HaachamaShipping

Yeah. I was on C cap and farmed a few ships before trading my ship with a Fletcher. There was also a full health Bismarck at A, which however hid behind the island and refused to engage your 200 odd hp Yuugumo. It was there at least for half the time you capped.

The reason it sticks more is because of what damage the two can inflict. Let's assume a target that gets penetrated by both types of ammo, but not citadelled, overpenned or causing shatters/bounces. Penetration damage of any kind is 50% repairable (60% for Brit BB). HE pens just as much as AP pens. AP pens however deal a ton more damage usually (odd cases like Tachibana exist). HE to make up for it has to cause fires, which are 100% repairable.

You expect any less from my Clan tag? Apart from it not being Poi, as it's an Azur Lane mod...

9x7,300/3=21,900 Yes, there usually is no point in loading it as long as there's better ships to wreck, but if you really have to, this has the potential to wipe out most DDs in the game if they are full hp. Asashio anyway. If not, it'll at least rip off their AA (not that Asashio has any meaningful AA), knock out turrets and torp tubes, the engine, rudder and maybe cause a detonation. Also, if you want the potato argument, then Asashio is basically worthless, because they are some of the most misplayed ships there are. Just in cases where they have a good player at the helm, they are far more handicapped than a decently played T8 BB, which is far more versatile. You sure must be bored.

22 km away, HE spammer removed. Extreme case, but should get the point across... hopefully. Try do that with HE. AP is doing fine. Yes, HE is more versatile (except when it cannot pen), but AP still removes ships far faster when applicable. You just need to get into those situations where you can use it.

Sure, let me put 3 captain points into Vigilance instead of SI or BoS and get some 1.6 km or so more surface detection range, both which were builds that paid off every match, just so that in the off chance of seeing an Asashio on the enemy team I can see its torps from 1.2 km away instead of 0.8 km. Because reacting to 67 knot (or 72 knots with TA) torpedoes upon spotting them 1.2 km away from my battleship (or CV) is going to allow me to dodge them... not. You dodge Asashio torps by knowing how torp boats work and where they can torp and where not, how to keep pickets of untorpable ships inbetween you and positions Asashio might torp from and hit the WASD every now and then to make the white line indicator useless. Against good Asashios, this might not work for 20 minutes, but hopefully long enough for allies to shoo it away or kill it, while against bad Asashios... always feels nice to gun them down as a BB.

He's right, El2aZeR. No matter what you say, you cannot penetrate this wall of ignorance. There is no way your time spent responding here will actually pay off.

Mutsu is more fun if top tier, because you are faster and got enough armour to get by. And the overmatch is enough to screw over enemies. But West Virginia is brutal for a T6 BB regardless of what MM it gets. Yes, they overpen more, but they aren't as bad as Dunkek, as the velocity is not as high and inbetween overpens you just rip apart ships with citadels. Against T8, the hull is is not good, but no T6 hull is really "good" in that situation. WV at least allows you to still dish out damage.

Also, not much to talk about on KC inbetween events. Maybe some nice seasonal CG, but that's it.

I'd take it, though I before thought they could go for a seperate IJN premium like Tosa for that, which also got torps. Issue there would be though if Tosa was to be a good brawler, it'd need good secondaries and good close range protection. The best way to give IJN anything close to acceptable secondaries at T8 would be the 10 cm guns Kii already has, which opens the following questions: What would Tosa pay for being a better brawler than Kii while still getting devastating long-range AA? Would it mean nuking all the mid-range AA? Would it get 1.6 sigma? 18 km range? Is that actually playable? Is Kii's mid-range AA even worth that much? What would be the point of Kii? Currently, it would be the AA fortress. CV rework will squash that. I'm frankly a bit miffed that we can trade in premium CVs, yet ships that are balanced around AA cannot be traded in. Despite their main asset being devalued heavily. Is it even sensible to have a ship with that much secondary dpm + citadel protection + 10 main battery guns? People like your esteemed self would complain about another fantasy refit. Maybe Kii would just be that silly glass cannon brawler that has 10 guns, an insane secondary dpm, some torps, but has to avoid giving broadside. In exchange, with IFHE, it basically melts other BBs.

It depends heavily on DD in question and playstyle. Grozovoi for example is one DD that really benefits from SI, SE and BFT, to the point that some run it without CE and LS just to get all three. Meanwhile on most DDs, SI is just another smoke and another speed boost. Something like Chung Mu (and old YY) meanwhile would only get a smoke/radar (while having already plenty smokes) and a speed boost, making BFT much better to boost the already good dpm. There you can take it ontop of SE and either TAE or RPF, whichever fits your playstyle more. On IJN DDs meanwhile, BFT is one of the least taken skills, because you hardly ever want to be in a straight up fair gunfight and RPF helps avoid them, TAE is your main dpm increase and SE is better to survive not just DDs, but also survive other sources of damage. In general, SE often is a better skill, as extra hp are more useful than extra dpm, but I'd think usually you'd want both, not BFT instead of SE. BFT's opportunity cost should be viewed more vs SI, TAE or a second 4 point skill.

Kii suffers hardly more from T10s than Amagi, Richelieu, Monarch, etc.That isn't much of a Kii issue and more of a MM issue. Amagi is already better than Kii in pretty much everything except AA and not having some lulzy torps. It has better accuracy, better citadel protection, better torpedo protection, slightly better speed. I think if Kii needs a buff, then because CV rework will likely whack this ship hard. Currently, I actually like playing Kii, because in the games with CV, Kii is far less likely to get murdered than Amagi and in the games without CV, I just take the slight inconveniences of reduced accuracy. But as the CV rework will just drastically reduce the value of AA on ships, I don't think it is fair to make the Kii balanced around an asset that will just get dodged and have you killed anyway. Secondaries actually were buffed with the 10 cm buffs. In general, I'd not view Kii as a brawling BB though. It can do it if pressed into the role, but it's not great at it. Kii feels a lot like it's somewhat useful in many categories, just not outstanding in anything other than AA. As a fun fact though, if the secondaries had proper range, Kii currently would be one of the most brutal IFHE secondary builds there is, as the ship has more secondary dpm than a Kurfürst. The vast majority sitting on the 10 cm guns that somehow have more HE alpha than the Akizuki guns.

You already get those on the other RN ships.

Worth noting: He says people aren't playing it to its potential. Not that it is actually a good T8 DD. Took you long enough to post it though.

Met @Nautical_Metaphor in their Gallant while playing Hood. Sadly we lost. Didn't make screenshots, because rather unremarkable battle.

I meant, the Hawkins as proposed has a choice of 3x3 and 3x4. Unlike many other module choices at T10, I don't see the reason to go 3x3 if you could go 3x4.

Yeah, Hawkins at T5, York at T6, Counties for T7 and T8 would make most sense. Also, are the guns on Churchill supposed to be a strict upgrade?

@GulvkluderGuld Decided to play some Hipper to try get things done. Found an Alsace to bully... Next game queued up in Cleveland. Was a bit more blessed by MM, but... Felt as if Cleveland wanted to prove something. Though not trying to boast too much with that MM difference. The thing I actually wanted to highlight: AP, effective still 10 km out. Not just suicide ranges. Obviously I won't citpen a Hipper, but I still take the improved damage and against ships like RN CLs, USN CLs, Soviet CLs, Mogami or such you might actually get citpens. Unlike with heavy cruisers, the time to dodge is higher, but if someone insists on steaming broadside, there's no reason not to AP farm them. Also, AP shells have a different muzzle velocity.

Weird, because... As you can see, this is with top hull and Steering Gears Mod 2. For comparison Cleveland... Gets down to 5.8 seconds. Hipper does beat Chapayev though. Well, I might at times try get more out of Hipper, but I'm kinda at wits end and rather play Atago by now, if I want a heavy blapper. I wish they could think of ways to make Hipper more relevant. Alright. Thanks and have a nice day.

Not the T10 ships. Except Bourgogne. At T9 also only Alsace and Jean Bart, but not FdG. Well, how about you take off steering gears mod then? No, the Hipper has no such issues, because it cannot radar at all. A Cleveland can 1v1 a DD in the cap circle through an ambush far easier than a Hipper and if it can't, it can still act as enabler for others. Hipper cannot. And stationary Cleveland is squishy like stationary Hipper. Which is why you don't camp where you can be shot at. Neither is a T10 ship, but Hipper's strengths become mostly pointless at T10, while Cleveland's strengths basically remain, because armour can be overmatched, radar cannot be shut out. Cleveland with guaranteed defAA can defend itself and an area from strikes. The only thing that Hipper doesn't lose vs T10 is its dpm, which is bad and behind Cleveland's. And yes, we can see the difference in potency if we look at WR, where cleveland beats Hipper and the higher up the skill level you go, the more Hipper falls off and the more Cleveland shines. So, sorry, but no. Cleveland is more capable of deciding games than Hipper. Also, if you want to discount the proof that one can use AP frequently and to great effect, feel free to. Doesn't make you right though. If I ask 5 people about their opinion on the European parliament it's as representative of the European citizens as if I were to ask 2 people. Neither is a large enough sample size to make conclusive statements. Similarly, these Hipper games are not 100% vs T10 and we have no means of filtering that. Thus I go by server stats, which is a large sample. And no, which ship is better doesn't depend on the player overall. It only matters to the person of the player, because someone like you seemingly cannot get better results out of Cleveland than Hipper. But that doesn't mean Cleveland is less well-suited and if I have to choose between a top 25% Hipper player or a top 25% Cleveland player, guess which one is more useful to the team. Server stats support your argument how? Last I saw Cleveland leading. It's emotionally charged if you make it emotionally charged. I'm not too emotionally invested in Cleveland over Hipper as a ship. I own both though Hipper is mostly a port queen, as I never feel like playing the ship over any other T8 cruiser I got. Hipper was originally the ship I wanted from the German CA line and only grinded on to Hindenburg because CB. But just because I want to like Hipper doesn't mean I have to praise the ship and make it out to be awesome when it isn't and likely is still among the worst German cruisers tier for tier and frankly worst T8 cruiser in Random battles vs T10 (It does great vs T6 though, where really only two BB can overmatch it and half the folks don't run IFHE). Hipper in my books is currently worse tier for tier even to Yorck, which is sad.

9 guns, 6 forward, 3 if you don't need to angle, 9 angled backwards. At T9 that is actually pretty normal, with only Alsace having more guns, but of smaller caliber. I don't think you would call a normal amount of guns for the tier "few". 1.8 sigma Standard BB sigma. Izumo has some greater vertical dispersion than Iowa and Lion, due to high shell velocity, but the horizontal dispersion is good (IJN pattern) and it's miles more accurate than FdG.

We established that Hipper has more armour that is useless and a larger hp pool. Vs T10, Cleveland is not that much less tanky though, as it eats fewer pens and more overpens. Cleveland has more dpm on paper and effectively, as the server stats show. Only time Hipper outdpms it is against ships with extensive reinforced plating, if Cleveland is unable to hit unsaturated parts. Cleveland has also better concealment and maneuverability, defAA and hydro in seperate slots (whereas Hipper has to pick between German hydro and a life insurence to not be devstruck by any kind of AP bomber or get crosstorped) and in general a better AA. Also "only radar" is a bit silly, given what impact the ability can have. Not only in killing DDs, but also in situational awareness and in killing smoked cruisers. 7.2 seconds base rudder shift/660 m turning circle radius vs 9.2 seconds base rudder shift/790 m turning circle radius That's not negligible. And as a result has little to no influence on the cap fight, which basically means, you are entirely at the mercy of your team to do the job for you. Even trying to shoot the ships in cap you can hope they give broadside, else you do little damage. Question is, what is Hipper designed to do in a T10 match? Brawl? What are you going to brawl? A Montana? Blows you clean out of the water with overmatch. A Kurfürst? Secondaries shred you. A Des Moines? If you don't get the torp drop off, the dpm disparity is insane. A DD? I'd rather be in the radar ship. Cleveland is not designed for brawls, but if it has to, it at least can dish out serious short range dpm that is far harder to dodge than a set of torps, it has two valid types of ammo that both are good dpm and it can switch between them far more easily. If I had to pick, Chapayev, Cleveland, (radar) Edinburgh, Atago, in that order for me. Three of those bring the tools and dpm, the fourth at least is tanky and has a hard hitting and accurate HE salvo that can be used to nuke DDs in support of friendly DDs. Let's be real here. Furutaka is tier for tier in a way better position than Hipper. Furutaka has low dpm, but its guns have way better pen tier for tier against the targets it is likely to face. The HE on it also doesn't suck nearly as hard. Furutaka's armour vs T7 is often meaningless, but there actually are a good few ships still that cannot overmatch the midsection of it, whereas other cruisers at the tier have crap all armour and partly get citadelled by 152 mm IFHE. Furutaka also gets 10 km torps and none of the opposition gets consumables that have insane game impact on par with radar, the best being Emerald with a snoke screen, but in return being terrible in firepower and survivability. And no, Hipper has no real diversity. Not over pretty much any other ship at the tier. Prinz Eugen is a more flexible ship than Hipper. and you got like 40 games in the ship, which frankly is not a huge sample. It's like me taking my small sample of Bretagne games where I seemingly did above average damage and got almost 69% WR and say the ship's actually viable based on that. Despite any cold hard analysis of the ships specifics suggesting otherwise and the server data indicating likewise (Bretagne is down in the dumps for WR on Ranked Sprint Season 2). Maybe you like your Hipper, that's fine. But stop trying to argue that it somehow is a better ship than it actually it is. In 9/10 cases, bringing a Hipper to a T10 match is bringing effective deadweight, as the enemy likely gets a more useful T8 cruiser.

Dunno. Guess I'm just that sneaky. Königsberg/Nürnberg likely are the cruisers that get most out of DE at their tiers, due to combination of best RoF and underwhelming base fire chance.

Also a number of premiums (De Grasse, the Ducas, Belfast, Perth, Atlanta/Flint). As for further silver ships, Henri IV does benefit from it, as it lets it pen 50 mm deck plating. This isn't like with 152/155 mm guns where IFHE is absolutely vital, but more whether you'd want to invest 4 points into that situational ability. Kinda like IFHE secondary builds.

As I established before, in a T10 match, Hippers armour does not matter, as it gets overmatched by nearly every BB there is. So, no, all 27 mm plating does for Hipper is that it arms more shells that would otherwise be overpens. Cleveland also is more maneuverable than Hipper and has better concealment. Next, you don't just park behind some island and wait for idiots. You push up and join in on the fight for cap control. And sure, BBs might not push in there, which is one reason the enemy team loses. And dead ships have no uptime. Hipper does citadels on broadside target, which Cleveland does too, even beyond 6 km. Yes, Hipper can do it at longer range. But Cleveland also can close that range better thanks to superior concealment. And yes, AP does more damage than HE, unless you deal with angled targets (duh, but that's exactly where Hipper becomes utter garbage), but if you get a salvo into a broadside, it hurts. A Cleveland has still 38.4k potential AP damage per salvo (and not even 9k HE potential, given HE only gives pens at most) compared to a Hipper's 47.2k, but in a brawl it reloads faster and the AP dpm exceeds Hipper by far (Helena actually has a higher AP damage per salvo too). Those screenshots weren't just me picking the wrong ammo type, they typically were me switching to AP for burst damage. That Myoko in the last example basically died in two salvos of AP. And lastly, Cleveland is far more efficient at killing DDs. Hipper with its terrible HE is only surpassing Prinz Eugen in instilling fear in DDs. Frankly, the question is, what is the point of playing Hipper? Want a ship that excels at close range cap support? Cleveland or Edinburgh are better. Want a ship that can shoot at range? Chapayev has better dpm, fire chance, speed and a radar, or get Charles Martel, which basically has better damage output AND is better at dodging at range. Want a ship that can recover somewhat? Prinz Eugen gets the heal that allows comfortably torp rushing 38 cm BBs while Atago is just overall a much better ship.