Date_A_Bullet

But the balance is ... well not broken, but weird. A single BB cant do crapagainst a single DD in 1v1, unless the destroyer is dumb. But on paper that SHOULD be okay, since DDs are meant for lone-wolf-fights (thats why too much DDs are broken, for god sake, CAP DDs) On the other hand: As CA in 1v1 with a BB, you can HE Spam and dodge, or in case of the other nations, go in and torp. Or you can just disengage. I killed more Yamatos with my Hindenburg than i killed with my Iowa or Tirpitz together. But I'd prefer a 1v1 with my Tirpitz against a Yamato over a invisible-HE-Spam Zao at any time. Ofc, the thing that protects you in all these cases is teamplay, because 1v1 should not happen. The main issue with balancing this game, is that most people in random games dont play their roles as they are meant to be. And i think balancing everything for random matches would almost completely break ranked and team battles. So i guess we have to live with some issues.

Yea no, the cyclone dosent fight camping at all. When i first read about the weather feature i was amazed and hoped that exactly that would happen. But no, it didnt. The cyclone just takes the tension of the battle away, slows everything down and buffes only fast ships. Slow ships become either easy targets, or just lose the cap race. Besides the nice visuals, i dont like it at all. North went from my favorite map to my most hated now. Okay thats not true, ocean is still the most boring map.

Everyone crying for "op torpedoese" i see in this forum is well.... i wouldt call them experienced players. Which voice do you think has a bigger impact for Wargaming, new players just unlocking their Tier 4 BB, or ppl with a Yamato or Montana in their port?

Exactly. And i see no one has quoted yet.Quote the BB community crying for high tier japanese DD nerf, prove the blaming towards us - or stop spreading these idiotic lies.

That is the truest sh1t ever.And its one reason i think, no balance change will never be able to get rid of camping BBs, especialy with the high tier repair costs.

Do i get it right? You complain that 2 max tier counters take you out of the game, while you get no help from your team? Whats next? A battleship captain, want to be able to fight 2 Shimakaze at the same time wthout team support?

Quote me the BB players wanting nerfs for other classes. Pre-0.5.5 and after.The stage is yours.

Exactly. Half-angry rant incoming. Well okay, its more some kind of being-annoyed-rant. Its the same thing with IJN-DDs: The DDs and torpedoes never were OP, it just were too much of them. And the games with 5+ IJN-DDs still happen after the patch. But with more people switching to US and RU DD-lines, the rise of HE spam is becoming a thing. Ive already predicted this when i first read the 0.5.5 patch notes. The patch fixed not one single one balance issue. -> IJN-Torpedo spams can still happen. -> HE-Spam is going to replace the IJN-Torp-Spam, where it is missing. I actually can understand, why people with T8+ BBs just camp these days. No one wanna die against a spam, you cannot counter - and pay a high number of credits at the end of the battle. Torpedoes can be dodged, long-range torps can be spotted by planes or DDs and become completely useless, but HE-Spam? No matter what caliber, no matter what angle they hit - you cant do nothing about it. So the only way is to stay at distance - which is boring as feck and sometimes even completely useless. The DDs decide the game alone most of the time. The HE-Spam of a SINGLE cruiser against his COUNTER should not be able to kill the BB - or a thing, the BB has to be afraid of. That just breaks the game balance in every way. If you encounter a T8 BB in yur Cleve, you retreat and attack with your team. US cruisers are pure support ships, they dont even have torps to be able to outplay a BB in close combat. You are not supposed to 1v1 battleships with (US) cruisers. You can ask the same question from a BB view: What are you supposed to do, if you are a lonely North Carolina, and encounter a Shimakaze or other T10 DD, spamming HE from invisibility? You can try your luck but you are supposed to get team support as well. You can do NOTHING as North Carolina in this case without team support, why should you be able to do something with your T6 cruiser against a T8 BB? You are not supposed to 1v1 your counter, especially if the counter is 2 tiers above. Conclusion: The HE Spam is not op, but toxic, just as the torpedo spam. Camping is still rewarded, which kills the fun for all other classes too most of the time. The game balance remains broken for me, as long camping is dominating the game, while the brave BBs at mid range, supporting their cruisers and destroyers, get burned down and are punished after the match with insane repair bills. Even tho the best range for a BB to be effective should be around 15km. Maybe the amount of players in random battles should be reduced. Everything becomes broken when it is spammed. The ranked 7v7 battles always felt much healthier balanced to me, even tho they are not perfect either. Maybe 10v10 instead of 12v12 matches would already fix some things. Oh and ofc: Cap DDs.

Still wish more utility with the weather. It just happens and there is nothing you can do. Sometimes its useful, sometimes you lose a game because of it. Just another random factor in the game now. Also some ships can use the cyclone better than others. I wrote in another thread, that it would be a nice feature to be able to turn on your ships lights to incease your view but be more visible at the same time.

^ This. Everytime i see a Tirpitz camping, my heart breaks a bit.

The damage the Tirpitz deals is way below average. Other BBs are made to strike from distance, where the disantvantages like slow turning of the turrets (and slow turning of the ship itself) are no big impact, while the Bismarck-Class is made for close combat. The Tirpitz is so fast and agile that you can fight even sigle destroyers without problems (if you know how to). And every target stupid enough to going closer than 6km will be wrecked. But her guns are weak. Even with citadel hits, the damge is waaay below average. Yes you reload faster, but you need to land serval salvos before the faster fire rate is really becoming some advantage. But here comes the problem: When they release the regular Bismarck, the underpowered guns will become a real problem. In reality, the Bismarck-Class (in fact all german battleships) had a smaller cal, but their muzzle velocity and penetration rate was far above average for that. Also the german guns were famous for their precision, but without the 7% module your Tirpitz will be a shotgun just like North Carolina - with just 8 bullets. Otherwise, you could consider taking the AA-Skill to fight against planes a bit better, but imo thats no option. I tried it and my average damage with her dropped even more. At the moment the Tirpitz guns have low damage AND bad penetration. The only way to get rid of this disantvantage, is to go really close combat. And on top of that, she has weak AA - considering the fact, she has already a little improved AA compared to the Bismarck, iam really sure, that the release of the regular Bismarck, will show the weakness of the class even more. The Tirpitz fits my playstyle (as cruiser main) more than other BBs, and i think i found a good way to play her strengths, but she has enough (too much imo) weak points atm. For example, its almost impossible to fight even a T9 BB if you cant make it to torp it. You lose at long range, you lose at mid range. There is actually already a topic about the 380mm guns, where the great accuracy and high penetration on short-mid range is mentioned: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/1947-big-guns-4-ger-38cm-sk-c34-bismarck-guns/ But i think Wargaming wont change anything about the Bismarck-Class, as long the Tirpitz as premium ship is the only one in-game. Conclusion: Tirpitz is amazing in terms of surviving, but her damage is weak to even underpowered. The Tirpitz isnt the cruiser-nightmare that it should be.

Stopped reading there

I would prefer a +/-1 MM too, but i doubt this will ever happen, especially at high tier. If you get matched agains 2 higher tiers, just stay defensive. Destroyers are the game deciders most of the time, so try to support them as good as possible.

Nothing is solved, thats the joke.Like i said with my NC game, torp carpets are going to kill you if they are coming at the same time from 3 directions, now matter how slow the torps are and how eary you see them. CVs are still too rare i agree, but i see aready more of them than before 0.5.5. And i cannot imagine that players, who spent time, effort (and maybe even money) to get the Shimakaze, will now just abandon her and switch to RU or US DDs. I still see quite a lot Shima's; Kagero's and Fubukis in my games. Waaaay more than Fletchers, Karbarovsk or Gearing at least.

Not all BB players are whiny whimps who just drive to collect torpedoes like Super Mario coins. I dont know where you (and Wargaming itself) got the idea from, that the BB-playerbase wanted the IJN DDs to be nerfed. Almost everytime I talked with other BB players who complained about the current IJN torpedo spam, the issue was clearly identified as the number of the japanes DDs, not their "op-ness". Then this problem will never be solved. Lucky one. I did. More than once. The main reason why the DD dominance is decreasing atm is imo, that there are more CV players now.

Ive already said this in another thread: As cruiser and BB main i have to agree, that the Shima nerf was unessesary. I never had troubles dodging the 20km torps. If a Shima can torp you as BB from that distance without one single torp being spotted by allied DDs, cruisers or planes, your team did something wrong anyway. Besides the fact, that you shouldnt drive straigt in line like a robot. If all these things happen, you deserve to be hit. The main issue is missed by the patch changes: The amount of japanese DDs. I had a match some days ago on 0.5.5 as North Carolina. 5 Shimas and 1 Fubuki in enemy team, 5 Shima and 1 Benson in the own. Guess what happened: Most of our BBs (incuding me) still got killed by torpedo carpets. If they come from 3 different directions at the same time, their lower speed and higher spotting range dosent matter at all. Add some IJN cruiser torps and your annoying torp cocktail is done. Dont nerf anything about the IJN DDs. Just Cap DDs, main problem solved.

THIS.The noob will blame the team, the RNG, or the Moon-Nazis. Everyone and everything, but never himself.Or the most easy way: Call the enemy a cheater.

Thats why i play my Hindenburg with stealth skill & module. Iam visible at 12,3km, the only way to get a good survive stat with that christmas tree of a cruiser. Thats one reason why the Zao is leading the stats. But the bad visibility of the german (and american) cruisers is another topic. And like BillydSquid said, dodging salvos fired more than 15km away is easy, especially with the 2nd command skill. Also, in my opinion: If you are in a position, where you can be seen and shot from 3 BBs from 3 different directions, you (or your team) already made some mistake before. When i play CA or BB, i RARELY die from a Shimakaze (i just can doge torps very well). I dont do now, i didnt before the patch. Back then, when i had matches with 4, 5 or even 6 IJN-DDs in a team, i just stayed back and let the own DDs take care of them first. But exactly thats the problem: Like i said, Shima NEVER was op, its just boring and annoying if there is one torpedo carpet after another, and all large ships just stay away and hug islands, while the DDs decide the game alone. You just have 2 options as BB and CA in these kind of matches: Go in, deal some damage and die - or stay back and do nearly nothing. Its not about OP or something, its just about how it breaks the gameplay completely and kills all the fun. Cap DDs.

There should be a feature, to switch on your ship lights in cyclone. To increase your view but at the same time, makes you more visible. At least you would have SOME control if the weather changes, unlike now, where it just happens and its either good or bad luck. With the lights there would be an actual player interaction with the weather, based on what decision you make (use the weather passive to sneak or try to see as much as possible).

Sold my Kagero, switched to Mahan. Thanks to the double-xp and Premium i already managed to get the Fletcher, so i guess... fair? Ive said this so many times, i said this in other topics, ive said this in the german forum: - The Shimakaze (or any other IJN DD) NEVER was op. - The Torps NEVER were op (no you BB-Camper driving in straight line, they are not) The domination of IJD DDs had 3 main reasons: 1. Most players can dodge torps, but still quite a lot cannot, even at high tier. But the one who cannot are the one crying the most. 2. The amount of IJD DDs. Thats why there is a call for a DD-Cap for AGES. If you get Shima torpedo carpets from 3 differenct directions as BB or CA, you are going to die. Simple as that. The global stats showed, that the Shimakaze itself wasnt a huge killing machine or damage dealer. 3. The lack of their hardcounter, air craft carriers. No, cruisers do not hardcounter DDs, ever tried to catch a Shima with a Hindenburg alone? Impossible without spotting help from own DDs or planes, unless you reach the map border. Iam not a destroyer main, iam a cruiser (and Tirpitz) main, and even I can notice, how wrong this "balance"-change is for IJN-DDs. I have the feeling, "better nerf Shima" is going to be WoWs-Version of the "better nerf Irelia" running gag from League of Legends. Please: -> revert these torp changes -> cap ... oh for the love of god ... CAP the number of DDs.

German cruisers dont get much love in general.

Camping / not capping / being afraid to get a scratch on the ship is still the main problem in this game. Even tho its not 100% the players fault, the harsh high-tier economy punishes damage-taking so hard. Too hard imo. I really hoped the weather would help getting rid of the camping, at the moment it does not (i mean its new and only North has a gameplay effect). WG really should work on that, its a good opportunity to get people actually in the fight without changing the game banace completely.

I just want game to be as fair as possible. If this is already enough to be called a "point/kill hunter who dosent want to have fun" than let it be. I dont give a damn about my stats i wanna have fun. I dont even have tryhard-stats but i bet you dont bother to get your facts straight before talking a bunch of nonsense. I mean whats next? Random chance for main guns to jam? Air planes that can randomly crash when landing? Lightings that can strike your ship and cause fire? Just dont make weather randomly change game mechanics, thats the only thing i ask for. Make it either: a) calculable/constant (for example: Weather stays the whole map or it always changes at a time mark) or b) only visual, no gameplay affecting effects (like on all other maps)

Where is the difference as BB to be hit my a torpedo wall of a Shima and get bursted down, or be HE spammed by a Gearing or Kharb for serval Minutes out of invisibility and get sunk by damage over time? If one of these things happens, your team already failed. If a DD can spam torps or HE shells for minutes without being spottet, your own DDs (and maybe CV) are sleeping. Or maybe they are alrady dead just bc the enemy was better. Sucks for you as BB then but thats how it is supposed to be. I already see the rise of HE-Spam incoming, if ppl learn how to shoot from invisibility a new kraken will be unleashed. The only really balancing issue i see (but that is already there since the last patch): US and RU heavy cruisers got radar, so they have good chances to fight DDs at mid range now. And for whatever reason the german cruisers dont. I mean, its not that the germans already had radar since 1934. Reasons™ Another reason why DDs should be capped: Unlike BBs and CAs who are meant to fight together and support each other, DDs are able to fight alone in the game. And thats the huge difference between the destroyers and the other classes, which is completely ignored by the MM who is treating the DD like every other ship. Just cap DDs at 3 per team and so many problems would be solved without buffing/nerfing anything around all the time.

No! Not more random factors for the game. At least for weather that actually influences the gameplay. The game is already way too luck-based (fire/flooding, module damage, magazine detionation, battleships precision). I would even prefer a weather that will be randomly assigned to your map when loading and stay the whole match. At least the weather would not be able to troll you randomly while in battle. At the end its still a game, and a game is supposed to be fair. Its annoying if you playing at north, you are in your BB, enemy in cap zone is down to like 1000 Hitpoints, showing broadside. Your guns are reloading - you prepare for the last strike so you can finnaly cap and win the match your team is about to lose and then: Pls just make the weather a plain cosmetic feature. Or disable gamplay-affecting weather at least for ranked.