HaachamaShipping

Give SAP?

And the two that can be obtained are kind of low dpm. Like, if you can call a Perth "spammy", I feel that's overreacting... Huanghe is even less.

Pre-rework, Shchors was a set of superb CL guns on a poor hull. Now it's just... why? Myoko brings like 3/4 of the HE dpm with shells that pen 32 mm, don't sacrifice fire chance and let's not even talk about the difference in tanking capability. Also comes with more useful AP and long range torps.

Sinop vs Shchors. One has hp, a decently armoured bow, good enough guns for high tier, the other has like what? Garbage for armour that gets citpenned by RN BB HE, a 900 m turning circle radius, ok dpm, if it weren't for the fact that uptiered it can only pen BB superstructure and has poor fire chance thanks to IFHE rework? Yorck and New Orleans at least got decent enough plating and aren't reliant on a nerfed 4 point skill to deal with higher tier BBs.

Nanobump

As long as it wasn't Two Brothers Epicenter. That felt just absolutely stupid, with the center being around that corner in the middle. 4x4 T6 with CVs? Or T4? Not sure about this one. If we look past the current CV CB, usually you don't see monoteams aside from maybe memes like RU wall. And most nations only have few choices, so if we take traditional format (7x7, max 1 BB), you'd see Kremlin, Moskva/Stalin, double Venezia, double DM, Shima or Smaland. That isn't exactly "novel", is it. Cuts down on Somers and Ohio usage, I guess. But most nations only have 1-2 ships that are "meta" anyway. Even with second BB, you'd likely just see a DM replaced by a second non-Kremlin BB (Thunderer? Ohio? Yamato? Bourgogne? All possiblle with the rule).

Are you making light of Conqueror and Thunderer fire setting potential? I mean, your Friesland is cute, but how do you like getting shot by 63% fire chance HE from 24 km away? Can your Friesland do that?

This is before IFHE rework.

As someone who respecced their Roma captain for cruisers and since has no Roma captain anymore... It's mostly wasted skill points. Is it situationally useful? Sure. Is it better than running FP? Certainly not. And IFHE either is unnecessary (Germans) or kills the ability to damage BBs effectively. The other day I battled some IFHE Massachusetts, it managed to get a single fire and kill a few bow-mounted AA guns on my Richelieu. It didn't do real damage, given it lacks the pen, but with almost no fire chance, it's really just poor. And this for 4 skill points that don't go into actually more useful skills.

That's not build advice though, that's you just not having dedicated commanders with high enough level. I consider AFT in general a worse skill than FP on pretty much any BB. Rather work with 9-10 km secondaries than without FP.

Scharnhorst deal. Issue is, mid tier 25/26 mm plating and high tier everything but DDs and T8 CVs is going to just angle and bounce your shells while more accurate BB with more devastating guns exist. Short fuse was a mistake on Flamu's part. Just the pen is crap. You can do full sec and die faster. A ship with no hp and reliant on broadsides to shine needs to be able to go undetected. Staying within 11.3 km most of the match just is not recommended. Secondaries don't kill things fast enough, Tirp wins brawls with torps, not secs. Also, one of the T8s was the Irian, which is a light cruiser and barely better armoured to a Tirpitz than a T7 Shchors, one of the crappiest T7 cruisers when it comes to tanking BB shells. Obviously, Odin has issues, because it cannot just overmatch the Irian. Yes, it does and is the main reason the rest of the ship can't shine. And what else are you going to run on NC or Roma? Secondary build?

From what I see, smackbang middle of the pack of tech tree T7s in WR when you look at the stats for the past few months. Damage is low, as you'd expect from 6 barrels, but it still wins, because of its other qualities. But hey, maybe @ColonelPete can provide better stats, given he knows how to navigate maplesyrup better than I do.

Now, can you make a balance argument though? I don't see one.

It's the best T7 range and vastly superior to anything on lower tiers, only outperformed by higher tiers. Feel free to point out though where Gneisenau is suffering balance-wise and how that justifies a longer secondary range.

Thing is, with an overmatchable plating and overmatchable cit deck, it can be being unlucky. Because however you angle at range, a shell that falls stupid enough bypasses any plating without even checking for pen or angle.

Conqueror has literally the same long range accuracy as GK, only surpassing the Bourgogne and Kremlin. Every other BB at T10 has better long range accuracy. Also, can be citadelled from 24 km away by Yami if you get unlucky.

Issue is, just because you think it is too large a gap doesn't mean we should get a buff. It's not a performance issue, nor is Gneisenau in need of buffs. And indeed, 8 km is fine at T7.

Gneisenau has 8 km max range and that is fine. California, even with secondary focus would be trash, because it's slow and cannot dictate the pace of the or distance of the engagement the way a 32 knot Gneisenau can at T7.

The best plan is to try preserve your ship. If this means lemming train, then lemming train, if not, then not. But it certainly means to not put your fate at the mercy of 6 random folks who may or may not support your efforts. If this was CB, making more detailed plans works, but as you have to content with random lineups of ships played at times by people with questionable approaches to gameplay... gotta be flexible.

Not every build needs to work on every ship. Otherwise, please rework DD guns. I feel like I should get more value out of gunboat Shimakaze. AFT feels overpriced. And no, I don't care how much Russian and French DDs get out of it. Also, IFHE needs another rework. As is, it's just not worth it on my Hindenburg.

Or they go look for their clanmate, so they can make sure to annoy the ever living hell out of them and ping them on Discord with the screencap of the kill to rub it in.

This. Also because Alaska is a good bit more consistent in producing results than Kii, Roma and Ashitaka.

If enemies line up to let themselves get killed by Shima, sure. Otherwise, even something like Fubuki can kill 3 things in one salvo. Just needs people stupid enough to die to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9duWcK6xeNk As to this not being reliable... sorry, but in my over 7000 battles, I have yet to experience the short range salvo where it just misses completely by no fault of my own aim in a ship that has at least 1.8 sigma. Angled Bayern at 20 km range, angled Massachusetts, one Budyonny that was finished off by the Amalfi. I guess BBs not oneshotting each other at any range is now a lack of stopping power? But don't worry, I ended the match with 70k damage (admittedly well below my average) and top of the team. Not really any complaints from my side. No, it's not a viable competitive alternative. No, I would not change anything. Secondaries in general are in a decent enough spot for an automated armament that acts in addition to the main armament. If there is any need for change, it's to make tank build less viable, but people would complain too much about that. Additionally, Manual Secondaries is the only secondary skill at tier 7+ that is worth the points put into it, with every other skill being basically a trap option that people go for that think that 11 km range is somehow necessary or that 11% increased secondary dpm is worth 3 points. And funnily enough, for the one tech tree line with secondaries that are supposed to be good, you can totally run manual secondaries along with FP and CE and basically have your cake and eat it too for the most part, because Germans can get away with that, needing no turret traverse improvements as two point skill, so you really just sacrifice BoS, which isn't too much.

The buff to AA is 20% bigger damage to flak buffs. It's likely one of the most pointless AA skills. But yes, T6 and below can go AFT and skip manual secondaries, the manual secondary skill doesn't do much and the secondaries still operate within ranges where their accuracy is pretty reasonable, as secondaries are actually very accurate up close, but have immense drop off over distance. For high tiers, on something like Germans, getting the range matters less than getting accuracy, unless you just want to watch the rainbow at 11 km of largely ineffective fire. I don't even take AFT anymore, just Manual Secondary + the secondary mod 1, so my Bismarck can still run cE and FP.

No, defAA is now in 5th slot, so, a seperate slot next to Damage Control, Repair Party, Smoke and Engine Boost.