HaachamaShipping

It is possible for the game engine, it is just, according to WG, too complicated for the average player to understand. Also, as for limits, you can introduce all kinds of stuff. You could even give ships some kind of teleport consumable that moves them from one cap to the other, making it more suited to capping D on North and then immediately being useful again. Call it the Philadelphia field or whatever. The options are limitless. Just, at some point you have to ask yourself, how far are people going to suspend their disbelief just because it is an arcade game and at what point it just becomes utterly ridiculous. Honestly, it is pretty obvious you wrote this for fun, because helf the stuff couldn't have been written for serious debate.

And 2x4 Type 93 torps. Also, unlike Kronshtadt it should have decent AA, given it was designed with 8x2 Type 98 10 cm guns, which with defAA give an ok long-range aura (and can shred DDs with recent buff).

Honestly, while the lack of torps is annoying, the only thing I truely hate about this ship is other people's reactions to it. I can top the scoreboard with this ship, yet during battle people will spam the chat about how useless Indy is fighting in the back and not up front. Best one was people complaining about the Indianapolis "camping behind an island" after I got reduced to 4k hp and the only remaining enemy ships were a Bismarck, Tirpitz and Massachusetts and was spamming AP at their broadsides. Just because it has radar does not mean it is not just a thin-skinned heavy cruiser.

Apart from regular cruisers being more accurate.

Ichiban finally matches up to her sisters (though I still like Murasame most of the class). Yuugumo seems also ok. Tenryuu... I guess her AA stat is great.

Guns are inconsistent at range. Up close, they are great. Armour is only weak to BB AP and any HE. cruiser AP, the Graf Spee tanks pretty well (and you can tank BB AP that hits the belt). And unlike the Kronshtadt or Stalingrad or alaska, the Spee has a set of pretty good torps for her tier. Yes, the Spee is not appealing to everyone, but just today I pretty much wrecked a bow-on Myoko with it, because it could only fire two guns and couldn't get anwhere with AP, while it didn't dar show broadside due to gun threat and torp threat. I couldn't overmatch the bow, but shots in superstructure did ok. It fired AP at me for a grand total of 4k damage before the two T7 BBs put an end to me, but Myoko had lost most of its hp, as did the KGV that ate three torps (and had a whole salvo bounce off my belt). It has its flaws, but it's by no means bad and in cruiser vs cruiser action, it can do nasty things. And practically, that's what I expect of large cruisers. Tier for tier, they hold up about as well against BBs (slightly better in case of 27 mm plating that can at least bounce 38 cm. But people cry about the anti-cruiser capabilities and not anti-BB), but against cruisers, it's a similar story to the Spee. Neither side can overmatch bows, both sides can try citadel the crap out of each other broadside. Many cruisers will have torps that can be viewed as a great equaliser. In that sense, looking forward to the IJN B-65 design. When the ship will not get radar, but 10 km Type 93 torps instead, IJN fire chance, IJN cruiser concealment and Kii-grade AA.I wonder what debates will be like then.

Graf Spee's armour is weak in two regards: It gets penned by HE. It gets overpenned by BBs practically everywhere except at the belt. Guess who else has the exact same weaknesses 3 tiers higher, having 25 mm deck and upper belt and extremities plating? Kronshtadt. And I have yet to see an American cruiser that doesn't have plating that can be HE penned anywhere except belt (and maybe turret faces). Kronshtadt actually even has weaker citadel protection for its tier, as while both ships have submerged citadels, Graf Spee from the front is very hard to impossible to citadel, due to 70 mm citadel deck plating and 125 mm turret barbette, blocking the way to the narrow citadel behind it. Kronshtadt has 15 mm citadel deck and 30 mm barbette, which gets overmatched by BBs without any issue (except 38 cm armed ones). Graf Spee has almost 40k hp when every other cruiser has at most around 32k and it has a heal. Kronshtadt has 70k over the next best Roon at almost 50k (and Alaska will have 60k). And at that tier, everyone has a heal. Tier for tier, the Graf Spee is a very durable cruiser. As for few guns... Leander at T6 has 8 guns, Fiji a tier higher has 12. Kronshtadt and Alaska having 50% more derp three tiers higher is not exactly unusual and in a way, just like the Graf spee is not the only T6 with 6 guns (Aoba and Huanghe have same number but smaller), Kronshtadt and Stalingrad are at the lower ends of their tiers in number of guns.

It's kinda okish. Nothing exciting. Torps are sorely missed, but I find for the most part, it's not that terrible. Vs Atlanta, Atlanta has the torp option and a playstyle making the radar more useful, but Indianapolis is a more casual option, requiring far less captain skills to be good and hanging back, it also is somewhat easier to play decently well. Range is pretty ok too.

Could you please stop ignoring it then, as if it didn't even matter? Because it bloody does that a Graf Spee for example can citadel a Nürnberg from any angle, while an Alaska will only be able to do the same to a Neptune at its tier. And at T9 and 10 these large cruisers will not face any DDs. The Graf Spee has much more of a durability and firepower per salvo advantage than any of the large cruisers for its tier. It has derpy dispersion, but well, this is the dispersion WG advertises for the new ships. Yet, on Graf Spee it is a balancing factor. On the new ships not. It has 6 guns only, but frankly, what do you expect going from T6 to T9? For T6, 6 guns is enough to cripple the same tier and even higher tier cruisers, all of which (apart from very few exceptions) don't have a repair party, btw. And just to add to it, 1v1, T6 cruisers against Graf Spee have one single winning strategy, which is HE spam from distance. If you try to rush it, you might win, but you might as well eat citadels through the bow or get a faceful torps, eather way, be crippled for the rest of the game if you survive. IF. Meanwhile, these new cruisers could actually be torp rushed by any same tier cruiser except the USN ones and the sole enemy they can pen through the bow is the RN cruisers. A Roon, Saint Louis or Zao basically has to give 0 [edited] about a Kronshtadt, Stalingrad or Alaska 1v1 while going for a torp rush. It just doesn't have to expose side.

Graf Spee can overmatch same tier cruisers bows. Heck, it can overmatch some T7 cruiser bows. And noone calls the Graf Spee OP. Or cries about how the Graf Spee creates more issues for cruisers at T6.

Asashio is stronger than any other DD in the hands of idiots against idiots. It is absolute crap against good players. The guns don't "really hurt other DDs". Not any more than any other T8 DD, except C hull Harekaze. But as said, against idiots they work. I guess you could try kite a moron Benson to death. Good luck against a halfway decent player though. You are practically a roadkill. And don't get me started on cruisers... Is the DD "balanced"? Depends on definition. In the way that it is not OP or UP, sure. But it still is utterly devastating in randoms, when anyone who is not an utter idiot plays it against the average enemy team. But well, quite often, the player in Asashio is your average 45% WR window licker who avoids caps like they were minefields, because "Can only torp BBs, cannot cap" or even better, they go there and try torp cruisers or DDs, because they couldn't figure out how torps work. and then this ship is an endless source of frustration for their team. Thanks WG for selling this piece of crap yet again. Thanks for developing it in the first place. Thanks for giving giving us this utter meme DD that is everything wrong with terrible IJN DD play exemplified. Thank you for giving us a DD that caters to the imbeciles that make 20 km Shima so popular WG thinks it doesn't have to fix that. Thanks for giving us a retarded T8 IJN DD, because I guess we IJN players with a brain don't deserve to get a T8 premium DD that is actually good and rewarding with high skill floor and which has actually existed. We deserve to get this... Ah screw it, I think it's clear what I think about this ship and if it isn't, you can search my post history on Asashio. It was a mistake, but sadly not in the Belfast kind of way, so it keeps getting sold.

In terms of penetration vs broadside against cruisers, it's more a case of angling though, than target armour with these guns. The Stalingrad doesn't magically hit more citadels where the Moskva struggled. Maybe against BBs, but frankly, are we complaining about a cruiser that can punish BBs more easily? As for Alaska, it is yet to be seen. But it is worth noting, it has slightly higher sigma than the Iowa, but while its dispersion on paper is better, lack of Artillery Plotting Room 2 makes it actually slightly worse.

Still more history than any other T10 BB has and likely will ever have. Yamato is very likely to always be the one T10 BB that actually existed and while its few missions didn't result in much, Bismarck managed to sank Hood due to sheer luck and that makes her historically more appealing why? Historically speaking, the Yamato does have the distinction of being the largest battleship to ever have been built and to be the pride of the IJN. Ingame, yeah, mostly the guns.It's still a very decent T10 BB.

SE or AR + PT is likely a better investment than SI.

If you sit in back, you actually don't need camo, because you aren't likely to be seen anyway without firing. If you are up front, the concealment benefit is just nice for potentially getting out faster. Even if you think slow QE (almost 24 knots though), the RN BBs following it are faster. One of the main strengths of Conqueror is the insane concealment. And with t10 repair costs, the price of camo is a joke in comparison. Chances are higher that the enemy had a good shot and will miss than that they were off and still hit. And when they would hit, but instead miss or bounce, it's more damage avoided than you'd eat when they hit instead of missing, usually. Just go and play something like the nerfed Orion or Myogi with AP and tell me how your inaccuracy made you hit stuff instead of just making you miss. One of the advantages of a fast ship, yes. But also means slower ships have to be more careful. It's true for any tier, especially with mirror matchmaking. Assuming you take a T6 cruiser and play a 100 matches in it, an average player should get 50% winrate. Yes, they may play vs T8 all the time and they might have little influence and all the other folks might be terrible and throw all the time, but the thing is, you are just as likely to get morons on your team as you are to get them on the enemy team and if you in your T6 cruiser manage to have greater impact than the T6 cruiser on the enemy team, over a large enough amount of battles, you get WR above 50%. Obviously, at tiers where you are top tier, you get greater influence, but even as low tier, it matters. Heck, you can see that for some of the more powerful ships, like the Leander, which gets uptiered often, yet as one of the most powerful tech tree T6 cruisers gets a better average WR, because it typically is worth more than, say, a La Galissoniere. And similarly, a good player in a T6 would have a better winrate than a bad player in a T6. I run Leander with a 22k camo, premium damage control, premium smoke, premium repair party, repair signal, consumable signal. Not sure if I use Juliet Charlie. Could use premium hydro and tempted to. (also using secondary signal now, but that's really not necessary and more for the absurdity). But apart from secondary flag, this is kind of the minimum I'd use for taking a Leander into battle and I typically get the value out of them. Pretty much every ship has a consumable it should run as premium, because of drastic performance increase.

Moskva can hit things at long range with AP and is more accurate. It cannot overmatch, but neither can Stalingrad or Alaska.

Arguably, the Chapayev, like most of the line, is newer, but not more modern. The only thing modern about the ships was their electronics (which was why they got radar ingame originally), but apart from that, they are just examples of how terrible Soviet naval architects were. But calling these ships modern is like calling today's Russian or PLAAF aircraft modern, despite being 20 years behind what the US military-industrial complex developed.

Frankly, sounds a bit like overcommittment. BBs shouldn't camp the back, but dying this fast is kind of too fast. If you don't eat citadels too much and don't need a fifth heal, it'd be best to use the BoS skill and fire reduction signal to avoid getting burned down fast. And to think about how to tank vs manageable amounts of enemies. Slow BBs have to watch out to get into action, but they also have to watch out to not get stuck in way over what they can manage. Over time, it depends on the player. Being useful and having signals, premium consumables and a camo is not mutually exclusive. And it sure helps allow your ship at the front make up for the potatoes in the back. The issue is, camo, signals and premium consumables are some of the easiest things to get, so, typically, there is no reason to not get them. Pretty much most players who know what they are doing use them to a degree (often not that much point for example in getting premium catapult plane or premium speed boost).

Only Akatsuki and Hatsuharu have them below the Kagero in the IJN tree, Shiratsuyu and Fubuki don't. And it is mostly related to IJN developments IRL. Early Fubukis got only low-angle guns (Mod A), until the IJN wanted high-angle guns (Mod B) that theoretically could shoot at planes. These got put on the Ayanami batch, the Akatsuki-class and Hatsuharu-class. Then they realised the guns were just not good for AA and that all the necessary equipment for AA use had weight (when they wanted to save weight to cram in as much other stuff as possible), so the Mod C returned to low-angle surface-only use and was put on the latter Hatsuharus, Shiratsuyu-class, Asashio-class and Kagero-class. Only late-war on the Yuugumo and Shimakaze, the dual purpose concept returned as Mod D, which still wasn't great at AA, but by that point, it was clear that the ships needed any and all AA they could get (and the Type 95 25 mm guns were pretty garbage as well). In that sense, WG kind of reflected this reality in a good few DDs not having DP main battery, but even those that have got pretty poor values. Most IJN DDs have to count on the 25 mm guns for AA (though it often is utterly insufficient at the job) and only the Type 98 10 cm guns are really any decent at AA. And with decent, I mean, they can kill spotter planes and with some investment save your ship from T6 CVs (most aircraft shot down in a single game with my BFT Harekaze - 7). Honestly, the difference between having the DP 127 mm or not is whether you need to turn off AA or not (as the 25 mm alone just fire as far as your aerial detection, so it's not like they give your position away, unless you are dumb enough to invest into AA range).

British CLs are likely the cruisers best suited for SE, because low hp pool + repair party + no need to spec DE or IFHE, opening up captain points. They are more valuable on BBs. First off, BBs tend to eat less heavy damage and more light damage (fires). While cruiser repair party isn't as gimped by citadel hits, the BB still is far more likely to recover most of its hp. While Leander secondaries aren't worthless, BB secondaries typically outperform them hard. Especially German ones. Also, fire reduction on a cruiser is far less valuable, when fires last only for 30 seconds and damage control has shorter cooldown. Typically, by the point you really have fire issues, the HE damage alone has killed you. What Leander gets more use out of is November Foxtrott (-5% recharge time for consumables), given it has 4 consumables and each one of these is extremely useful most of the time. On a BB, most often you have 2-3 consumables and spotter plane is situational. It's not wrong to use November Foxtrott on BB, but typically I save the flags for cruisers (though it's now the signal I got most of). It is also worth noting that apart from Juliet Charlie, most of the most important signals help you get the achievements that give you these signals in the first place. When you have 5 repairs and use India Delta, you in theorie got a 6th repair party in value out of it (practically, you likely eat too much irrecoverable damage to really get that much by the end of it, but it still makes the first few repair parties much more potent), which helps a lot to get Dreadnought. I'll be honest, most signals I do not know the names of by heart. I just had the client open. Usually, I just call them repair signal, secondary signal, fire reduction signal and similar stuff, also because it helps others to recognise what the heck I mean. Aragathor already explained the BB value (though for grinds you still slap some funky special camo on that WG hands out for free and gives detection reduction anyway), but for a DD, 3% can be important. Especially at higher tiers. Even for the stealthiest high tier DDs (Kagero, Asashio, Harekaze), 3% from camo works out to over 100 metres (5.37 km instead of 5.54 km), which may sound like little, but is quite valuable. For all other DDs with higher concealment it is even more valuable. If you for example take the Benson vs (current unnerfed) Akizuki, Benson with all concealment advantages is 5.78 km, Akizuki is 5.93 km. Without camo, Akizuki is 6.12 km. Camo makes the difference between Benson comfortably outspotting Akizuki with a 300 m window or having to deal with just over 100 m that in many cases means being in real trouble.

GC is kind of OP, while NY is likely the worst T5 BB there is (though Bretagne is competing hard for that title). Still, I stand by the point, if GC can just cripple you in one salvo, you did something wrong.

Well, it does have USN CA shell velocity, so that has to be kept in mind too. And it does have BB-grade concealment. 60k hp also is way less meaty than the 70k of Kronshtadt, "only" 10k higher than the Roon. Frankly, it looks quite nice.

Honestly, I like to think any halfway decent player that uses camos regularly at least once had a special camo run out and entered battle without when pressing "Battle on". In which case it is annoying, but not world ending.

Nürnberg is the worst in all of these categories too. Does the Nürnberg need a buff? Maybe lower reload to 5 seconds, because it clearly is underperforming. Or increase HE damage? Just because Yorck isn't the best HE spammer at range doesn't mean that it now is crap. The one issue there is is the AP rounds that have terrible air drag. Which means, at range, the Yorck will have to load HE. But if you do play it closer, it can actually fare decently well, when the AP comes into play. Because while AP has terrible drag, the AP does have enormous damage, way higher than any other T7 cruiser. I have had pretty decent success playing it safe at range, until I saw a change to get a bit closer and use the AP. Or get closer and use the german hydro on DDs. And I find it a pretty good preperation for Hipper on the next tier. Algerie has 9 km range, but with 3 torps per side, you cannot even hope to execute a remotely healthy BB up close. If you don't hit all three, you can't even kill a healthy cruiser. 9 km range and 3 torps make it a bit of an annoyance you can throw out every now and then, but not much more. Myoko has better torps (though worse angles) indeed. Survivability expert is a 3 pt skill that slaps maybe 2-3k health on ships at upper tiers. Only decent for DDs and light cruisers. Any other class has better pics for 3 points. Camo reduces detection range by 3 % and increases enemy dispersion by 4%. Costs 22k credits. India Delta increases hp regained by 20%. You get 10 for free every day by getting Dreadnought achievement. Way more hp gained for anyone with repair party than through survivability expert. India Yankee reduces fire duration by 20%. Extremely potent. You get 10 per day for getting a Fireproof achievement. Mike yankee Soxisix is almost a must have on any decent secondary spec BB (actually, why don't I have that on my Leander?). you get 10 per day from a Close Quarters Expert. etc. Most important signal though: Juliet Charlie prevents any and all detonations on your ship. You get 10 for detonating. No, signals are way better than the 3 point skill, especially given you don't have to give up any other skill.

Even with AR, you are at 24+ seconds and only reach 24 seconds when dead. And in that sense, Atlanta also satisfies part of it. It doesn't have big shells, but it does have a lot of them. Don't let their caliber fool you, you can devstrike cruisers with them.