't disagree with you just to P you off; please don't take it as so.

Again, I have not been rude and I don't believe I have been incorrect in anything I have said in my posts today? If I have I would be happy to discuss, as always. Is what I am saying wrong or is it more the fact what I am saying is nearer the truth?

Ghost why keep asking a question that has already been answered? Do you really mean talk/discuss, or dismiss and be rude? If he has a Tier 8 then he will have been in Tier 9/10 games. Let's be nice and at least agree to disagree if we don't see eye to eye with another forum user. No need to insert 'edit' every other word.

But has this got anything to do with DDs specifically or top tiers specifically?

Why so hostile? Many on the thread have stated high DD numbers, it seems the issue has been around how to address it. This seems to be the cause of the disagreement. Point in question being the recent capping of DDs comments. It is possible to disagree with this but still understand the issue with high DD numbers. The other thread titled World of DDs soon came to centre around the Shima. I stated that I didn't believe the Shima was the cause but rather one of the results of some game mechanics and the MM. So whereas I agreed there was an issue, I did not agree with some of the sloutions (or that it was the evil Shima).

Yes you do, I was in 4 games yesterday that had 7-8 DDs , one had 9. In CAP games they can very much change the game.

When I use smoke and slow down (as to not outrun the smoke I'm putting down) there are times where I can't see the enemy DD/CA/BB I am running from. Maybe the ship is seen by another friendly and that is why it becomes visible, but no enemy can see the DD so it remains undetectable. 'Communication' to make reference to Ghostbusters post. Maybe?

Seems he was merely countering your detection comment. Smoke: I would assume that if it wasn't able to conceal then it wouldn't have been used IRL.

Ok

A captain is responsible for his own torpedoes; if he hits a team mate then it is his fault. I have had many rage when my torpedoes have been within a couple of clicks, but they don't realise I had to wait until they are heading in one direction and I believe my torps do not pose a danger to them to even chance firing. Again, if they had done a full 180 and got hit by my torpedoes, then it would have been my fault. Honestly, I would only fire in those circumstances if a team mate was about to die (and by then I have fired guns to try to get the enemies attention anyway). I have been hit by artillery from team mates testing their guns at the beginning of a match, or just getting finger twitch lol EDIT: txtspeak, not sure this is about those that deliberately TK, but rather take unnecessary chances when their team mates are about (could be wrong though?).

Agree; it is rare that someone takes charge with a plan that seems to sit well with all. It may be due to the language difference or those that do not use Teamspeak(?) I usually find people start off with their own tactics then modify and start joining up as the game moves along. Regarding the OPs post specifically; I find communication with a smaller group works for me (talking to another DD to join together if I see a DD Div on the other side etc), I have also seen good comms between CA groups etc. Maybe you've just been unlucky?

So what you are saying is that someone elses view even if they have played at tier X does not count. I guess using the same logic neither does yours then. Also the OP did state from Tier VI, well I have played against Tier VII so I guess I can comment. Remember it was my post that said the subject has changed to a Shim one and that statement is still right (look at every single post you have made). I have not said their isn't a problem at high tier, I merely said it was down to more than one ship. Please read again if you doubt it. The only issue here is that I do not think the issue is down to the Shima and the evil torps alone and that does not sit well with you. Ghostbuster, so I am to believe what you say but not others at that level fine. Please look at the other threads you mention, there are plenty that disagreed with you and you became so rude to one that you ended up getting banned. Again, to both of you, I have not said there isn't a problem at high tiers, I have merely stated I believe there is another reason other than the usual Shima/torpedo one that the topic usually steers towards. This obviously has not sat well with you so we will have to agree to disagree. I will read any replies you have to post but will now not reply. Sending in game insults will also not be replied to!