HaachamaShipping

I was so happy when in preview I saw Richelieu had plane. I bought Richelieu, upgraded it, no plane. I then thought, UI issue? But no. Plane is on stock hull. Then it dawned upon me. It's on stock hull. Seemingly, they replaced it on top hull? Please, WG, can you not give Richelieu silly retrofit? I don't want to have to deal with your crap hp pool and rudder shift just to get plane, because some folks got the idea to replace it with Bofors. Everyone knows that they won't ever shoot anything down. fighter plane would be much better AA. This is so sad.... REEEEEEEEEEEEE

Hello Reader, I decided to create this thread to share some of my personal thoughts on the Monarch, a ship that I saw already many people complain about, but which I came to appreciate ever since I started playing it. Given there might be players who struggle with the ship and who might be looking for how to put Monarch to good use (even if just so as to get to Lion faster without spending free exp), I thus wanted to share some of my personal thoughts on the Monarch, hoping that this might help fellow captains and maybe make the ship more enjoyable for them. Personally, I don't like the British BB line too much and I have been grinding the line only every now and then, giving it a chance, dropping it later on when I grew bored. It didn't help that I own three RN premium BBs that all were more fun to play than the Queen Elizabeth (which isn't a bad ship, just not very exiting for Warspite owners). I also didn't really find the appeal in the KGV and the later supposedly HE throwing BBs, so, yeah. But, for certain reasons, I recently decided to get to Monarch and tried to get at least decent at it, even if people told me it's an absolute turd. As I had enough time, credits and free exp to get past QE (would not recommend this to new players, but for seasoned players with a Warspite, QE offers pretty much nil learning experience) and work my way through KGV. Playing Monarch, I was pleasantly surprised by a ship that isn't OP, but also isn't anywhere as terrible as most people make it out to be. I had a few harsh experiences at the beginning too, learning quickly some of the limitations of the ship, but keeping these in mind, it didn't take long for Monarch to become a ship I got decent results with and that I felt confident taking into battle. I'm not going to say Monarch is the best T8 BB or that it doesn't have some noticeable weaknesses, but Monarch by all means is a ship that can be competitive in randoms. The greatest reason I'm not citing other game modes is that I had no means of testing Monarch in other game modes. We had no T8 Ranked in a while and T8 CB ever. If I had to make a guess, I'd say though that Monarch in Ranked is likely not top pick, but still decent, especially in early Ranks where gameplay differs hardly from randoms in the skill displayed. In higher ranks though, Monarch likely takes a backseat to the North Carolina for most people, though I wouldn't dismiss it completely. It's certainly not a case like T5 Ranked Sprint where Giulio is basically just outright better than some of its competition and there is practically no reason to ever bring a Bretagne, if you have any other T5 BB. Monarch is better than that. Also, I'm talking about playing for the win here. I'm very much aware that Monarch likely still is one of the easiest star-saving damage farmers at its tier (though not as silly as Conqueror). For CB, I'd argue Monarch is basically not recommended for the same reason as to why conqueror sees little use: Monarch just does not have the resistance against HE shells and the accuracy at range leaves something to be desired. You'd likely be better served with North Carolina or Amagi. In my opinion, to make the most of Monarch, it is best to take a good look at the ship and recognise its strengths and weaknesses. By translating the results into gameplay, Monarch delivers, at least for me. At its core, Monarch basically is what the description of the ship tells you: A King George V-class battleship that has been upgunned with 15 inch guns. Monarch keeps a lot of the traits of the T7 KGV and has only very few changes, which can be summarised as follows: The main battery changed from 10 356 mm guns to 9 381 mm guns. The light plating changed from 25 mm to 32 mm, which is normal for T8. The fifth upgrade slot has been added, which also is normal for T8. The AA got a few touches. This isn't really too special though. Compared to something like Colorado to NC, this looks pretty lackluster for an upgrade and there are quite a few weaknesses that stem from the design being basically an uptiered KGV. Overall, the weaknesses are very similar to the predecessor: The range is the same as on KGV. For a T7 that often is top tier, KGV's range was kind of okish, for a T8 that often sees T10, this range seems very punitive. Spotter plane helps, but still. The rear turret angle is pretty bad, same as with KGV. This makes it very hard to get all guns on a target without offering a ot of broadside. The ship has an all-or-nothing armour scheme that allows it to be penned by cruiser HE consistently. Same as KGV, though 32 mm means it now no longer gets overmatched by most BB AP and some cruisers of lower tiers like Atlanta/Flint and common DD guns will no longer penetrate the deck. The speed is the same as on KGV. 28 knots was good at T7. It certainly is not good at T8. Thankfully, it still is enough. The hp pool is the same as on T7. Lowest at T8. Thankfully, it this is still a very manageable gap to better ships at the tier, compared to cases like Lyon getting far less hp than ships like Hood and Nagato and being outdone even by the Kongou. Yet people won't raise a massive fuss about Lyon being super squishy. The torpedo belt sucks. Same as KGV. Inheriting this much from a T7 is a bit iffy at first glance, given that, as said before, other lines have far bigger upgrades. NC doesn't inherit the Colorado's 21 knots, gets a better deck, gets much better AA, Amagi also gets more speed, a whole gun turret more, better citadel protection, better torpedo belt. But I think it should be kept in mind that for what its worth, KGV is a pretty good T7 BB and Monarch did inherit also good features, together with improving in certain areas that make up the strengths of the ship: Monarch inherits the 25 s reload of KGV, but on 381 mm guns. While KGV guns do reward proper ammunition choice and have a higher HE dpm and fire chance, KGV needs the HE to actually have a fighting chance against BBs as the AP at range struggles to do consistent damage to BBs. Monarch guns meanwhile are proper high tier guns and Monarch still has the best dpm at T8. Monarch inherits the KGV underwater citadel. Like with German BBs, a hard to hit citadel does not mean you should broadside like a scrub, but it means when you have to turn or are in a crossfire, you have a way easier time to not get taken apart with citadel hits. Ships like NC, Alabama, Massachusetts or Kii all have a far harder time there. Monarch inherits the KGV concealment, but adds concealment systems mod on it. It's one of the stealthiest BBs in its MM spread, outspotting some of the poorer cruisers. While it has "only" 35% fire chance (which is still best at T8), the HE shell damage is higher than normal and only second to IJN 41 cm HE. Due to 25 s reload, the HE dpm beats IJN HE dpm though. Both can give DDs a nasty surprise though. While I can see why people might get frustrated with some things, what I see here is basically a BB that symbolises exactly what WG advertised when they released these BBs. Good concealment ships that are a bit lackluster in tanking, but with good positioning can have a great impact. It might be, that ironically, Monarch is the "lackluster" ship, because it isn't the cancer that its brethren below and above in the tiers often represent, when many people just fling HE across the map and annoy both teams with their gameplay. Monarch certainly can do that too, but the fire chance and the need for spotter plane make HE spam a tactic that is often not available and almost never rewarding enough to be standard MO. HE spamming in a Monarch is about as effective as HE spamming in an Amagi. HE shells have their use, but few would ever recommend using Amagi HE as standard ammo. Similarly, Monarch is a very AP focused ship. And it has the AP shells to actually pull it off. Given that Lion and Conqueror AP also is serviceable, it might even be that Monarch is supposed to serve as a learning experience to get away from habits that were often necessary in KGV, though the return of high fire chance shells lead many to return to brainless long range HE spam. What gave me results in Monarch was to play it like most other BBs, with a few quirks that were situationally handy. Play at medium range, try to put the dpm to good use. In regards to tankiness, top tier, Monarch is usually tanky enough to not worry too much, as T8s can take apart T7s easily if they play their cards right. Monarch especially outspots T7s and at 12 km with its dpm advantage is a foe that is very painful to deal with when it suddenly shows up. Bottom tier, Monarch naturally has to keep its armour in mind. With stuff like Worcester, Des Moines, Harugumo, Yamato and Musashi being very common (as well as the other cruisers with less dpm), Monarch can take some hits, but it is not some Bismarck that can just shrug off considerable amounts of damage. Here again, medium distance is advised. Monarch makes a great second-line BB (which means, you sit a couple kilometres behind the tankier BB, not half your range). If you find some ship to accompany that draws attention, you might easily be able to use the rear turret and use your dpm that is comparable to T9 levels really. Just keep the guns singing, smack those people with AP. If you actually do get attacked, angle in and go invisible, if the tank starts dying and the situation looks not good enough for you to keep pushing, just start your turn and kite. Obviously, Monarch often cannot afford to just play second fiddle to some bigger BB and might have to play on its own. In that case, use your concealment, islands, the minimap (with settings that are useful anyways, like enabling last known position) and your brain to plan out your positioning. Even at T10, Monarch can tank, if it is controlled tanking. It cannot Yamato-style sit bow-in and let a Worcester rain on its deck for 5 minutes and not care (which btw is also only something I'd recommend, if it actually means that it takes the Worcester dpm away from hurting allies that can actually be reliably penned by it). Monarch can still tank normal AP rounds and while HE hurts, often it might be that taking a few hits for the team is better than forcing some ally with less hp to take it or having the enemy overrun a position. However, as with all BBs, it's best to know how to avoid getting locked down in a position by being able to just vanish or duck into cover and Monarch is good at the first and second is up to you to plan out. Going up against targets that can hurt you, the best approach often is to use your dpm and just kill it faster than it kills you. Overall, Monarch needs positioning skills. It might have 28 knots and poor range, but if you ever tried make USN BBs in the mid tiers work, then you should know how to plan ahead. Monarch is not even that bad and it gets some tools like the concealment, which Colorado for example doesn't get. It also pays off to note that Monarch while not a Bismarck is not that special in its vulnerabilities either. Amagi, Kii, Richelieu and Gascogne are all as much coated in 32 mm armour and arguably worse off in the citadel protection. NC has a better deck plating, but when caught broadside, it gets citadelled easily. Basically, the only thing outright tankier in every aspect is a Bismarck or Tirpitz. But that shouldn't be too surprising. As for gunnery, Monarch gets a lot of flak for having inconsistent gunnery. Which kind of is the case at times, but nowhere close to how much people like to complain. Monarch's guns aren't earth-shattering like some Musashi at T9, or West Virginia at T6, but they are certainly nothing to scoff at. What causes people to be annoyed the most is their supposed inaccuracy. The issue here is, Monarch is not inherently more inaccurate than your average BB. It pretty much is your average BB at T8. It has British/USN dispersion model paired with 1.8 sigma, so it will get outperformed by IJN at long range due to better base dispersion and by NC and Alabama at all ranges due to better sigma (or standard deviation). It still is more reliable than the Germans and French with their worse base dispersion and same sigma. There is a certain truth to the statement that Monarch cannot exploit is concealment that well, because it lacks accuracy. I'd not say it is 100% true, but yes, NC can do it at times better, having also great concealment and incredibly accurate shells. However, generally, you do get results and compared to most others, if you miss, you get to try again sooner than anyone else (except Vanguard that shares your reload). Additionally, Monarch's AP is basically standard T8 AP. It is not like with QE, Warspite, Hood, Nelson and KGV, where the AP at times sucks massively, because base penetration is in the dumps. Monarch gets modern AP that is comparable to Bismarck's in base penetration and shell speed. There might be some that think that short-fuze aP will cause more shatters on BBs, but that's nonsense. Apart from the obvious anti-cruiser advantages, against BBs, the short fuze matters only at range and all it does is cause a shell to detonate early after hitting a thick enough armour plate. In practice, most of the time, it will not matter, because the fuze time is still more than enough to go through a belt, it just will not reach the citadel all the time. Considering how many T8 BBs actually have a citadel that can be reliably reached though, it's often more of a minor issue and when you brawl other BBs like NC, the fuze is long enough to citadel the crap out of that ship. And for all its worth, I citadelled Colorados at 13 km through the bow, because I guess the shell only armed at the frontal citadel bulkhead, not the flimsy 25 mm bow plating. Also, worth noting is that Monarch's shells have over 800 m/s shell velocity, being on German levels there too. Thus, while Monarch is worse than NC in the accuracy department, if you get surprised by a Monarch at anything but short range, you certainly get less reaction time and Monarch has an easier time to snap shots before something can get into cover. It likely isn't a replacement for stellar accuracy, but it is useful. Same deal as to why cruisers hate Republique more than Yamato. Monarch's HE is kind of interesting too. As said before, HE Monarch isn't really that much better than HE Amagi. However, there's two things to be kept in mind: Monarch has 381 mm guns and better concealment. First is a downside that Monarch shares with the Germans and French, having a gun caliber that can be tanked by quite a few cruisers. Unlike the French and certainly unlike the Germans, the high HE dpm of Monarch means that if a cruiser just keeps tanking your AP, switching to HE allows you to still do quite a number on them. If you can avoid getting torp-rushed, something like a Hipper certainly is far less of an issue for a Monarch than it is for a Bismarck. Similarly, if you are in a bow-in contest, 1v1 you win against basically any other T8 BB. The second factor of concealment is basically just that Monarch can try what often is more of a cruiser thing: Move up behind a friendly DD to a cap, wait for the enemy DD, then throw a salvo of HE in their face. Unlike the Japanese, the Monarch has the concealment. Unlike the NC, Monarch has shell speed and damage. You might not hit a lot of shells, but even just hitting two will be over 4k damage. Even for an Akizuki, that is about 20% of its hp. As well as some disabled modules. Monarch's HE is basically what British HE in my opinion should have been: a useful tool for certain tactical uses. Not an almost universal shell that replaces AP as the standard ordnance. Also, it is worth noting that while Monarch has lackluster speed, for when you have to duel DDs, you do have pretty solid turning qualities. while the unicum DD captain will still get torps off on you, it isn't rare to see people underestimate the Monarch in this regard. Given the torp belt though, I obviously cannot recommend blindly rushing DDs though. For build, Monarch is unsurprisingly best with a standard tank build. So: PT (helps with assessing when to use your rear turret, as well as being useful in general) EM (Monarch turrets aren't glacial, but always helps to be faster) SI (extra repair party) CE (get that meme concealment) BoS (would get this first, given that it really helps when you are a prime HE target) AR (your dpm is great and one of the assets of the ship. A percentage buff to your dpm is thus very valuable. Lose half your hp and you are at Jean Bart or FdG levels of reload). FP (likely the best finishing touch. If you actually try to AA spec this ship, which I wouldn't recommend, take either BFT+PM or Manual AA instead) Module wise: Main Armaments Mod 1 (your secondaries are poor and the AA is too fragile, so it either dies anyway or you don't get shot at) Damage Control Mod 1 (nothing else is worthwhile here) Aiming Systems Mod 1 (only alternative would be AA Mod 1, which would give quite the respectable amount of explosions, thus I wouldn't dismiss it completely. However, the AA is concentrated in mid-range and that's where most of your explosions are, like on all high tier RN BBs. They can't kill a plane in one shot either, which kinda sucks) Damage Control Mod 2 (reduce fire damage further. Rudder is fast enough. Propulsion mod on a BB is questionable) Concealment Systems Mod 1 (what else?) In closing, I want to say that Monarch likely paid a hefty price for its dpm and concealment, but I do see it as the challenge to the player to make it worth the trade. I'm not going to argue that people who hate Monarch are just scrubs without skill, many certainly have good reason to prefer the NC or Amagi or even Bismarck over this ship. Maybe their strengths suit their preferred playstyle more. I'm not going to deny that the others are strong ships in their own right, as I do not think there is such a thing as a truely bad T8 BB (though I did not enjoy them all equally, I can see different strengths and weaknesses, much unlike the aforementioned Bretagne for example, which just begs the question of why it has to be outright worse than everything else). Monarch might look like an NC for people who are too dumb to protect their citadel and like to shoot some HE instead of using superior accuracy, yet, a Monarch that plays its cards right will still 1v1 beat an NC, by breaking the angling deadlock with superior HE or by winning the broadside exchange. This also, in my opinion, is its main upgrade over the KGV, beng actually able to go toe-to-toe with BBs even when not playing on most favourable terms (including the enemy BB having a worse player) and the amount of cruisers that can tank Monarch shells is far less than with KGV. Thank you for reading this. I hope it helps. P.S.: A reminder for people who like the Monarch, there is a free permacamo in the anniversary collection rewards. P.P.S.: I am aware that WG is testing changes to Monarch's citadel. As I'm not privy to what will come of that, I did not comment on that in the main text. I'd argue that if the change goes through, Monarch might be worse off overall, as we can see with NC how waterline cit with overmatchable citadel deck works out. And even with the new repair party, NC isn't tanking citadel hits very well. In this case, Monarch will have to play much more careful. As an upside, the ship has quite the thick belt for its tier, so you can get away with some angling, but yeah, I'm not too convinced. Also, Monarch already should not try to bowtank Yamato shells, as shells falling along the ship very likely hit and overmatch the citadel instead of leaving on the other side or detonating above the deck. With the new citadel, I'm quite pessimistic about that as well. Monarch's new repair party is basically a Warspite heal, which is actually worse than USN BB heal found on NC and as the increase of recoverable damage will mostly just help with HE pens and overmatches, if you play it right (otherwise you might eat citadels outright), NC just eats less of those in the first place due to reinforced deck. Conqueror getting these changes and the lolheal on normal CD vs Montana with the standard non-improved repair party might be balanced, Monarch getting to be basically an NC that has less AA, less gun caliber, less accuracy and less effective hp in exchange for better dpm is kind of questionable. Even Vanguard gets a better repair party and Vanguard is a sturdier ship than Monarch_T for all its worth. Which is sad. Open this at your own peril. It's not important to the evaluation of the ship really.

Well, not much I can do, given I already barely play the game and am no longer spending money. So, no action required, I guess...

Exactly nothing in Yoshino's armour plating would allow a big caliber BB to cit where a Bismarck wouldn't. 25 mm bow and stern get overmatched by either, 178 mm citadel belt bounces both, citadel deck and slopes also bounce every BB in the game if angled. Literally all you got is hitting the forward or aftward bulkhead after overmatching bow or stern. Otherwise, your Thunderers, Repus, Yamatos and whatnot basically just do normal pens on a Yoshino, which is survivable with supercruiser hp. Puerto Rico has highest alpha of all supercruisers, by virtue of having 12 guns.

It's what kills you over time. And with over 60k hp and 5 repair parties, Yoshino is one of the better equipped among cruisers, most of which share the same issues.

Exactly none of what you said is in conflict with what I said. So I don't get what the hell you want to point out here? Oh, it takes damage in its 25 and 30 mm bits? Well, that doesn't mean it doesn't have a layer of torp protection over the belt and a pretty solid belt for a cruiser.

If you shoot an angled Yoshino, most of the time you won't hit the front or rear plate. The citadel deck meanwhile is fine against pretty much anything, because things just bounce off on the angle. So what? Consistency is the point. By the same margin I could argue that Yoshino could survive an AP salvo just as well as a Stalingrad, because the shells might just go all over the Stalingrads icebreaker bow and citadel it from the front or they might just all hit the Yoshino's spaced armour and do no damage. At that point there'd be no more reason to continue the argument though, because it'd be absolutely pointless.

The issue is, Yoshino is accurate for a supercruiser at all ranges, Petropavlovsk is inaccurate for a cruiser at long range. That cheek is widely overexagerated. It hardly ever matters, because it hardly ever gets hit. Here, comparison between the absolutely negligible Yoshino cheeks vs the actually substantial cheeks of a Yamato hull. Indeed, Siegfried could do the same. But Ägir isn't Siegfried nor is Alaska and Siegfried is a different beast from Yoshino, using most of all its extremely accurate 38 cm guns with AP, while Yoshino usually sticks to HE.

Petropavlovsk is to normal cruisers what Soviet BBs are to normal BBs. At long range way derpier, at short range more accurate. Yoshino had that dispersion already before the whole Soviet crap and it was then also used for Riga and Petropavlovsk. Thus, Yoshino, like Petropavlovsk is more accurate than other supercruisers dispersion-wise at any realistic range (it gets worse somewhere in excess of 30 km that you may reach if you used spotter and range mod, but no other supercruiser goes that far), but less accurate than normal cruisers at any range in excess of 7 km. Below 7 km, both are more accurate than even cruisers. At 0 km, they'd match a DD. Thus at long range, Yoshino is only better than Petro because it has HE that actually has useful qualities, not the 220 mm garbage that shatters on any reinforced plating, has no dpm and has crap fire chance for its reload. If they hit the narrow front citadel bulkhead, otherwise they bounce off the citadel side. And it's 25 mm, not 27 mm. Overall, any supercruiser should avoid giving easy shots at the bow, as you risk eating massive damage, even in Stalingrad, Yoshino, Azuma and Kronshtadt might get citadeled to kingdom come though. Anyone could potentially do it. The question is, what are the odds. And with Yoshino, they are higher than with an Alaska or Ägir. Siegfried is more accurate, non-supercruisers are more accurate, so yes, you could do it with a Moskva, but again, as with Stalingrad, questionable whether it'd pull off such positioning at that point in time, as it basically dies in a turn and is spotted from the moon.

Exact same dispersion formula and sigma. Apart from being able to help with that with 21 km range + spotter plane, the number of BBs towards the end is lower, so you can work with islands more to limit their ability to shoot you in the side. It has a weak point, but same could be said about Ägir and Kronshtadt. Oppenent knows where to aim, your tankiness is gone. Opponent shoots your angled belt, you can just go on. And opponents that do not have the overmatch (e.g. cruisers) are way less of a threat. so, it is no close range cruiser, but it's not some Minotaur that cannot tank anything. That's the question, would all shells land like that? Maybe, maybe not. Yoshino and Stalingrad are the only ones with such superb accuracy at such ranges among supercruisers. For others, it'd be less likely.

I have both ships, I returned a few days ago after like 6 months break, because I wanted to play Ägir. The evening ended with me doing mediocre in Ägir and getting one great game in Yoshino. For the most part, the appeal with Yoshino to me is, it isn't the tankiest supercruiser, but it is a supercruiser and it is the supercruiser with the biggest range and highst HE dpm. You can play Yoshino like your typical cruiser, but it will tank a good bit more than a Zao does. It has the necessary HE pen to go through all the 50 mm plating, so you don't get frustrated as much as cruisers that can't. If you do eliminate all the annoying BBs or are able to use terrain to limit fields of fire, you can also pull quite the stunts, given 310 mm guns with Petro accuracy are 310 mm guns with Petro accuracy. Would Ägir or Alaska pull that off? Maybe. They are less accurate and certainly worse in terms of HE. Would Stalingrad pull that off? Potentially, IF I could have gotten there with Stalingrad turning qualities. Which is why I don't just consider Stalingrad a better alternative, because 14 km detection and the turning circle of a CV is not as flexible and if enemies catch the side of a Stalingrad, you die faster than in a Yoshino. Lack of radar doesn't bother me, I don't consider it a priority to play DD hunter and if I just want a cruiser dead in smoke, spotter plane exists. Overall, Yoshino to me is just a rather flexible chill ship that I can play comfortably without tryharding and dieing at the frontlines, but with more consistency and tankiness than some Zao, more speed and bigger guns than Hindenburg and Goliath. And better accuracy and HE performance than Alaska or Ägir. Not saying Ägir is bad, still trying to get results in it, but it does feel eh. Also, because in terms of offensive power, Yoshino beats Ägir in basically every aspect, because Yoshino can do the same AP shens as Ägir, just more accurate and with HE that is more useful when AP doesn't work.

You don't have to love it, nor do others have to, but your response to the other person was basically just calling them unserious for liking Yoshino.

The main belt is 178 mm, the 25 and 30 mm is torpedo protection. If you hit the 25 and 30 mm section that is marked as torpedo protection in the armour model, you still need to go through the 178 mm to actually damage deal any real damage, but as the main belt is 178 mm, it cannot be overmatched so at an angle, you can get a good few internal bounces. Also, some ships outright lack the ability to pen 178 mm of plating. This also means HE and SAP that lands there does f*** all, because it is a no hp zone. If you hit above that, where it casemate armour, you actually do deal damage, but you hit above the citadel, so you never get citadel hits that way. First off, some people like this kind of play and find it fun. Second, once you killed big BB, Yoshino also can do some medium range shens and people shouldn't discount it. It has 310 mm guns with better pen (but not ricochet angles) than Alaska and the same accuracy as Petropavlovsk, not like other supercruisers, so HE and AP salvos at mid range can both hurt. USN CA/CL, Italians up to Brindisi and RN CL have a citadel that goes right up to the outer hull. Thunderer can HE citadel Minos. Dutch meanwhile do have a layer of torpedo protection above the cit.

Can't fill out the poll. Met some, but cannot tell whether they are weak or just incompetent players.

Having a lot of overmatchable plating isn't exactly new for supercruisers. Kronshtadt already had tons of 25 mm plating everywhere except main belt when it came out and only got the midsection upgraded to 27 mm with IFHE/plating rework, the Germans still retain 30 mm deck. Azuma and Yoshino as the supercruisers that are supposed to be most fragile not being tanky to the extreme but just being tankier than your standard T9/T10 cruiser is fine. If there is an issue, it'd be with large caliber BB guns that don't care about 30 mm armour anymore, but hey, we soon be getting HMS Incomparable... But as long as this is a general cruiser issue, not a Yoshino-specific issue, the Yoshino is still a more survivable than average cruiser if you don't try to do your best Petro impression in it. Yes, it will get regularly overmatched, but when your hp pool is this large and you get 5 heals, some regular pens are typically manageable.

2. I'm looking at it from a point of view of how useful are they based on what we can tell. 105s are not unusable, but 26 mm pen means they got limitations on usefulness compared to something like 128 mm. They won't be useless as the 90 mm Italian guns for sure, but they'd need some insane accuracy, range or RoF to make up for that to be top tier secondaries, not just passable. And passable might just not be worth investing in, not on a ship that has supposedly low detectability and short range, meaning using the conceal is recommended. 3. Given even the 6 km torp damage is meh, it is pretty safe to say that torp broadside hurts a ton. If it's Elbing torps, that'd be pretty silly.

If that turns out to be the case, I wonder how people will deal with Zieten being a better competitive choice over mighty Bismarck. Or they give them secondary accuracy of Loewenhardt and it'll be trash. On the caliber alone though, 105s at T10 is not very good. I'd likely just ignore them, if they aren't GZ (in which case, range is all you need). As I said, as many as Hindenburg. You could have Tachibana guns as secondaries, it wouldn't matter, these open launchers with seemingly decent angles, likely can decimate most ships if the torp damage isn't utterly nerfed into the ground.

Minor thing and tbf, if they weren't considering adding the WWI ship, it's a decent enough name for a paper ship. So, it's not like I'm upset. Indeed, looks very 105 mm on the Schlieffen and I do wonder how that means "good secondaries". It might be a respectable brawler though just alone because it carries as many torps as Hindenburg.

Or they just made an alt-account on another server. While people rerolling for the purple exist, I wouldn't make general accusations like this.

Only in WG minds does this make any sense. Cool to see German battlecruisers without extreme refits, obligatory Zieten looks like an utter abomination (but if one can learn to love Goliath...) and Prinz Heinrich sadly means that name won't be given to any P-class implementation. Sad.

So, wanted to talk about this ship a bit and not necro some thread from the ages past. Got this from the missions, decided to have a go with it. Seems basically tier for tier a better sealclubber than the Vampire. And that ship already seemed kind of silly. Maybe some tech tree counterparts beat it if you get a dedicated captain, but this ship is basically: Do some easy missions Get Tachibana Put duck captain on it Hit Battle ... Profit! If we assume that pretty much all opposition DDs have only PM and LS (which is generous actually at T2), you basically get a ship that has joint worst hp with V-25/Longjiang (7.7k with SE), can stealth torp every 22 seconds (with that reload the raw damage is a non-issue almost, just get a flooding to abuse the fire chance), has the highest HE dpm of all DDs at its tier with BFT (who uses AP anyway?) and the IFHE skill allows to actually pen 13 mm BB superstructure. 4.7 km concealment also is immense. Thanks for the ship, but did anyone think about the seals? You don't even need to go to the effort of getting a proper captain if you have the appropriate IJN DD already.

I know it sounds polemic, but is there a point to this line? I chose to play this on NA and holy f*** does it feel like a pain to play and looking towards the later ships in the line, I'm not even sure why I'm doing this. Like, on the lowest tiers, the ships are ok, but I'm not into playing thousands of games in T2-3 and if I did, I'd rather play a DD that can torp other DDs. T4 is very good, but Hosho tier. T5 is absolutely painful. T6 to 7 look great, till you realise you'll see so many T8s (including CVs). And T8+, you are basically playing gimped USN ships. I'm likely going to continue this grind, as I got little else to do until skill rework comes around to make life worse, but I do wonder why anyone would ever want to play these ships. All I learned so far is that given I got Anshan and Jervis on EU, the overall impression I got was that this line was decent when it came out, if not very good, but has been left to rot and is now decent to good at tiers where matchmaking is painful, while the high tiers seem just lackluster. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people can tell me what greatness I can look forward to with Hsienyang, Chung Mu and Yueyang instead of just going for Benson (or playing Loyang), Fletcher and Gearing. Literally the only things I found on this line that is great are the smokes (though USN smokes are great in their own right) and the ability to get a commander with improved SE and DE (latter which will be nerfed soon).

FdG was a national hero. Meanwhile Prinz who was what? There's a difference between using a long dead figure that has a great legacy that is of importance for the rise of Prussia and thus paving a way for the unification of Germany under Prussia and a Hohenzollern prince that mostly is just a member of the Imperial family first and foremost. It's similar to how France despite being a secular republic considered names like Richelieu, Charlemagne and Henri IV for their long-past accomplishments, but wouldn't name ships after late royal pretenders. Frankly, the name AL chose isn't very realistic, but in AL, who cares, it's Ironblood, not NS Germany. In the Third Reich though, some other army/navy commander would be more likely as namesake.

In all fairness, while nobility was no dealbreaker for KM names, naming ships after members of the Imperial family wouldn't fly with the NS regime given that they would be very careful about anything encouraging monarchism.

I think Surrey actually has less cit than Myoko (you don't need as much power to get those 30 knots), but yeah. Tbf though, broadsiding in a Mogami or any of them is not something you should do and while Brits eat cits easier, they have some recovery. More like another flavour of HE farmer. German and French occupy this niche too and all have different approaches. Up to T7, IJN has for its tier highly tanky designs, IJN across the tiers is fast and Zao typically ends up as long-range farmer with great ballistics. RN CA get tankier than IJN at T8 (Albemarle has poor armour, but great heal, Drake and Goliath are well-armoured though) and they all typically are slow mid-range ships.