Zathras_Grimm

A DD player so not sure about giving this advice, but please if an enemy DD is sighted by your DDs help them win the battle. Having your DDs alive, scouting and throwing out torps (making enemy BBs zig zag and lose firing opportunities) has got to be better than being on the receiving end.

It can feel frustrating knowing that if you've had a few wins you know the losses are on their way no matter what. I believe it's the balance game WG play. Only thing is if it went by skill rather than win rate you would still hit a level where you would win some and lose some (just not so many in a row maybe?). That's life I guess, if I can see things going downhill I try to focus on the battle I'm in and win that, rather than focus on the war that is going badly and get depressed. Even those small victories count!

Not really, if a guy comes screaming at you from a distance flailing his arms, then you pretty much step out of the way. Doesn't really matter if he's a heavy weight champ if he can't land the punch.

Apart from tending to accelerate the confrontation, I don't see it as any different really. Like a basic capping game, no one is 'forced' to do anything; usually find the DDs contest the centre area, the other ships are a little closer in support, but as Negativvv states, you still get those ships camping. I don't mind the variety.

Cookie was the main objective! See, you can have a terrible idea and get shot to hell (even sunk), your ships paint well and truly scratched and your battle lost, but you can still win the war (or cookie!).

mtm78: again I can't disagree with you, team play (when it happens) is what makes this game great! I'm the first to scout forward in the hope I can spot targets for my team mates but this can lead to times when you find yourself out on a limb (not because you strayed too far from support range; just they aren't supporting lol). Ok the last comment is a little unfair and if the team is preoccupied with something a little more important than me, then I can usually get out quick enough! Although your idea for 'World of Warship', with one type of ship only, what would there be to complain about? dasCKD: agree with your comment on the game being mostly fine/ok, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered coming back to it. Also agree with your comment on the camping nerf only affecting those who are guilty of that type of play.

Are we being unfair to BB campers? In real life (I know, I know , hear me out) a battle group enters the fight and although the crap may fly, there is always the thought of supporting your comrades (Band of Brothers if you like) with as many making it back as possible. In game, it is a group of individuals who have no real allegiance; hence some players that pick the BB do so because it is the 'biggest kid in the playground' and fully expect this is the best way to survive the battle (are they wrong?). I believe this is what leads to BBs camping; the inherent belief that no one should be able to damage them, let alone sink them! (Bring on the complaints of fire damage and the pure sacrilege of a DD torpedo strike! This is not allowed and I will camp to ensure it doesn't happen!). BBs do not have to stay back, it is their choice to do so! This is supported by BB divisions who push forward, look out for each other and usually do better because of their mutual support. I also believe Destroyers and Cruisers don't camp as much because: 1. They have to get into the fight to do any damage, 2. They know full well that any other ship can sink them and 3. They stand a better chance if supported by others. (However this does not explain the odd behaviour of the YOLO warriors, the Lemming train, or the DD player who is paranoid of the 'death ray' that will instantly kill him if he goes anywhere near a cap!) Maybe we are being too harsh in expecting BBs to risk their ship in coming forward?

Understand where you are coming from and agree with your thoughts. It really does come down to how historical/real life you want to keep the game, compared to the type of 'gameplay' people want.

I've come back to the game after 6 months and still can't understand why people don't communicate or even press a single button to indicate a target or ask for help. However, I wouldn't spend my time replying to someone venting their anger either; I mean if you get a lot of ranting in chat the first thing that comes to mind is 'I must follow that man to death or glory' (not!). I do feel your frustration.

Why must people be rewarded for engaging in combat in a war game? I would rather WG spend their time addressing other issues in game rather than placating someone who feels they must be handsomely rewarded for......playing the game. My comments do not cover the high tiers (VIII-X) as I don't play them.

Lol, ok I must admit I got drawn in up to this point and was about to reply if the BBs still don't come in then they won't get any rewards and if they can't do anything by camping then what is the point in playing? Simple. Next you will want BBs to have some kind of Cylon EMP pulse that causes every other ship type to lose control of their ships and the ability to fire.

It keeps coming around to the mindset of the BB player who wishes to camp; it really seems they don't want to change. Therefore the answer has to be shortening BB range! It doesn't involve nerfing other players, and BB players who engage anyway will not be affected.

dasCKD: I think your question/suggestion was a good one that stimulated talk, which is why I took part. My questions were to point out that 'sometimes' the only way it seems BBs will move forward is if they truly believe they aren't going to get killed. It seems they will stay at a distance until the odds in the game favour their advance (i.e. everyone else has engaged, died, and they are the only ones left). Good strategy for themselves but not so much for the team. 159Hunter: I have been in a few games where a Nicholas has caused fire in every engagement. On the first game and after the 5th engagement in that game, I had to congratulate him as 'the luck is with you'; he just said it was the Captains skill. I do not exaggerate and I guess the rolls were indeed with him if the chance to cause fires is 20%, but with a .5km stealth distance to tangle with any other nation DD and stand a chance in my Minekaze it is one hell of an uphill battle lol. Each time we tangled he caused a fire if he was able to get 3 volleys off. IJN DDs are the stealth ship, yes, but you still have a job of scouting and capping; with the spotting distance so small between DDs and every other nation DD more powerful in a one on one scrap I hope WG do not nerf the IJN DDs anymore. On another note: After returning to the game after 6 months I did several Co-Op missions before jumping back into random games. I urge all IJN DD players to hop back into Co-Op every once in a while, the AI is unforgiving when you get spotted and you can expect fire from at least 3 ships straight away (played around 30 games before going back to Random). This is now a great training ground for IJN DDs IMO, especially the way things are in the game.

DD player myself, but if BB players didn't move forward before the patch and now won't after the patch, isn't that down to the players? Why should those players then be allowed to make a list of buffs for themselves and nerfs for others as a condition for coming forward? I see plenty of games where a 3 line push (DD/CA-CL/BB) can support your team and decimate an enemy; I have also seen a frequent scenario where I go forward to spot or cap and find my BBs sitting pretty at the back. It is strange to be out at front and turning away in my Minekaze from any other nation DDs when spotted, to see the BBs at the back doing the same thing! A simple fix would be to judge where you think the ships should operate (distance wise) and cap the range of artillery - simple, you don't get stuck in, you don't get points. As it is the same rule for all BBs then this seems fair(?)

Northernbloke: Agree; I do not understand the need to protect those that are toxic and, in general, act as a negative contributor to the game. If you are blatantly killing fellow team mates in game or constantly bad in chat, then why wouldn't WG want to do something(?) The difficulty comes with understanding what is good and what is bad, everyone has their own tolerance levels. For me Kashuken's reply was negative and possibly meant to antagonise, but I saw it as no more than a school ground 'I can say what I want and you can't do anything! (tongue stuck out)' remark. The added 'special' in front of the snowflake label was indeed special lol. Thankfully I have found most people can recognise if someone is being toxic and will usually ignore what they have to say (or have a laugh at it as above).

I can only give you info on the way I tended to play (I have been away for around 6 months); so please bare in mind mechanics may have changed a bit (or not lol). 1. In the main I found you are unfortunately on your own at the start of the game (unless they have released guild play?); let others know what your intentions are early and hopefully the group of individual players will quickly support each other and become a team. 2. As a DD player (Minekaze) I tend to head for a Cap point, let others know and hope for support; keep your eye on the mini map though because if you do not have support, you only have yourself to depend on! You may be able to read your teams intention and change your initial course to join a push (or be a pain in the * and hold the enemy up on the other side of the map (remembering a 2 brothers map scenario where me and another 2 ships held a big push while the rest of our team attacked on the other side)). If possible I will take Cap, if not at least I am hopefully stopping an enemy DD from doing so and scouting the position of the enemy team for my side. 3. Know the game. Sounds harsh but different maps have different objectives and on a map with Cap points you have to try and win them to win the game (unless it just turns into a massive slugfest lol). Unfortunately us DDs are the ideal ships to probe forward for our team mates (of course there are planes as well but we have the ability to stay in an area and harass). 4. If you are worried about going forward or don't communicate your intentions, this can sometimes leave your team in the dark and affect how they approach the game; gameplay becoming disjointed. Last thing, unfortunately there are people who play the game where whatever you do, it just ain't going to be good enough! But they are the minority (or at least were), take solace that you are doing what you can for your team, communicate, and if needed get in there.You may die but your team could end up winning all because of you (its war, death is a distinct possibility lol).

Don't think so; I would say the Shim is the only ship that could stagger its torp launches. Don't get me wrong as I haven't even played past tier VI IJN DD, but the Shim is the only ship that I may have considered grinding for. With its reload time of 2.5-3 mins, but a 3x 5 torpedo spread, I see it as a ship that is as near to the lower end DD type game with the Minekaze; where I can get in close launch one, maybe two sets of torps but hunt in a forward position scouting for my team, highlighting enemy and staggering my torp launches over the 2 mins so I don't get bored waiting for the reload. Lower that enemy HP so your fellow CA/BB/CVs can finish them off. Also by spreading your torps over 2-3 targets hopefully you are giving them something else to think about whilst engaging with the rest of your team. The more enemy you can disrupt the better. I would find the game too boring if I launched all torps and hoped for hits from a distance, then had to wait 3 mins for the reload. I far prefer the dynamics of lower tier play and thankfully there are many good players at those tiers who stay there; so you still have a challenge.

Didn't realise the topic was about stats. Pretty poor reply really. Back on subject, I asked the same question a while back as aircraft would restrict my play as a DD captain. Managing to sink someone but have their plane continue to circle was a pain (but probably not as much as the sinking bit!). It was also annoying when a squadron would sit above my Minekaze until I had retreated to a CA or at least out of range of everything on the map that could see my 'Christmas Piñata' paint job and unleashed hell! Basically I was complaining because the planes were highlighting me leading to death by artillery, or causing me to have to adjust course or be spotted, and then killed! Pretty lame complaint really, as I pretty much do the same to others with my torpedoes! Just take it as part of the game now, realistic or not this is a 'war' game, expect your initial plan may not survive first contact. It's not as if planes are warping the laws of reality by staying in the air for the period of time they do really.

Fair comment, I agree on the MM issue especially. I thought there was a patch that was supposed to level out the DDs per team as well as trying to match the roles (torp/gunboats).

Yes, thank you Ghostbuster. Not quite the wrecking machine; maybe that is why the stats reflect that fact. Although we do now have another element that sits alongside a possible change to repair costs - the ease that some ships can lose guns. Another thing that could be looked at, as although they are DDs, they are ships that could help fight the Shim as long as they come out of the corner. Unsure of the numbers but what did you think of the sub 2 min launch of torps (for all DDs) but with a lesser payload; or if the torps are the issue as many have stated what about a sub 2 min with the same payload but less torps, say something like 2x 4 for the Shim. This would break up the torps and maybe with an improved balancing in MM (I know we can dream) and a return of CVs we have a better and more exciting game.

Many thanks mtm78, it sounds more like the ease of damage occurring is maybe as much to blame as the firepower of any ship. Something else that adds to the pain of repair costs I'm guessing.

Thank you for your post as the reference regarding CVs scouting ahead allows me to say a big thank you to those CVs that have the opportunity to do so. It is really appreciated and although it doesn't bring me close to tears in appreciation (honest), it does give my wife a good laugh when I am shouting 'thank you, thank you; now that's what I'm talking about!' at the computer. I love it when a team can gel. I did say 'opportunity' and 'can' as sometimes we can't please everyone with what we are doing and I know other players could have higher priorities. But those times when it works, well that is what makes the game enjoyable.

Sorry, are you saying the Shimkaze causes damage with every volley and is considerably better than other DD ships guns or not? It now sounds as if you are saying it doesn't pack a better punch than other DDs? If it has a better chance of causing damage or fire how much is that chance and how does that equate to the firepower of other DDs? And sorry to bombard you with questions but why does the ease of damage taken by certain DDs become the fault of the Shimkaze (unless that is a direct reference to it causing damage with every volley)?

Thank you Ghostbuster, I do not deny what either you or 159Hunter are saying: Shimkaze guns are so good they destroy something with every salvo and deal 3k+ damage every time. It actually starts to sound like the DD hunter you are both crying out for. One of you should start a thread regarding the Shima's over powered guns; they sound ridiculous. (I am being serious). Edit: My question is now why is every other DD so inferior?

Wow! I am aware that the IJN artillery has a higher percentage to cause fires but every time they hit they destroy something is ridiculous; even I have a hard time defending that one!!! In fact I can't understand why more people are not complaining; forget the torp complaints if the guns can do that kind of damage!!! I wish the lower tiers were that effective lol. I was being perfectly straight with the weapon limits. Why do you think I was not? If this is a game where every ship should have an equal chance of killing another and you are limiting one ships weapon/damage ability why would you not do that across the board? Seriously. You seemed to be falling into the class = ability to kill trap. The classes still retain the speed/size/HP differences etc, now they will all have to decide what target to choose! I also gave other possible solutions in the same post to MudMonkey that could be considered, but if you think I was mocking you then I think it is you that should ask why you are restricting a ship ability to do damage in a match when we have already agreed it is doing no more damage than any other DD. If I am mocking you then I'm not sure what you are doing. Granted I am taking into account some CA players stating they can be wacked hard by one salvo from a BB and therefore compared that to a torpedo strike and limiting the number of torpedoes. But we can look at fire rates and damage ability and work it all out; the advantage will still be with the bigger ships because of their HP but it will be completely fair, everyone able to kill a certain number of ships they just need to decide which ones. Or are you saying only the bigger ships get to kill everything on the map? Why do you think it is alright to limit one ship but not another in an equal way?