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More like, if you have not much of an idea how to warship, have no limitations imposed by treaties and have almost no possibility to see the ship constructed, you can make sketches all day long for all kinds of crap, because why not? Gotta justify your job. In a country like the US or Japan, you'd also see a lot of designs, but often there are clearer design requirements, there's way more established approaches based on previous experiences (and less experimenting with things you never get to test and verify) and with treaty limitations, no reason to design a whole lot. Like, when the IJN decided it wanted a new cruiser class that would fit into the treaty, but be covert heavy cruisers, that meant pretty clear requirements as to what the ship should be and what they would go for. Mogami-class would draw from many lessons learned from previous cruisers, use propulsion arrangements and armaments layouts that were mostly already settled on (5x2 203 mm option meant 5x turret layout was kind of the minimum they'd settle for to retain their qualitative edge) and the tonnage limit they wouldn't keep, but still had to observe on paper, so radical experimenting with stuff that would add weight was out of question. Then it gets built and the IJN has its heavy cruisers and doesn't need a new one for some time. Meanwhile in the USSR, noone has any prior experience, so you get a handful lulzy designs that spawn more lulzy derrivatives, as they never build anything, so designers can just redesign things once they realise that something might be a bad idea or just think they could do better or want to reinvent the cruiser class. Nothing limits these plans, as the Soviet Union has no treaties, just the intention to build ships and thus the Navy has a need for new ships that won't be filled for the longest time. And you cannot learn lessons on modern naval design when most of your navy dates from pre-WWI. Not all ideas are wise. Worth noting though that there existed other aviation battleships and aviation cruisers (which weren't terribly effective), so the Soviets weren't the sole folks to come up with this idea. Also, in WoWS, it wouldn't matter.

Reasonable pricing. Reasonable ship.

How to make Pobeda even more balans: Add flight deck!

And in another video on German DD buffs he claims that the HE pen increase increases their survivability against other DDs like Daring. Zoup's opinion is worth pretty little when basic game mechanics seem foreign to him.

Pan-EU DDs seemed certainly scarier as an addition than these cruisers for my non-Pan-EU DDs. As do French ones.

You aren't a prime target if you never arrive at the frontline.

Scharnhorst compares to its peers more favoursably than Odin. Tech tree Gneisenau is not just less accurate, but has only 2/3 of the guns on a 6s longer reload. Tech tree Bismarck and premium Tirpitz are less accurate by the same margin, but they also have 8/9 of the gun count on only 3s longer reload. Ships like Vanguard have 8/9 of the gun count on 2s longer reload with similar accuracy and better HE to fall back on, Monarch has the same gun count with 2s better accuracy. Defensively, Scharnhorst is pretty middling for a T7 BB, pretty tied with tech tree counterpart and has an armour scheme that makes it though at a tier where half the BBs just overmatch each other. Odin sits at a tier where it is the lowest in hp by a pretty big margin, with armour that is good, but with less overmatch threat, BBs in general are tankier here. Scharnhorst at 30 knots speed is one of the fastest T7s, only surpassed by Hood and Gneisenau. Odin at T8 is middle of the pack, surpassed by Germans and French, on par with Amagi and I think Vanguard (if Vanguard isn't faster), outrunning the slowest competition by a whole 3 knots (Scharnhorst has 9 knots on the slowest, 6 knots on the second slowest, 5 knots on the third slowest). Scharnhorst just gets way more, or rather pays far less. It's a Gneisenau that pays 2 knots of speed, a bit less powerful secs and AA and lack of overmatch against BBs and heaver cruisers for a gun armament that has way more dpm and still overmatches a good few cruisers at its own tier and is more accurate. Odin pays 1.5 knots on Tirpitz and like 17k hp, as well as overmatch to get a hydro and accuracy (as well as some secondary rearrangements). It's got barely more dpm. Even by the sum of its parts, the Odin is pretty much trash. Prior to this nerf one could have argued about its decentish ability to set things on fire with Alaska levels of fire chance and reload (though not accuracy or HE alpha), but well, that too is gone.

Molotov. Fast, good AP for its tier, 30 mm base pen, so you need no IFHE and can still start nice fires.

German AA is middling, with German armour being a major issue for stuff like rockets. Frankly, if one wants the max damage for minimal losses, Germans aren't really the go-to nation to attack, Italians and Japanese are easier targets. Something like Nagato for example eats damage even from the crappiest rockets, while Gneisenau only gets damaged when they hit superstructure or if they are Tiny Tims. And Nagato has a grand total of 2 flak bursts and some meh short range dps that is insufficient to do much. Regarding Soviet ships, Soviet mid tier cruisers and DDs are remarkably garbage at AA and any Soviet cruiser is garbage at dodging any air-delivered ordnance. Soviet BBs are better, though there are situations where they are worse off. e.g. If I find myself with a leftover strike of rockets or HE bombs in front of a USSR or KM BB to choose from, I might just pick USSR because if I cause a DoT effect that's either free damage or at least wastes a damecon. Even if I do not return to follow up due to more important matters, one less damecon hurts when you only have 5.

Ya silly. You forgot one important thing. Odin has hydro. Scharhorsts torpedo attack will be all but neutralized by it! /s

Only in first test, then they replace it with a Luger.

Yes.

You are bothering discussing this with someone who filters according to most battles played, not highest performance. He did this already before and he will do it again. Frankly, is this how you want to spend your time?

Imagine carrying your sorry [edited]team and then getting focused down completely because you give bonus exp. Or carrying your team, then succumbing to attrition to some potato that got lucky and collects the bounty.

Poorly, but that shouldn't be surprising. That's like wondering why a Hipper can be beaten by a Yorck. Barely readable.

Sad thing is, even if you look at the justifications provided and at inquire with WG staff, you know nothing satisfactory will come of it. And sure, one can have a (bitter) laugh at the staff, but at the end of the day, their statements are about as valid as your average forumite, given that most of the time they get to reiterate what they get told and in the worst cases they aren't even in the loop, leading to situations like the Q&A stating that German DDs are fine, two weeks before devblog announces a general buff to the line. And you cannot fault the community staff, cause that's basically shooting the messenger. Yet, it shows the consequences of horrid communications, when the word of staff basically has little to no credibility to it either.

Also comfortably works in ops. Doubt we'll ever have T6 CB, though even then, Graf Spee is the T6 supercruiser...

Issue here is, bots are utterly predictable. They may use some valid tactics, but you can count on their script to be absolutely simple and that they do the exact same thing they always do. Players, not so much. Some players might be utter potato, but if they yolo, that may just be something you had not foreseen and it wrecks careful planning. But with bots, you know they'll push, you know they prioritise whatever they spot first, you know they aim for center of mass and they know how to aim for that, so you can reliably tank stuff on angled belt, instead of firing the nose getting sniped, etc.

Tbf, that's giving the average player more credit than they deserve. Typically, people focus what is closest, what seems most threatening or what gives biggest damage numbers. First is up to positioning, though Odin is pretty poor here with its underwhelming base range, the second depends on circumstances too and the third is just a no. If all you wanted was big numbers, you'd set Yamato on fire, not Odin, because fire damage is percentage-based. Fires are really just a minor issue for Odin overall, as fires scale with hp pool, what does not scale is alpha. A Hindenburg farming a Kurfürst for 20k is a different thing as a Hindenburg farming Odin for 20k. And why is she getting minor secondary improvements then? Like, if the spreadsheet says the Odin is too good, why give her any buffs? And if the Odin required some nerf but not a too drastic one, why not just nerf reload by 1-2s instead of 3s and leave it at that? Why tweak secondary and AA values by amounts that range from forgettable (200 m more secondary range) to comically insignificant (3 dps nerf on mid range AA)?

C

I know. Just pointing out, some people enjoy griefing those who have no AA. But there also are those who just enjoy screwing over the supposedly "good AA" ships.

Eh, you can grief people hard in other CVs too. Heck, you can grief in most CVs. I grinded up to Implacable, just because I felt like the British CVs are the worst in winning, but certainly one of the top in just being annoying f***s that put your ship on fire, torp ships that think they are close enough behind island cover and the rockets can still harass DD good.

Sure, but overall, one cannot say her plating got effectively nerfed.

Ah yes, the Graf Spee lost 3 mm on the bow and stern, meaning it no longer can facetank the 272 mm or lower calber shells like when it had 19 mm. Now it gets overmatched already by 223 mm shells. RIP Graf Spee, getting murdered by Cheshire since 2020. Sorry, but the 3 mm change to the Graf Spee didn't do anything important, because except for the absolutely pathetic Cheshire, not one ship in the natural MM of a Graf Spee cares about these 3 mm difference. Neither in regards to HE or AP. The Graf Spee meanwhile received extensive 25 mm plating over the entire midsection. If there has been one thing that Graf Spee might have issues with is how many heavy cruisers now have 25 mm, so they no longer get overmatched on the upper belt, only bow and stern. But in regards to her own survivability, Graf Spee is better off post-rework than pre-rework. And mid-tier DD plating isn't 19 mm. That's high tier DDs.

Also lacks in firepower.