HaachamaShipping

This is likely the most sensible counterargument and the one I agree with. Not that I'd be incredibly sad to not see NdJ ingame, but frankly, by that logic for example, we'd never see a Tone, because of war crimes conducted on that ship. And I doubt many people would bring that up. As it stands, the axis dropped no A bomb. So, this is in the realms of speculation. It is however worth noting that for charges like the indiscriminate targetting of merchant shipping, the Allies did drop charges due to similar behaviour on their side. The only exception would be the Soviets, because neither did they get anything for crimes against peace (who took out Poland together with the Nazis?) nor for war crimes like Katyn. But as far as US conduct goes, there is little point trying to argue a hypothetical scenario with all actual instances where western allies employed similar measures being taken into consideration at the trials. It might be worth noting that it might be true that this influenced US decision-making on dropping the bomb, but it is not completely clear whether it influenced the final Japanese decision to surrender. Not saying it makes much of a difference morally, because acting on wrong information or misguided assessments doesn't influence whether it was morally any more right or wrong, but a difference should be made between US decision making and Japanese decision making. Latter would matter when assessing whether the bombs actually were necessary or whether the Japanese might have surrendered anyway (following the entry of the Soviets etc.)

I answered it already yesterday. They don't. The 19 mm treshold of T8+ DDs is likely the most important one. you don't even need IFHE to test whether it works against a Balti, you just need to have a training room with a T8 DD and a T7 DD and then see how much faster that T7 DD melts. in my experience, given how close you get to DDs before they get spotted in training room, T7 DDs get absolutely melted by the secondaries, Meanwhile T8 can sit there, you are way better off finishing it with the main battery. But no, noone is answering your silly question.

So, Girls Frontline Summer event started and heavy production is out. Meaning, I also ran out of rations trying to build shotguns. Got one. With the guaranteed one from 10 constructions, enough for a MG/SG team. With the event, it's also the first summer skin, so I wonder when the others will be released on EN server. Then my newly-oathed raifu can have some fun at the beach.

The four things the Gneisenau brings over a Hood: Secondaries Long-range AA torpedoes turtleback Two don't matter outside 6/8 km, the AA is nice, but Hood still has silly rocket AA to kill planes that go for it and turtleback is for folks who don't know how to angle. and angled, the Hood actually is about as tanky as a Gneisenau (though it has way more hp at 67k vs 58k). The one fight a Gneisenau can try to pull off a Hood cannot is brawling some higher tier BB that eats its torpedoes, but that's it. If that BB allows you to torp it and doesn't just kite you and citadel the Gneisenau through the bow (been there, done that. Can happen with high pen guns at short ranges... like when a Gneisenau tries to chase you for a torp kill), you can do that stunt. For regular battlecruiser action, the Hood is however better pretty much across the board. It has the speed of a Gneisenau, it has more hp, it has more guns, it even has a main battery more optimised for killing cruisers, due to RN fuze settings reducing overpen chance. And in regards to burning better BBs down, German HE is pretty much garbage (4.4k damage, 34% fire chance), Hood HE is not great, but still better (5.3k damage, 34% fire chance). Thus, as long as you find folks who let you brawl them, Gneisenau is great, but as soon as you run into competent people...

I mean I'm playing the ship and apart from setting fires they do not deal damage against T8+ ships. If they had German penetration, they'd be shredding high tier DDs hard.

As far as I see it, they don't pen anything and have regular pen. IFHE isn't worth it either way though. IFHE memes are for Kurfürst and Gneisenau.

I do like the Gneisenau, rebought it, playing it every now and then, but frankly, I'd not consider her strong outside the randomness of randoms. Even for a T7 ranked, I'd likely not bring Gneisenau unless I was feeling like derping around. A well-played Nagato is going to give you all kinds of issues and lulzily, a well-played Hood just shits on you, despite all the crap that ship gets quite often (Hood actually would be my personal pick for a T7 ranked BB). If you just run off, at range, they have a way easier time hitting you than you have hitting them and if you try run them down, Nagato is fast enough to draw it out while it punches AP rounds straight through your bow or superstructure and Hood even matches the Gneisenau's speed, so it's just going to kite you to death with its better hp pool, better dpm (not just has it one gun turret more, it has better angles too allowing to comfortable point all turrets a target while retaining sufficient angle for bounces, while Gneisenau eats pens if it tries to use the rear turret) and better accuracy. Doesn't even matter that it has worse penetration, it wouldn't ever citadel a Gneisenau anyway and the improved normalisation means it is less likely to just bounce off. So, yeah, Gneisenau is tons of fun, most Germans are (at least up to Bismarck), but other BBs are quite often able to outplay them and are more in meta.

Ich glaub mit Adrenalinrausch, EM und PT bist du besser am Weg als mit verringerter Brandchance und verringertem Modulausfall. Module verliert die Spee nicht so häufig, aber es hilft zu wissen wieviele auf einen zielen. Gegen HE-Granaten hält die 19 mm Panzerung eh nicht, wenn man also zugespammt wird stirbt man eher am Geschoßschaden, als an den Bränden. Bessere Turmdrehrate und Nachladegeschwindigkeit sind da schon brauchbarer.

In principle, stay away for decent range, shoot things that support their position, then go in and kill the cruiser. In my example, if the opponent was setting up a proper position at their side of the cap and a DD snuck in in a position where I cannot shoot nor spot (or get spotted, thus not knowing at all whether my radar could even reach them), I'd have a very frustrating game, having to almost no real targets in range, if any, and having a weak position overall. But in practice, people just derp around and get burned. It doesn't help that most Germans, who'd be the best to dig them out due to their good HE resistance, are driven by some of the most retarded BB skippers around. So, in that sense though, I'd be careful with condemning the cruisers, because frankly, it's not that the cruisers require this kind of gameplay. They feast on this kind of gameplay. Noone shoots over islands and camps like a USN CL. But it's people being utterly unable to cope with it and if folks just moan and complain, sooner or later we'll more than likely see nerfs to USN CLs, because we are catering to the stupid here.

Als ob das Leute davon abhält einen dann wegen privater Stats anzupöbeln. Zu Königsberg/Nürnberg: Abgesehen davon, dass Radar erst ab Stufe 7 erhältlich ist (für Premiums, sonst Stufe 8), also eine Königsberg mit Radar gegen Stufe 4 in Sachen Spielbalance komplett bescheuert wäre, wozu Radar? Diese Schiffe haben 16,5 km Reichweite und keine Panzerung. Was willst du damit, wenn Stufe 7 Radar normalerweise 8,5 km reicht? Für die paar Zerstörer die man in der Nebelwand aufspüren will hat man Sonar dabei oder Katapultflugzeug zur allgemeinen Aufklärung. Aber normalerweise, such dir eine Insel, schieß auf Schlachtschiffe die 15 km entfernt sind und wenn die beseitigt sind, dann kannst du Jagd auf Zerstörer machen. Und das Argument, dass die Kriegsmarine so super Radar hatte und daher die deutschen Kreuzer Radar brauchen ist ein Witz. Mit der Logik sollte WG allen Schiffen auf Stufe 8 und darüber ein Radar geben.

I can see why DDs would complain about the USN cruisers, but honestly, for BBs... The camping meta isn't as much because people who camp islands are so brutally effective against everything, it's because too few people have any clue of how to counter it. And then they mess up and feed their ships to island campers, before going on and trying to camp themselves like idiots, because they have no better clue. Playing my Atlanta, it's hardly rare on islands like Two Brothers that you can camp a corner and basically deny the cap, not because it is impossible to cap, but because the DDs often scurry off if they notice the Atlanta and the BBs go in, then get shellshocked by the rainbow (not like the actual damage is that high on many BBs) and do all kinds of stupid things. They make some half-assed moves, losing way more hp than necessary, pointlessly, instead of either going for approaches outside the short effective range of an Atlanta or actually committing to a push and dig me out. And most of the new IJN light cruisers are similar, blessed with shell arcs and ranges that mean that beyond 10-15 km, hitting things that maneuver gets hard. So, you don't have to camp at the very back to get out of harms way. Lastly, Atlanta and other nation's cruisers actually got a tool to fend off a push on their position - torpedoes. A Cleveland lacks that threat, you really can just bush around the island and derp it in its face.

Expert Loader? Really? What do you need the ammo switching skill for? Frankly, imo, it'd be better to go for Preventive Maintainance (1), Last Stand (2), Torpedo Armaments Expert (3), Concealment Expert (4), then go for Survivability Expert (3), Torpedo Acceleration (2), Superindentant (3) and lastly Priority Target (1), I guess. That'd be what I'd use. I could consider Basic Firing Training instead of the Superindentant, but frankly, you still are crap at gunnery then and having another smoke, speed boost and torpedo reload boost is likely better. In other DDs, I could consider Priority Target before Preventative Maintainance, but it's frankly not worth much on the Asashio, because if you get spotted, just assume everyone wants you dead anyway. As last point it's likely better than Expert Loader though, because you'd fire mostly HE anyway and the few times you switch ammo, doing so normally is better for your dpm. For cruisers it may be worth more, because they can citadel ships, but what are you going to citadel? Chapayev? Needless to say, if you find yourself regularly at the ranges where you can citadel Chapa, you are doing it wrong. Better to get Priority Target for last point, so you can try gunboat at times and notice when you get attention, so you can stop at the right moment.

I'd agree partly, but it certainly is not this bleak. For randoms and Ranked, both kind of work. The winrates I get with these ships are in line with most other high tier ships I have and you can get decent results from them. A greater victim of this would be Friedrich der Große, which has about as many guns that are as unreliable and have as awful turret angles as the Bismarck, but goes into T10. What's that ship going to do with its 4 forward firing guns against a Zao spamming HE at max range? It still isn't hopeless, but Bismarck is frankly in a better spot.

It looks a bit over the top though...

True, but honestly, why play Gneisenau if you just want a tanky ship? Tank build, imo, is best for people who want to get past Gneisenau to Bismarck/FdG/Kurfürst and want to get through as soon as possible. But if not for the secondaries or AA, other T7 BBs are better. Or 5, if you get especially favoured.

Tried to play my stock Fiji, didn't go too well. Decided to leave RN cruisers be for today and have fun with a friend at T6 with my HSF Graf Spee. Not quite a Kraken, survived at 200 hp after brawling a Normandie and a De Grasse in a desperate defense of our sole cap point. It always feels nice though to top a score board with this ship and to get dreadnoughts. Harekaze is the better collab ship, but I don't regret buying the Spee one bit. For the last game of the evening, picked Gneisenau. Looking at the enemy lineup, noticed no opponent could overmatch my bow. Outcome was predictable. Seems today was more of a German day for me.

Met @wilkatis_LV today. Only recognised it in the last minute, because I was busy trying to be useful down South fending off ships going for our cap. Put my mind at ease to realise I could count on our last Normandie to take out that Giulio and not just throw the match. Thank you for your great contribution to our victory.

Well, Amagi is different from Bismarck/Tirpitz. Amagi has turtleback that kicks in at close ranges, where it is nice, but at longer ranges, it fails. Also, Amagi has overall weaker belt armour, so where Bismarck's belt actually can shatter some lower caliber AP at range, Amagi won't as often. Other than that, Bismarck is way better armoured to deal with HE spam, has not as good torp protection but a hydro and derpy guns means even if you suck at aiming, you still may hit. If you overextent with a Bismarck, it is way easier to turn around and run off. If you overextent in an Amagi, you likely eat still massive AP damage in the turn and get HE spammed to oblivion. In that regard, Bismarck is way more potato-friendly than Amagi. Though Amagi isn't particularly hard to play either. Most BBs aren't that hard...

My torp hit ratios are typically below 10% on DDs, but that isn't just dodging skills. It's because sometimes you just carpet torpan area for denial or torp a smoke to maybe get a hit or flush out enemies. Asashio won't ruin her torp hit rate with that, because torping smokes is just dumb in a ship that can only hit BBs and CVs. Nevertheless, it can be quite valuable. Similarly, if a Kagero throws a torp spread into a smoke and hits once, an enemy DD is dead, but you used 8 torps to get 20k damage and 7 will miss. If you torp BBs exclusively, more torpedoes will hit and amass damage due to the higher hp total of BBs. Still, dead ship is dead ship and I'd rather not compare the damage totals of a BB farming boat with ships that actually have a decent chance of killing a DD. Standard IJN isn't very great by any stretch of the imagination, but that doesn't mean the Asashio is going to somehow good. It is situational and kind of the IJN line turned up to 11, it's almost a parody of IJN torp boats in how it can do one thing great and sucks at the rest. At best there is the afore-mentioned Harekaze, which has guns that are great while retaining most of the torpedo power (unlike Akizuki, though the Akizuki isn't that bad either).

Sole Kagero to survive, so she really fits the tier.

When the juiciest target for your German CV are fellow Germans... Damn you, Graf Fratricide!

Strangely enough, I'm actually running out of weeb commanders. Especially for the Germans (while on Brits, I have a spare Nelson that can either go on a BB or on a DD, I guess). I did buy a Langley, thinking maybe I'd actually grind USN CVs with Enterprise, but oh damn... T4, one TB squad, autodrop only, limited hangar, 18 knots speed... Hosho was ok, but this is just suffering. Insofar, really hoping for Prinz Eugen and/or Atago to actually be available, given they seem like such obvious picks (and it might actually make me consider buying an Eugen). Also, got Hipper in the quiz.

QE and Monarch got less potent HE anyway compared to the rest of the RN BB line. But yeah, it isn't impossible, I just deem it one of those missions where it might need a few attempts, because rng trolls me.

It'd be a slower, but stealthier Minsk with less hp. And oddly enough, it would have more gun power while having worse torpedoes. Would seem interesting at T7, though I'd argue that at the very least she'd need Leningrad torps to not be flat out worse than the other Soviets.

Fun fact, Gneisenau was my first T7 BB (and second T7 after Akatsuki). So, it is not like it was any less new to me than it was to you. You got over 400 battles solo in it, if your gameplay solo had increased dramatically, you'd not barely win more often than you lose in the ship. What skyrockets and where you seem to play this ship almost exclusively is in divisions. Which distorts the image, because divisions often have better results just because of the effects coordination has, as well as synergy between ship types. But I mean, just because a CV + Gneisenau division is strong does not make it op. That's like saying Atlanta and Flint are OP, just because theoretically you could div them up and have two spam boats in smoke with radar, best in 3-man div with Saipan just to make enemy CVs cry (or Kaga, allowing the two cruisers to act as support if you run into a Saipan, makes likely most others cry at the strike potential the Kaga brings and can now more comfortably apply). Disregarding that each of these ships by itself is very much balanced around certain features and only people who have no clue how much it takes to make Atlanta/Flint work can really call those ships OP. And it is one thing to average 60% winrate playing the ship for itself and averaging 60% winrate with half the games being in divisions with carriers that can carry the game. And it is hard to think you are not implying I cannot play, when yesterday you tried to tell me to stop sniping (ironically, I got a better main battery hit ratio...) and today you tell me that the way I play this ship is somehow suboptimal, because I don't div up with a CV, yet average the same winrate making the ship work by itself. That not even with a 14 pt commander. And just on the note about how the secondaries are seemingly not worth focusing on over AA, unless you can guarantee a CV via division play, you basically are going for situational builds with both. The most consistent build likely lies in a tanking-focused build, but Gneisenau is thankfully flexible enough to make AA and secondaries a valid alternative without giving up too much and still being decent. Gneisenau's AA is among the best in its tier, but so are the secondaries, which tier for tier are among the best in the game, lacking only range. But with all the rapid firing 128 mm guns and 8 km range max, if you get close and personal (and it is a Gneisenau, so you likely want to do that anyway), they really shred ships, even harder than a Bismarck would be able to, given the Bismarck has a large part of its secondaries as 105 mm guns that cannot even hurt DDs seriously, while Gneisenau's 128 mm guns can penetrate all the plating below 32 mm on enemy ships (that is all DDs, all the parts of cruisers that are not main belt and for some turret armour, all the extremities of same tier BBs and even upper belt and such of lower tier BBs, like Warspite). With IFHE on 18 points, just for memes, you actually can punch through the weak parts of T8+ BBs. If you look at the armour layout of the Nelson, the RN and the French BB lines, then you can see why that seriously is no joke. At that point, a Lyon out of position is basically just a wet dream for any secondary Gneisenau.