arcticstorm123

This is just lack of familiarity with the playstyle, if you play them more controlling the aircraft becomes automatic and you have more time to look around. Low damage is due to demands by the playerbase, check the CV thread pinned at the top of this forum, you will find page after page of players complaining about cv's being overpowered, Wargaming accordingly nerf'd them back on damage and increased AA so we are now at the point where the only hope of a cv sinking a ship is by multiple attacks on the same target or finishing off low hp targets wounded by other ships. CV's are nice for a change now and then but don't expect mega damage at this tier.

You've mentioned several times you want her to be more unique, what do you actually mean?, faster planes, different planes, harder hitting?

Probably worth remembering it was the same situation in real life when Ark Royal had swordfish, there's a good book by a Bismark gunnery officer who survived the sinking (Battleship Bismarck: A Survivor's Story), he said they were so slow they appeared to be standing still, but they compensated by coming in low and launching torps at close range, I was expecting to get chewed up by AA in game but it's true you can dodge flack rather more easily because the planes are slow. There is a split between people who want historical accuracy in this game (bad enough Graf Zepplin has no stukas) and people who want powerful aircraft in game, Ark Royal would have looked really weird without swordfish, if you want faster planes grind Furious.

Careful, you'll have massed ranks of dd players after you armed with pitch forks and torches

Only played a couple of games in Co Op last night but according to stats most damage to ships 20,550, average 14,847, clan mate took his into randoms and got similar or better, I've not got any upgrades on her yet as I'm saving for a tier 9 CL atm and anyhow got the Furious fully researched and specced if i need a tier 6 CV, but Ark Royal doesn't feel awful, will also need more games, and to see what WG do to her, if she gets any buffs etc. going forward. My Furious has done better but then again comparing 2 games versus 80 is a bit unfair, particularly as Ark Royal is new, and in my case no upgrades as yet.

Furious has fewer but faster planes (with both the fully researched planes and stock) , and more powerful bombs but less planes than an Ark Royal squadron, the torpedo and rocket damage is identical, but again more aircraft on Ark Royal Squadrons. Furious has 2 planes per attack flight, Ark Royal has 3, furious 6 per squadron, Ark Royal 9 per squadron. Attacks so far in Co Op don't feel terrible using Ark Royal, particularly for torps.

I think Wargaming are nervous of all the stuff they got from the original CV rework, it's easier to slowly buff a ship up than introduce an overpowered ships and then nerf it back (particularly if it's a Premium). If it sucks that badly it will get some buffs but from what I've seen so far it's really not terrible compared with the cv's at this tier but not better, but then a Premium shouldn't be better than grindable ships.

I think people should think on what they want, we had pages and pages of angst about CV's being overpowered until they were nerfed back to their current state. Yes, Ark Royals swordfish are slow, but they are effective and can sink ships (in the same way and at similar rates to other cv's at her tier) , and despite the slowness they do seem to hold up similarly well against AA (though I did put a 10 point captain on her with the usual plane buffs like armour). I bought her purely because of historical interest, having the 3 day 30% coupon and nothing else I fancied, and being a Premium it could be handy for UK CV captain training and Operations at Tier VI. Every time a new ship comes out it seems the cry is "underpowered"....would you really, really want this ship (or any other ship released) to be overpowered? (unless you own it of course )

Doesn't really matter in game play terms, just have to sail into 2 circles in a row and the depth charges go off if you are over a sub, real question is will they be more powerful than run of the mill depth charges or have a different spread

@tinvek It's ok Trump understands : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-48622001

As I understand it saying "Oh you are from Holland" is like saying to someone from the USA "Oh you're Californian" (When they are from New York), when Amsterdam was a major sea port in times past I can see a captain from whatever country saying "Set sail for Holland" meaning the Province and that gradually becoming confused for a country name, or maybe the Hollands just had more power and so became confused with the country name, also boundaries between countries probably changed over the years with different Provinces joining. (was that how it worked?). Ahh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland You've got me reading history again dammit!

Been here long enough for that to be beaten out of me (verbally)

Be careful about prodding the Dutch (I'm a Brit living in Netherlands), they can turn nasty when roused, just ask the British Royal Navy about the Medway and Michiel de Ruyter, still the record for worst Royal Navy loss I believe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway

Well with WG guess it will eventually get sold for cash, just depends how long they make you wait, thinking about it you can also add things like Christmas containers for some ships

Thought they were Coal (certainly for Alaska), but I couldn't swear to it and I'm prepared to be proven wrong

Going by the way they implemented Europe in World of Warplanes your crews are usable throughout that tree, I think that's one of the major reasons for doing this reason for doing this, otherwise having one lone captain seriously limits the appeal of a ship

Yeah, must say I'm not a big fan of the rocket planes and the only thing they are good for is scouting and attacking DD's, with RTS fighters were a useful counterplay against the other sides CV, WG definitely skewed the CV's purpose to attacking DD's by including them (I can't remeber attacking dd's a lot in RTS unless they were after my CV) , I would welcome the return of proper controllable fighters but that wouldn't fit with the first person model that well I guess. I also think it's odd CV's AA is so strong, even if you find the enemy CV it's a kamikaze mission attacking it, never used to be that way, I wonder what WG were thinking, most of the fun in RTS used to be hunting/killing the enemy CV's

Yep, as someone who loves CV's I have come to the conclusion that for certain classes their own separate games would be better, people are too used to BB, CL, DD games and introducing new classes just rocks that boat for randoms and ranked (albeit CV's have been in the game for quite some time, the amount of nerfing after the rework to basically render them superfluous except for a few die hards was probably not what Wargaming intended). For Subs I can imagine having convoys escorted by some DD's, with scores based on tonnage sunk could be fun, similarly for CV's a larger map and a wider variety of target would be good and would make more sense (they are still fun in scenario missions for instance) and the ability to actually sink stuff yourself without relying on finishing off crippled ships, or losing most of your aircraft in the process would be nice

Yeah and I get that but you have to look at game balance, sub players need to keep up with the action, an 8 kt sub is not going to keep up with anything and it will just be plain annoying to play, this coupled with the restricted air supply probably means they will have to attack, run away and replenish and then mount another attack, also if they are attacked by a dd they will have zero chance of escape if they are only doing 8 knots submerged (with a limited air supply) and with their limited surface detection even on the surface you'd be hunting all over the map end of game for that one surviving red team sub. Personally I really can't give a damn about subs, they will offer something different and the event was fun but I don't think they will be as game changing as some people fear and I hope they are restricted to their own minigame, can't see them as something I would play often.

Don't want to hijack this thread to subs (though Friesland is probably going to be a good sub hunter), but after watching the latest Mingles with Jingles I'm kind of more relaxed about the impending appearance of subs (sub stuff starts around 6:00). Limited air replenishment means they are going to be tricky to play and you will probably end up with something like a stealthy dd with fewer hit points, late game they won't stand a chance

We are playing an arcade game which is about to introduce WW2 era subs that can do up to 20 knots on the surface or fully submerged and can't be detected with sonar!, any attempt to compare anything in this game with real life is an exercise in futility. Similarly how something looks on paper and how it performs in game is similarly flawed, I agonised for a while before buying Gascogne because it has few turrets and losing one would put you at a serious disadvantage apparently......not lost one yet, great little BB and had some great games in it (theres few enough players who will target a ships waterline, let alone turrets).

They don't tend to put XP ships in the store, so it may be you have to grind it out which is a curious decision given the number of Dutch players wanting this ship, I would have thought putting it out for Doubloons would be better but maybe it is pretty powerful and they want to restrict it. Either way it will be nice to have a legit Dutch ship in the game (T61 didn't really count). I hope you get your wish and we get a store bundle.

Looking at this latest post from Jingles it doesn't seem like there's too much to fear, submerged air supply is limited and takes quite a while to replenish on the surface, at periscope depth 50% detectable, map doesn't update if fully submerged, sub stuff starts around 6:00

I think the only way to make these new classes work with no grief in the community is separate game modes and encourage people to play them with better rewards,. CV's and subs could have their own extended co op games (for CV's current co op games are way to short, they can also up CV hitting power so you get the chance to actually sink something yourself without relying on other ships wounding stuff so you can kill it with your anaemic aircraft ). Subs for instance you could have proper bot convoys to attack (alone or in a team) and base the win on tonnage sunk. Trying to shoe horn everything in one game is a mistake, and it only causes discontent for players focusing on win rate or credit grinding, I liked the CV play but I must admit it does alter the game for the worse for some players particularly for dd's, subs will suffer similar hate but probably from a different class. There's a large part of the player base that like the 3 main surface ship classes, and they shouldn't mess with that, this my conclusion after the CV rework issues. Only suggesting co op because I can't see many people wanting to play against subs or CV's by choice

Not disagreeing, tbh my wording there was bad, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor 's was better, I wonder if they are limited in what they can do with the base game, hence the need to continuously dangle new shiny things in front of us, also new classes mean new additions to trees which translates into cash, either directly through premiums or indirectly via gold etc.