HaachamaShipping

No, just held back by having worse guns than any supercruiser, except Graf Spee. And no, minor secondary improvements don't make up for 3 seconds worse reload. Monarch reloads in 25 and has proper guns with better AP and if need be, has insane HE to fall back on, Odin does not.

But one more of those automated fighters is what you get, because it affects consumables of the ship, not the planes. Imagine getting 3 more fighters, 3 more engine cooling consumables and 1 extra torp bomber heal for 3 skill points, ontop of another CV fighter. Starts getting pretty silly.

If you get pink just for driving into people, there's more to that than just "nautical rules of the road."

Bayern has literally the same accuracy as West Virginia though... And at shorter ranges outperforms the Mutsu. PEF beats both.

It just means you have to figure out how not to die to AA. Frankly, ingame, what makes a good carrier is the following: How much damage can it potentially do over a certain amount of time. The more the better. Can it deal with any target it faces effectively and if not, can other CVs (e.g. if subs are impossible to kill, it's not useful to say one CV is bad, but they all share the issue. If Indomitable can forget about killing a Moskva anytime soon, but Shokaku kills it in a few drops, that's very different). Do planes regenerate fast enough to minimise impact of losses. This is one important point that makes the Enterprise so strong and also is good on Lexington, while for example Graf Zeppelin is less great, despite having far better torp dpm than the Lex. Lex can just keep throwing out planes). Minor aspects like plane speed, maneuverability and payload damage are just contributing to these aspects. If you want to know what makes a good hull: High Speed (preferably over 30 knots) Concealment (to not get easily spotted) Good light plating (to stop DD shells) Good citadel protection Little else matters. And you can have a garbage hull and still be a good CV, just by having great planes, as Ryuujou and Ranger show, both which have atrocious hulls, while Furious has a good hull for T6 and is a bit weaker. Ark Royal is inbetween.

Take these two and you know what you get? A Shiratsuyu that is literally worse in every way possible, except for having a smoke and 2 km more range. But you got no gun dpm, the torps are straight up garbage and you wasted 2 captain points and actual money on it. Even the TRB you get is worse. That's not tolerable, that's just crap. And sure, sometimes you can create your inferior torp wall compared to Shiratsuyu, but frankly, you culd also just play an Akatsuki, create 9 torp walls that are more lethal than the 2x8 torp walls the Yuudachi produces.

If all you want is kill off a low hp opponent, spamming the superstructure a bit is an option for any DD. Is it a buff that might be useuful situationally? Sure. But it's not a niche. Niche implies this would open up new avenues of playing the ship. It does not.

Second bundle, but I have yet to go back to play this again.

Langley has no armour either. You can citpen Langley with DD HE. Both names were used by Waffen-SS, so obviously, for WG that's a big landmine to step on. Das Reich was certainly not a name ever used before. The term was not new, but the term as a standalone was most of all used for the Third Reich. Hitler avoided naming any ship after Germany or the Reich, because the sinking of the ship would be poor for propaganda. They even renamed the Deutschland to Lützow for that reason. Totenkopf similarly has no tradition as a name in this sense, especially not in the Navy. Historically, the sole carriers that got names were named after rivers (Weser) and German aviators and aviation pioneers (Graf Zeppelin and its sister ship, for which some suggest the name could have been Peter Strasser if completed). It is far more sensible to pick names along similar lines, just as WG did (e.g. Rhein, August von Parseval, Manfred von Richthofen, Loewenhardt). There's an immense number of other potential names, so picking exactly those two that were used by the 2nd and 3rd Waffen-SS divisions (you know, right after the Leibstandarde named after Hitler himself) is more of a case of you telling me why you had to pick these and not go pick some earlier ship names or just name them Hans and Fritz or Kraut and Rüben. Do these names make sense? No. Do they have a tradition in the navy? No. But same is true for the two names selected. Frankly, if these names had been suggested by WG, they'd be worse than any other name they ever chose.

flak stops spawning at 3.5 km, so attacking ships inside that reduces the chance of sudden flak. And sniping DDs with 6 km torps is... questionable.

No. It's a Nürnberg. Why the hell would she get a heal? Both are ok and Nürnberg is no tankier than Molotov. Molotov is faster though, has better AP performance in terms of pen and ballistics.

Thunderer: Best ship currently available, solid performance in pretty much any setting. Yoshino: harder to play, but can still be good if you know how to not be deleted. Not as strong as Thunderer, but balanced. Salem: Sidegrade to Des Moines. Pretty ok. Of course good if you like Des Moines. Certainly not as invincible as some Salem captains seem to think, just because of the heal. Marceau: It's not bad, but why not just get Kleber? Blysca: collector ship or for tryhards. Got powercrept and will be an uphill battle. Aigle: Solid T6 DD. Different from most else at T6. Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya: Pyotr is better, but Okt.Rev. is decent. rest: low tier stuff that I hardly ever play, that costs little and really just is there if you want some cheapo low tier ships. Save for other ships? Only if you currently have no coupon. Coupons will get reset before the steel ships return for coal and of the ships to return, Black's the best, Neustrashimiy is ok, Flint is good when not uptiered. Too bad T7 is uptiered frequently. Black meanwhile needs patience with torps and Neustra needs you to appreciate its Ognevoi gun layout with 360° turrets. Overall, I'm a casual, so Thunderer and Yoshino are more comfortable than some DD or super light cruiser.

What niche? The niche of being able to bring worse dpm than Shima against BBs and cruisers? I mean, sure, you can land some ok 3k alpha volleys on target, but do you think 3k every 6.7s will matter to a BB? To a cruiser, maybe, if they don't shoot back and have no heal. But you could do similar chip damage with others by just shooting superstructure. The only time these DDs are ever good at farming ships for damage is when they can fire AP into broadsides, but as said before, HE pen is irrelevant for that. Being able to damage most ships with poor HE dpm feels like it'll mostly be there for when you mess up, get to duel a cruiser and get like two salvos in before getting blown up. It does literally nothing about the reasons why these DDs suffer, nor does it give them any real role. They, like the Hipper pretty much will just suffer from basically having so many different "strengths" that do not mesh together and leave them wanting for a working concept. HE pen with no HE dpm, AP dpm without any further improvements of the AP, hydro without concealment, lackluster in most other areas. And with cruisers you see where this leads to: Ships that perform are the ones like Nürnberg, Yorck, Mainz, Hindenburg, ships that have reasonable HE dpm and basically spend their game spamming HE across the map, until someone gives broadside at mid range. Ships like Nürnberg, Mainz and Hinden also outdpm a good few other ships. Hipper meanwhile does not outdpm anything but Eugen, thus is stuck with two underwhelming ammunition types unless someone's dumb enough to show broadside (and unlike Atago with its concealment and accuracy is worse at the surprise blab). Consequentially, Hipper is at the bottom of T8 cruisers. And among DDs, German DDs certainly are not top tier dpm the way Hindenburg (as a CA) or Nürnberg are among their peers. And if you think this allows a Z-52 with 15 cm guns to gun down radar cruisers, I have bad news. Even if you replace all 128 mm guns for the same amount of 15 cm ones, you're stuck with poor dpm and a non-regenerating hp pool of way less than even the lightest radar cruisers you meet.

Imo, no, it doesn't call into question German secondary build. German secondary build is being called into question by German tank build. But if you compare it to other secondary builds: USN secondary build: Arguably best competitor. Great accuracy, might delete DD well, Okish vs 25/26 mm with IFHE, which basically nuukes the fire chance for an additional 4 skill points. 27 mm doesn't even care. French secondary build: Even worse pen than the USN guns, high level 152s don't get the 1/5 rule of CLs, so you'll never get good enough pen to pen 32 mm. 100 mm guns are utter trash except for fire chance. Might set BBs on fire, certainly will not reliably protect vs anything though. Shikishima secondar build: 30 mm pens cruisers well and I'd leave it at that. The entire ship is a pretty poor secondary platform, not just because of citadel, but also because you'd want skills like EM for your main battery. Unlike on Germans, where you can run 3 4-point skills and ignore EM (or AR). And sure, you can just run the build without FP nor CE, but don't expect to perform better than GK that can still get one or both of it, depending on how deep it goes into secs. Germans basically can afford the secondaries at the lowest cost. You can integrate a minimal sec build into what otherwise is tank build for okish secondaries in a tank build. You can go full AFT + Manual Secondaries and still get FP, which is not to be underestimated. And let's be real, FP GK vs 32 mm Repu is not even a contest as to who will win most of the time, the 15 cm guns will even pen Ohio and Yashima is just not going to be a brawling platform and basically just has some extra tools to combat DDs or cruisers, which is nice, but certainly not the kind of all-round decent performance Germans deliver.

Buff is buff, but overall, kind of missing the point. German DDs suffer from having mediocre torps, mediocre to garbage detection, absolute trash HE dpm, underwhelming smoke, all so you can get a hydro that situationally is useful and AP dpm... which requires people to broadside. Having HE pen might sound exciting... until you realise: Against DDs it is pointless. You'll never smoke up to farm damage with guns, given your HE dpm is crap, your smoke is poor and you are just not an Akizuki that can throw out the hurt like a cruiser. All you do is waste a smoke to give your position away, not spot and not line up your torps, which aren't great, but still better than guns. If you can take your time to smoke up and farm gun damage, it likely is that you want to farm AP damage, in which case, HE pen doesn't matter. Aside from shooting from smoke, you cannot gun, because these are not open water gunboats. And boy, do I not want to see German DDs camp behind islands just so they can fire their garbo HE at targets instead of spotting for ships with actual dpm. 2200 damage is pretty crap, considering the typical DD gun has 1.8k alpha, but fires every 3-5s and the IJN 127s have 2150 alpha, with a reload of 5.7 to 7 seconds at high tier and 6 guns. The only cruisers you can match in HE dpm with a 15 cm Z-23 for example are the Hipper and Prinz Eugen. Two cruisers that have similar issues of being held back by crap HE dpm while their AP is not a reliable source of damage. Just, those can gun around the whole game till they die, Zs cannot.

As others said, German carriers are already pretty far in development. Weser already is T6, not T8. T6 being a far better place for the design. Historical plane loadouts don't matter to WG. Flugzeugträger I and Jade-class have the issue of basically being garbage. Their stats make them worse than Zuihou that was at T5. For T6, they are just crap. T4, they are too big. But Shin'yo showed what a CV on that basis looks like and it's not great. Naming carriers like SS Divisions is wrong on so many levels... just, why?

People in a mode designed to test subs and ASW play primarily subs and ships that are effective at ASW. Surprising? Some play BB to see how they will fare, but obviously the majority wants to see the main players in the new mechanic first. Too early to tell how it goes.

Yeah, but 3 and a half minutes in, Chappy or Georgia pushing in looks like suicide, especially with Gearing, Bismarck and Vladivostok around. Most questionable positioning in the image is that Hipper.

Given that whoever pushes into C cap potentially gets shot by whoever pushes C from the other team, with no easy way out, I'd say it isn't that silly of a thing to do. At least I'd not yolo onto that cap as a BB or cruiser.

Difference is, If you shoot a Cleveland with Tirpitz or Bismarck, it dodges or takes damage when hit. If you shoot it with Odin, if it is not broadside, it's just going to bounce. If you shoot a broadsiding Monarch with Tirpitz or Bismarck at 15 km, you potentially score citadels. If you shoot with Odin, at best you hit the upper belt, waterline hits shatter on the belt. And if you can't hit stuff at range with Bismarck or Tirpitz, that isn't exactly a ship issue. If you get uptiered against T10s, they can broadside at 10 km and not give a damn, because they are just as hard to citadel as you are. Just some have like twice your hp pool and even if they hit your belt, they pen and take 40% of your hp off in a salvo. Flamu's game was also blessed by the fact that most of the time, noone cared about him and others stepped up to do tanking. If you are forced to take up that role in Odin, because no other BB or supercruiser is on your flank, have fun. Pretty much any ship that doesn't just run into your torps is basically just going to laugh at your ship. Because even if you both angle, if they cannot just shoot your superstructure, they outdpm you with HE. And as for Scharnhorst, you may note that Scharnhorst sits at a tier where: its armour scheme means much more when half the BBs have extensive 26 mm armour has more hp, also compared to peers has better location of torp launchers for years had easy T7 matchmaking against cruisers it largely could overmatch. Now you can get memed on by Yorck, or even the likes of Algerie, Zara and Surrey. Odin basically at T8 is a supercruiser in a BB slot. It's got good armour, but its hp and guns are not up to the tasks and even if Tirpitz lacks hydro, torps are far more predictable with skill than overcoming lack of overmatch on cruisers and crap pen is. Just to highlight this, even Yoshino outpens it beyond the shortest range. And Yoshino at those ranges has dispersion that is superior to cruisers, Odin still is a BB.

Odin is more accurate, but the difference is nowhere near enough to make up for the difference in penetration and overmatch. So, no, Ofin doesn't magically produce double the damage at distance where it fails to pen belt armour of most BBs.

People who complain about HE spam in WoWS should experience WT's stock ships with no fire extinguisher. One lucky shot puts you on fire and you basically can watch your slow, but inevitable demise.

Rentals would need rework to not be too few to participate. Also, you'd see lineups that will just be there for consistency. Expect stuff like the priviledged lining up with Stalin/Moskva/Petro, kiting cruiser will likely fall back to Venezia/Hindenburg/Yoshino. DM/Salem misses a third ship, so might just not see play, Zao is not up for the task, BB is Kremlin/Yamato/some third BB, DD likely ends up with Gearing/Somers/Daring, if not some Smaland. Random lineups feels like more extreme version of cyclone in CB, where RNG potentially screws you over.

Give it half a year and it'll be the new T6 cruiser Novgorod.

Learn how to damage farm while winning.