HaachamaShipping

Met @Exohoritis yesterday in Ranked. They helped a great deal in getting one of my few Ranked wins yesterday. I was that yamato that died at C in Tears of the Desert, after Shima suicided, Gearing was useless and I tried delay the enemy Yamato, Moskva and Harugumo (and some Hindenburg). I wish I could have been more useful, but well. Thanks for your contribution.

My Ýamato gives no f***s about AP bombs, that Des Moines next to it though... Also, what about my German BB hydro? And can you tell those cruisers that they are supposed to counter my DD? They seem to not have gotten the message. Just today again an Ibuki somehow melted before my Harekaze. Also, my Atago must be defective, it doesn't shoot down planes.

"Damage received"

WG don't do mixed caliber main armament and the last thing you want to end up with is a DD with one twin 12.7 cm Kagero turret and two twin 10 cm secondary turrets.

As said, Yukikaze never featured the actual Harekaze configuration, especially not while serving as Yukikaze. I'd guess any premium Yukikaze would feature normal Kagero turrets.

Harekaze as in the game is not historical at all, the closest people will point you at is Kagero-class Yukikaze, which was handed to China post-war. Wikipedia is vague on the fate, but seemingly it carried a 10 cm gun at some point, and very late in her career got refitted with USN armament. These were however open mounts of the normal USN DD guns, not Midway secondaries like Harekaze has and it lost the torps in the refit. Whether the entire armament was exchanged for 10 cm guns or only partially, after entering service as Tan Yang, I don't know. I found one reddit post stating it had 10 cm on X and Y and 12.7 cm on A, which would be weird af to implement. Yukikaze does have the history though to warrant a premium, as it is the lucky DD that saw action in many of the larger battles (including the last operation Ten-Go) and survived them all.

So, is a T10 DD killing a T8 BB fundamentally wrong? Am I to make a thread if I get deleted by a wall of Shima torps or burned to the ground by a Khaba? Or is it fundamentally wrong that a T10 overall can kill a T8, in which case any T10 Bb can kill a cruiser with one salvo, if RNG is favourable. Much faster than the slow rain of HE. Or what about Worcester that can do the same from behind an island with higher dpm? Or is it an issue that OP got destroyed by a ship fast? That's basically the reason why BBs don't have accessible citadels anymore, unless they are IJN. If you misposition, expect to die a gruesome death. Learn how to position yourself and what you can and cannot tank. Frankly, I don't disagree that the quarter pen on 10 cm HE is a bit much (though it is needed to make Harugumo a decent ship that can hold its own). But not because it can kill BBs fast. To kill an Amagi from say 50k hp (it's a bit damaged already), you need to be able to farm it for almost 50 seconds with a single Harugumo, every shell hitting and penning, no saturation, no hitting turrets that shatter HE, modules that soak up the damage etc. Fires might shorten it, repair counteracts that. In that time, an Amagi can move quite a bit and likely survives at a sliver of hp. a Bismarck would likely survive longer, given 50 mm deck plating. An Izumo just laughs at this, because the Harugumo basically has to hit the upper belt (but not the deck) or the extremities, with no real superstructure to farm and 57 mm centre deck. At any long range, good luck with that. Now, enter the cruiser. Any T10 cruiser not part of the Russian Bias has 30 mm armour or less, except on the belt. All have less hp than a BB and less repair potential. Then this happens: https://clips.twitch.tv/SplendidBombasticShrewBudBlast So, no, IJN gunboats don't counter BBs anywhere near as much as they counter careless cruisers. Same with Worcester. For all its dpm, I had games where I had the almost undivided attention of an enemy Worcester as a Yamato, spamming me every so often, ducking behind cover when he got spotted and aimed at. I survived, got fireproof, 50k damage from Worcester HE, 59k damage from fires. Didn't even get dreadnought, because too few others shot me (though I wasn't camping, instead locking down the entire middle of Sleeping Giant from North of the Inner entrance towards A, with effective shots at B and C. Main reason why I think Worcester tried so hard to kill me, but I preferred taking the Worcester fire before it goes and shoots at ships not blessed with insane deck armour). Try that in a T10 cruiser not named Moskva or Stalingrad. A Harugumo would be a joke compared to that. There's nothing wrong with dedicated BB counters, DDs are often seen as the BB-counter in the rock-paper-scissors. BBs is the main source of damage of IJN main line DDs. But by having the dpm to gun down BBs, obviously they have the dpm to gun down cruisers faster.

Broadside, what T8 cruiser doesn't get citadelled to death? CM and Hipper are kinda ok, but all of them die fast when you don't agle. Thing is, Atago has a mid deck that bounces BB shells, most cruisers don't have that (not even Hipper and Prinz Eugen). Also, a repair party. Yes, it has 12 km torps, good concealment, long reload to balance it out compared to Des Moines with short reload, no torps, or Hindenburg with shorter reload but shorter ranged torps. There is no need to tweak them, they are fine.

Because it's easy for the slowest class in the game to catch up to a BB 26 km away, sink it, then get into a new position that matters.

Hindenburg doesn't need better AP pen. It's ammunition is fine as is. Atago is not a dpm cruiser. Reload is long, but for being essentially a Mogami that is not squishy and has proper torpedo angles, that's fine. And 203 mm Mogami is just straight up worse, as 1 second reload doesn't justify lack of heal and being overmatchable everywhere.

Why is it though? Believe it or not, getting gunned down in a BB by a T10 DD is not the shortest way to die at the hands of a T10 ship. Far from it.

Steel Ocean is not WoWS.

Uhm, what? These ships are pretty balanced. No need to mess around with them.

Or you get a lot of negative karma, because you couldn't protect against subs, even if the BB steamed somewhere where you can't perform aSW duty, because you'd meanwhile get shot up. Then they [edited] about it, just like when they complain about no fighter support when pushing into AA bubbles. And then they claim they are doing their job of pushing, DDs aren't doing theirs, so they camp.

I'm not too convinced really, especially when I see things like this: https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/18/why-wargaming-is-disrupting-world-of-warships-with-submarines-and-revamped-aircraft-carriers/ That Teamwork I sorely miss every time again I hit the battle button? The teamwork that would maybe allow survive against CVs too and would render Asashio straight up garbage instead of having insane server averages? Bogue is 16.5 knots, Langley is goddamn 18 knots. Houshou 25 knots. All other CVs are faster than that. And as a bonus: Sorry, but I don't see a single Italian tech tree line. Without trying to disparage the individual courage of the Soviet sailor, I think we can mostly agree that the Italian Navy saw vastly more action than the Soviet floating artillery batteries and would count as a major navy of the era.

Not shoot, move away, move left and right to not get hit as often, pop a repair, get where they cannot shoot you.

Yeah, but as said, Daring gets the improved ricochet angles. Thus, I'd consider the better option to just move away again from a Daring that opens up. But Daring will likely just smoke if it needs to get away.

He shouldn't shoot, but get away as fast as possible to get undetected. FP and BoS are nice, but Amagi is 32 mm all over. Harugumo won't murder you with fires. Fires are just the nice visuals, but not the main reasons these DDs murder ships like Amagi (and pretty much all cruisers), if they are left to shoot them unmolested.

That's the normal progression of things. But that's to be expected, given that's two tiers difference. you cannot expect the exact characteristics of a T8 at T10. Daring has amazing hp, heal and dpm. It doesn't lose smoke though, so it can just disengage if Khaba tries to spam it down from range. Khaba 50 mm plate is annoying, but frankly, if Khaba goes nose in, it loses half its guns and you can just HE spam the soft parts, as the 50 mm plate is at the sides. If Khaba doesn't go bow-in, you likely can switch to AP.

It's a Harekaze thread, lamenting the loss of Harekaze for new players. I was comparing it to Harekaze, as I wanted to say that Daring is the one DD that comes closest to what Harekaze currently kind of is, though it still is far away. As for T8 vs T10, Shima is pretty much the progression from Kagero. Gearing is a progression from Benson, Yueyang from Hsienyang, Z-52 from Z-23. yes, they are all better, but so is Montana compared to NC, Kurfürst compared to Bismarck, Republique compared to Richelieu, Zao compared to Mogami, Hindenburg compared to Hipper. I think Daring gets dangerous to Khaba if Khaba stays for a close fight. Daring is the slowest T10 (factoring in Harugumo speed boost). Khaba is the fastest T10. If you get ambushed, you might take a lot of damage though and if you didn't have much at to begin with, you'd likely die, I guess.

It is less AP focused than old 10 cm, but more than new 10 cm. Also, the 114 mm guns are more forgiving in not ricochetting off angled ships. With the new 10 cm HE, the main reason to use it is because it burns ships, but more than that, at greater range or on angled surfaces, AP just bounces off or shatters. I think Daring will be better at least in this regard. Its pure HE dpm, when it can be applied is phenomenal though. Higher than Harugumo, afaik. Just the pen isn't there. Also, lower fires per minute compared to the high barrel count 10 cm DDs. Daring has higher fires per minute compared to Harekaze and I think also Akizuki, given the faster reload.

The preferred ammunition of choice against DDs likely is HE, unless they show broadside, I guess. Though it's likely easier to get away with pure HE spam on a DD to just never waste a shot, compared to 10 cm guns which have a pretty large difference in dpm and correct ammunition usage makes a large difference, especially when uptiered or in something like Harekaze that has no hp, so you really rely on killing things fast. The AP is a must for larger ships though, as you cannot just use HE reliably like the 10 cm gun DDs. Would guess after a few salvos to set fires on superstructure, switching to AP for lightly armoured parts might be useful. Though penetration might lack on ships that aren't Republique/Conqueror/cruiser. Typical old 10 cm behaviour, but with higher fire chance and better ricochet angles. Also, RN DDs cannot take propulsion mod at all. They have it inbuild, I think, like RN CLs.

Proud to say, I never specced into Vigilance and still don't care too much about torps. And when it happens, then in ways where I got outplayed so hard, dodging is impossible.

Clearly, there exists a too large skill gap in APM between good and bad Azur Lane players. I'll go back to playing Kancolle, I guess.

I know, but I just wanted to point out, without further clarification, 70% loss of hp is still a terrible trade and just because you don't just outright die, it still is pretty terrible.