HaachamaShipping

She doesn't just appear lower in the water. She is lower in the water. Main reason why most of her armour is below the waterline.

13.9 s vs 14 s I considered PEF for operations, but frankly, no. Without any CVs anymore, the main strength of PEF is gone. 28 knots sound great, in practice, I find most ops doable even in ships like Warspite or WV and I'm not taking a BB that cannot meaningfully harm a Kaiser from 10 km away over one that just punches all the other BBs with impunity. Especially with ops like Newport, where that Izumo already is a massive pain for better BBs, PEF can just go home. Normandie likely is better across the board, now that AA is meaningless. And yes, PEF has no turtleback. It has a waterline cit, but most of the citbelt is submerged as well. I got citpenned twice today, by a Bayern through the stern and by a Texas through the side from 14 km away (ironically, my shells shattered). Just to highlight that this ship is not immune to citadels, my one BB citadel ribbon I got today... And they say these guns cannot citadel BBs... No, but really. This isn't some T6 Scharnhorst (or even a T6 Gneisenau) that gives speed and flexibility. It's a T6 Prinz Eugen. You hope you can fire AP, sometimes you have to fire HE, your aA is solid, but when you get overmatched or broadside penned, you are in all sorts of hurt. Adrenaline Rush is a must on this ship, just because of how easy it is to lose hp and how much this ship needs added dpm. Like, I sometimes feel hardly bad for losing a good chunk of hp in this ship, because it brings my reload down to more comfortable levels (when you have only 8 guns).

No, Mutsu is not free. But people who want a decent ship for money can buy it over PEF, while if you want to know a good ship for free, Warspite was free during British event and Fuso is free all the time. as is Bayern. PEF is basically something you pick up for the steel or because you just get it for free. Not because the performance is amazing. 332 battles. And new ships performing better on their first day is nothing new. If this says anything at all, then that even the first day lead is actually pretty moderate. wait till people get this ship for free and derp about.

84 points of AA likely means AA range mod, BFT, AFT, Manual AA and AA signal. I have all but Manual AA and am at 82.

Hood is miles better. Only thing where PEF feels way more comfortable is the AA and secondaries, where Hood only has its silly defAA on rockets. Hood guns aren't great in regards of pen, but they still do ok, are short fuze, so when they pen they don't overpen that often, they overmatch and they have improved pen angles. PEF has none of that. PEF has guns that get inconsistent past 10 km and within 10 km, they still cannot deal with angled BBs. Accuracy-wise, I'd also not give PEF any better chances, as Hood has pretty good base accuracy before sigma kicks in, PEF's 2.0 sigma feel more like they are there to avoid getting Bayern's treadful accuracy. In terms of tankiness, Hood is way better when angled and enjoys way better HE resistance, but it is more vulnerable when broadside. PEF should not go broadside, as it lacks the good German citadel defense, but with a submerged citadel, you are still better off than Hood. Where both feel pretty similar is the maneuverability, as both are fast when they get moving, but are slow to accelerate. Hood definitely has a more responsive rudder though and turrets that have an easier time staying on target. PEF's turret traverse is not terrible, but certainly is not helping the ship either. Though I ran a Hipper captain on the ship, so I didn't use EM. For a dedicated captain I sure recommend EM. Obviously, PEF is a T6, Hood is a T7. We have different expectations of the two tiers. But Hood in any matchmaking has a way better time staying relevant than the PEF has and just to add to it, the improved pen angles at least allow you to fire AP where others need to shoot HE. PEF needs to shoot HE that is worse than USN or IJN HE shells of the tier, with a lower barrel count than NM or Fuso. PEF, for free, is a nice thing. Other than that, only get it as an extra to the steel, because the ship is pretty lackluster and if you want something decent for Ranked Sprint, there are better options. I played a good few games in PEF today, but never felt like taking this ship into Ranked, because I know if I meet a Warspite, Mutsu or West Virgia, I'm toast. Fuso and NM would be a pain. Bayern comes down to RNG of shots and you only really shine when CVs are involved. DPS and Sigma matter little when your AP just bounces or shatters. If you just want dps, accuracy and speed, get a Mutsu. The pen there is not as anaemic and you at least overmatch. Also, the HE is much better.

In my case, if I quit after 8.0, not like I had much use for doubloons. It's nice to have something to spend them on.

On a Leander at 5 km, you missed the citadel, because while the pen is not exciting on PEF, it isn't this bad. No pen or reload buff is going to adress this issue.

Me You I'm not going to continue discussing with you, given that you seemingly ran out of arguments, are grasping for the personal stat argument and telling me that I lack enough games to have a clue. I mean, if you had 300 games in Hipper with a really exceptional record, sure, we can maybe consider that, but as it is, your authority in that regard is a joke as you are overall barely better than me considering the number of games. I'm no unicum, you are no unicum, don't waste my time if you cannot make a proper argument. If you don't want to pretend that your stats are special or that mine are underwhelming, then you'd not have drifted off on this track. So, keep the personal stats to yourself. Thanks.

That's a Yorck.

He came bow on, I turned, then gunned him down with HE and secondaries. Sorry, but I see him at way before 6 km and Scharnhorst still does 30 knots, so good luck catching up. And in an HE contest, I win, given I actually have BB-grade hp. The PE cannot punish my turn hard enough, nor can Hipper and I don't need to stay further away than 6 km. I'm perfectly fine keeping the engagement at ranges from 6 to 8 km, where torps are useless but secondaries aren't. No other cruiser even needs to get suicidally close to matter. Period. It's shatter, not bounce. And I already pointed out that it applies to 1 out of 10 ships in Hipper's MM. Against everything else it is worse. Most of the deck on FdG, Yamato and Musashi is 57 mm btw and the part on Yamato and Musashi that is 50 mm is still bow section, so you deplete the same hp that a normal cruiser depletes by firing further forward. Ok, I'm seriously questioning this right now. Like, how often in any friggin cruiser will you see a DD closer than 6 km that isn't yolorushing you? Basically never, because most DDs have like 5.8 km concealment, Kagero has 5.4 km and getting as close as 5.5 km or so is just playing with fire. If I want to torp a cruiser with any appreciable torpedo range, I'd do it from 6-7 km out at the very least, as would any DD that doesn't need to fear getting radared. Try do that to a Chapayev. And the reason it's useful on GK is because it allows dodging torps, not because the DD has to stay away further than they'd stay anyway (just alone because if you are at 6 km and Hipper, Atago or Charles Martel launch a catapult fighter, you are screwed). If you want to hold it, neither can do it. Most BBs will just wreck you, 38 cm or not, if you stay in that position. If however you want to do a timely retreat, 9.1 km concealment beats 10.8 km. If you are an Atago, you even have deck plating to help and 35 knots. Chapayev doesn't need to risk its life trying to damage farm in early game, but is better advised to actually help out the cap fight. Which might not necessarily give big damage numbers, but gives winrate. And no, guns that are better against 10.5% of all ships are not better than guns that are better against the remaining 89.5%. Because Hipper sits at 17 km and is doing the most useless job of the team? Yes, it works, I played enough Atago games to know. Feel free to dismiss it, the reality looks different. Radar lasts 20-30 seconds at T8 and 3 out of 4 cruisers at T8 can radar close or beyond concealment. This translates into, when these ships go into that cap and there is a DD, they radar it and can kill it within radar time, not just chase it out. Similarly, you can do that early game. Next on, for bullying DDs out of the cap, 5 km hydro is just as good as 6 km, because the thing with hydro-bullying is, the extra km doesn't matter unless the DD gets caught in it, as the only other thing you get is torpedo warning. No cruiser is unmaneuverable to need more than 3.5 km early warning. I don't know how you play your Hindenburg, but mine works. I guess I just got exceptionally lucky then, just like I get exceptionally lucky in Gneisenau to be able to tank shells on my mid-section, not that bit of bow armour, because I know how to angle and steer my ship. Except every other cruiser dpms you into the ground, except PE, which outlasts you. Hipper cannot win fair fights against skilled opponents. Kronshtadt 50 mm where? What other ship? And no, the IJN gunboat line can crap on Hipper, because Hipper has the dpm that is worse than a Kagero that is shooting back. Meanwhile something like a Chapayev, Cleveland or Edinburgh will kill you long before you kill them as they have actual dpm. An Atago also has 41 mm deck that says no. I mean, basically, for you, Chapayev needs that range. What I'm getting too though, is that seemingly Hipper needs it too, as it seemingly makes a difference. May I point out that spamming Kagero levels of dpm from 17 km against Bismarcks is not exactly anything effective, when other cruisers meanwhile demolish DDs and cruisers? In every instance other than suicide rush, other torps are better, because they actually have range and you don't need to be within spitting distance of the enemy. Except Chapayev, which gets 4 km. And I don't know, but 10 km torpedoes on 9 km concealment do sound like stealth torping to me. So, feel free to say Edinburgh can't stealth torp, when in fact she can. DM has the choice between defAA and normal hydro. If I had the choice between getting radar and normal hydro or German hydro, I sure as hell know what I'd take. And that is basically the same consideration one has to make against all T8 radar cruisers (except Cleveland, which also gets defAA, which has to be pointed out, because not taking defAA means being easily killed by any CV that knows their stuff and not being a free kill to AP bombers is not minor. 6 inch pen is of no importance outside knife fights, because, guess what, these cruisers don't need AP for serious dpm. When close enough, AP dpm is better though and unless you land those rare cits on BBs, the light cruisers are better though. Those other cruisers don't rely on AP to get dpm and could work on that Izumo without having to try to flank. Flanking is Not always possible, thus unreliable Exposes the ship to CV attacks if present Exposes the ship to other predators that might see it as a free kill (and have better concealment) Is time-consuming in the slowest of T8 cruisers All I get from your post is "Look, this is how you play Hipper". Which is mostly nothing new (and some info like 50 mm Kronshtadt plating or no stealth torp on Edinburgh is outright false). What however is basically absent is how this playstyle is in any way more useful than any other T8 cruiser. Basically, you farm BBs from 17 km, you late game bully DDs, you try get your ship into crossfire positions (hopefully without getting murdered) and then farm some poor sod in a BB with AP. Highlight of the game. And this somehow carries the same weight as ships that can go to a cap, radar it, get DDs killed within the first few minutes of the game, can farm all the soft targets and if late-game they need to bully DDs, they just go and counter-radar them upon detection to get a free kill within a few salvos, without the DD being able to do much. And you might disagree on that matter, but there's pretty much nothing to back up your claims. The playstyle you suggest (and which the values encourage) is not exactly "effective" overall and if we look at the performance of the ship, nothing suggests that it is terribly competitive. And just to humor myself, I actually looked for sections on Kronshtadt where Hipper matters. There are some: You might agree though that with all the rest being 25 mm, these pits and pieces are of no real importance.

Did enough math today. Don't blame me if at 1 am I get stuff wrong, please. I think the point I wanted to make came across. As for RJ, KC RJ isn't exactly minor. And I mean, what exactly was AL RJs personality while still being just a boss? You had some chibi figure, but nothing much else to go with. Though 15 is a bit meager. Then again, Monarch is a playable character out for a bit and is at 18.

I'm actually waiting for that. Not that I necessarily expect or feel entitled to it, but if she does, might buy her. Otherwise, interesting freebie. For T6 BBs, I got better ships for Ranked Sprint meanwhile.

I'm aware, but you are looking at a RJ that is out far longer compared to one that just came into existence really. And unlike Takao, which KC is fine with sweeping under a rag and never will get any art upgrade, AL is heavily promoting their Takao character, so of course as AL picks up in general, so will their Takao, while KC Takao will stay low. For comparison, AL Takao is 3k out of 21k. Every 7th AL entry has AL Takao. KC Takao is 3k out of 298k. Every 100th or so KC entry features KC Takao.

tbf, at T5/6 secondary ranges, the accuracy matters less. Yes, hitting crap is hard, but it's not completely irrelevant.

Unlike GZ, PEF was nerfed months ago, not just shortly prior to release. In fact, since we know it'll be the Christmas ship, the ship has only received a minor buff I think to restore the 2.0 sigma.

Which video?

"azur_lane" has 21k entries on danbooru. "shimakaze_(kantai_collection)" has 12k. What exactly did you expect? Likely the cosest you ever get is Takao, where AL has 1k, KC has 3k. Pitting one of the most promoted characters against one that hasn't ever seen any seasonal or anything.

It sure stopped that Prinz Eugen up in my screenshot. Yes, it means you might force a BB to turn, but if you don't get the BB punished for it, what exactly are you worth? Not a whole lot. If the BB isn't completely taken by surprise around a corner (which actually means you'd throw that range out the window for the approach), they see you coming at a range where turning is hardly the issue. Bismarck and such also survive a turn, because they basically are immune to citadels. Best case, the enemy is dumb and you get a kill. Worst case, you threw your ship away for a heavily damaged BB that has repair party. I love that turtleback argument, because it's about as overhyped as German CA armour. 27 mm plating is irrelevant to half the BBs, while the turtleback is about as unreliable as Dunkerque guns. You can get citadel hits with cruiser guns on these things, as can happen with BB guns at any range. Here, a compilation of citadel shots with Scharnhorst, the lowest caliber BB guns I could bring up. When citadel doesn't get hit, overmatching BB guns obviously take still out up to 20k hp per salvo, which depletes Hipper in three salvos, if you don't continue shooting at the same spot. Other cruisers don't have to yolo rush to get their impact. The issue with any damage vs pen argument is, that Hipper basically becomes a specialist vs Moskva, Khaba and 50 mm plating BBs. The vast majority of ships don't have that kind of armour and every ship tajes fire damage. Hipper is far more a specialist in that regard than any other cruiser. And being able to project a dpm that is put to shame by a Kagero out to 18 km is not exactly "impactful". It's actually sad enough that something like an Akizuki or Haekaze can take a dump on a Hipper and threaten its existence. It prevents them from torping you the same way a 5 km hydro does on a regular CA/CL, because it makes it harder for you to get torped. A DD that can stay outside 5.4/5.5 km range can stay out of 6 km range (given you are spotted far before that) and there's little actual difference otherwise. If I torp you from 6.1 km away, under the assumption you run hydro, Hipper with Hydro will dodge as would a Chapayev with hydro up. With hydro down, you'd eat them all the same though. What 6 km hydro does, is light up ships in smokes. And guess what, if I know you are coming, I can leave and Hipper is too slow to catch up. If I don't know, even 5 km hydro will catch me out of position and will end my ship. Though faster, because every other cruiser has better HE firepower (except Eugen). And some cruisers actually have radar. You know what emasculates a Kagero? Running into a radar Edinburgh that can just lolradar you the moment it gets detected and proceed to delete you. Thus no, 6 km hydro is not special on a cruiser. It's nice on Bismarck though, where no other BB gets it at the tier. Against cruisers, dpm is enough to get you out, against BBs, yes, you cannot hold a position well, but neither can Hipper. I can just flank wide enough to not be in torp range, that Hipper dpm isn't discouraging me and unless I cannot overmatch, it's an easier kill afterwards. Apart from Hipper being far worse at actually camping behind obstacles. As said before, Hipper's armament also is not exactly generalist, it's anti-heavy plating HE. Against most ships, Cleveland works better. Armament-wise, Cleveland might have crap for armour, but unless you actually pen the citadel, you get a whole load of overpens. Far more than on the Hipper. and there is no 16 mm bow. Cleveland isn't Edinburgh. Chapayev isn't an obstacle camper though and basically is what Hipper would be if you exchanged armour with dpm and a consumable that is significant and doesn't make you basically a free kill for CVs. Which basically means, against anything that does overmatch 27 mm (read, half the BBs at your tier and every cruiser firing HE), Chapayev is maybe a bit less maneuverable, but about matches the range and has the dpm to kill the threat sooner rather than later. Which also means, Chapayev will kill cruisers faster. You may note, the only point where Hipper ever shines is against a narrow section of BBs. It isn't going to win a fight vs a smart cruiser and is the least useful DD hunter. It has ok AA, if you don't mind switching out your glorified hydro and that other cruisers get better range. The reason why Atago is in the conversation is because Atago is a T8 cruiser, thus competes with Hipper and frankly does the whole concept better. Atago might not have Hipper's dpm against heavily armoured ships, but it bhas the fire chance to make up for it. Against everything else, Atago leaves a bigger tent than Hipper (and puts it on fire) for surprise shots, Atago is also better. Not being reliant on continuous firing of the main battery for impact also reduces survivability issues when you have 9.1 km concealment and when you need to tank, Atago has the speed and rudder shift to dodge, while also having aforementioned 41 mm deck that bounces shells. Yes, it doesn't cover all the deck, but guess what, when anything with guns larger than 38 cm shoots at Hipper, the entire ship is "juicy" 27 mm. Those 2 mm don't save you and large gun BBs exist now at every tier the Hipper and Atago can face. Add to it that 41 mm shatters all but German HE and you find that Atago is actually more resilient than Hipper in the greater variety of circumstances and more effective outside the narrow scenario of 38 cm gun BBs with 50 mm deck (which applies to a grand total of two ships in the game). Atago also isn't just a pure HE spammer, it can duel other cruisers and win, thanks to concealment and a heavy broadside. There's much value in being able to surprise a cruiser from 10 km away and shoot 10 AP shells at the citadel with DD accuracy while already turning out. And again, fires make up for damage too, because while more easily repairable, the Hipper doesn't have the dpm output to really make its direct damage much more threatening than getting put on fire on multiple places. It's actually not too hard with an Atago to snipe vulnerable bow, vulnerable stern, forward superstructure, back superstructure and get your fires (and all on sections where all BBs are soft, just that they run out of hp at some point) and you did a good few hefty salvos and every full duration fire is at least 10.4% of hp (on a Bismarck about 7k, on a Yamato and Kurfürst it's vastly more) and doesn't need you to continue shooting them. Certainly beats Hipper that in the same 35 seconds of minimum duration gets 3 salvos out with about the same 8k damage inbetween them. I can meanwhile take my Atago and shoot other things where damage sticks. Or throw torps. And that is if you HE farm the BBs or CAs with the biggest hp pools. You know, the ships that give the least f's about your anaemic dpm (while fires would actually scale with hp pools), and where doing damage has the least impact. Hipper basically excels at the most useless task of them all thus. Which is the next part, Atago can actually delay enemies better than a Hipper and fend off. If you want to boil the Atago down to one niche, that's up to you, but unlike Hipper, there's a lot more you can do with insane concealment, heavy broadside, stealth torps, 41 mm deck and a repair party than you can do with a 27 mm plating, 50 mm pen, German hydro and suicide rush torps. Other cruisers can support the cap fight more effectively with firepower and/or radar and get DDs killed within minutes. I call that an earlier impact than shaving off a few k hp off a BB that has no consequence until the BB dies a few minutes down the line. and I'm not convinced that yoloing your cruiser into the still intact enemy team is going to get you your impact. Hipper basically has to wait and thus its actual impact is mid-to-late game, not early on. Also, I reverse your statement: Every other cruiser can fight at more advantageous ranges, only Hipper has to play at ranges where it still gets crapped on to actually show significant advantages over other ships. Hindenburg can tank a Montana, Hipper cannot tank a NC. Hindenburg can win fights against other cruisers, Hipper typically runs into dpm issues. And you can feel free to go on about how dpm doesn't matter, because "ACTUAL, REAL, HE DPM" is only what goes through 50 mm plating. Which in the MM spread affects 12 BBs (Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Roma, NC, FdG, Iowa, Musashi, GK, Yamato, though 3 of these actually only have minor parts covered in 50 mm armour, while the rest is 32 mm or outright beyond 50 mm and thus inpenetrable), 4 CAs (Moskva, Stalingrad, Aoba, Atago) and 1 DD (Khabarovsk). Out of 47 BBs, 58 CAs/CLs and 57 DDs (I did count ships that are yet to be released but finalised without insane plating or very likely to not get insane plating like alaska and Irian. I did not include Azuma, nor did I include clones like B versions, ARP ships, HSF Graf Spee, Alabama ST, etc. as those inflate the count pointlessly). So, against ~1/4 of the BBs, ~1/15 of all CAs/CLs and 1/57 of all DDs, your 50 mm pen actually counts. Against the rest, the dpm of every other ship is just as real as Hipper's. Which is 89.5% of all ships you face. I take my improved dpm on 89.5% and being reduced to fires and superstructures/extremities or straight up shooting AP over having underwhelming firepower against everything. This is what crippling overspecialisation looks like. Situational firepower, as pointed up above. Range also isn't major improvement over Chapayev and on that note, Kutuzov has the longes range actually. Turtleback of broken promises that only works when you are so close that even if you win, you trade most hp for that kill. If you win. Torpedoes that only are good at suicide rushing and cannot be used outside of that, unlike IJN torps or RN torps that can be stealth launched and are decent for harassment. Also reload that is too long to torp the same target again, but after one suicide rush it's a bit hard to do another with the remaining hp (Prinz Eugen's repair party fixes that, which is why I consider it a straight up better Hipper, but still not good). 6 km hydro that is a weak consolation for neither having hydro nor good concealment. Guess it beats Charles Martel at least. PE actually has more hp outright and repair. Atago has more with repair, Edinburgh also has more with superheal, but you need to avoid dying. Helps not against cruisers, because they just dpm you into the ground (Edinburgh meanwhile can avoid getting citadelled and will just repair most damage). Second best AP broadside, on the caveat that it has barely more than a 10 gun IJN broadside, but without the accuracy, it has not the USN/RN improved pen angles and it cannot follow up with a second salvo as fast as a CL to abuse a broadside opportunity before the enemy angles. It also is not as good at surprise salvos. If you find an enemy team that allows you to AP farm them the entire game, cool. Otherwise, having a second ammo type that isn't garbage apart from its pen that is an absolute niche application, is to me the better deal. As someone who owns Hindenburg and has played it in randoms, ranked and CB, I can tell you, Hindenburg is way more competitive at its tier than Hipper is at T8.

From the shop: It's the first thing they point out on key features even.

CVs always were in Ranked. Last Ranked Sprint Bogue was the CV of choice. I'd guess this time it's Ryuujou, given strafing is a thing now. But yeah, dunno why you thought CVs weren't in Ranked before, given AP bomber Midway and GZ deleting ships (especially AA cruisers) in one go was always a thing that people were rather miffed about.

29 lb Akizuki shells pen 24 mm. But yeah, I'm just surprised, as I'd guess that makes rockets more effective against BBs than bombs then. Though I have no idea how the new carpet bombing works. Makes bombs a decent anti-cruiser weapon though. Can't wait for my Varyag or Charleston to run into a Hermes though and get 24 bombs dropped on it. Guess I'll just play more Furutaka with 48 mm deck.

Turn, load HE, obliterate the cruiser. T6s are in a bad spot, but I don't give a damn about some Hipper in a Scharnhorst or Gneisenau, when I can just shred them at 8 km with secondary and main battery fire and if I want to feel cocky, counter-torp. Something like a Fuso, Lyon, KGV have respectable HE dpm and will cost the Hipper most of its hp, even if it manages to get close. The issue with such a bumrush imo is that it's a tactic that has far more drawbacks and counter-play options than most others. Not to mention, a good few on your list you could actually just as well rush in a Charles Martel or even in a goddamn Chapayev, because they cannot overmatch 25 mm. The actual list of ships where Hipper has better chances is Bayern, QE, Warspite, Gneisenau, Hood, Tirpitz, Bismarck, Monarch, Vanguard, Richelieu, Gascogne, Roma, Alsace, Jean Bart and Bourgogne. And if I can instead of bumrushing the BB HE spam it from long range while just outright dodging return fire (Charles Martel), dodge, partially tank, fire farm and stand-off torp (Atago and without partial tanking Mogami) or farm from behind obstacles (Cleveland), that's far less of the valuable hp traded for a kill than having to basically charge in and hope the enemy isn't smart enough to trade the ship or just kill me. You can citpen the Hipper through the bow. Not even hard. So if the BB overmatches, yolorushing is a tactic born from desperation at best. Hipper has pen and range and that's it. Accuracy is normal. The only reason it feels better is because shells travel faster than on USN which cannot fire as far to begin with. The sad thing is though, that the HE ammo at that range is still downright pitiful in damage output and if the target goes down after a while, well, that's nice. But I'm sick of spendng most of my game trying to farm one Alsace with occasional potshots at spotted DDs or cruisers, because it's the best target in range and it dies only after half the match has passed, because that's what Hipper dpm is like. And against DDs, sure, German hydro can be nice, but if you are in a position to just go against a DD, normal hydro combined with actual dpm gets the job done faster. Cleveland doesn't need to trade defAA for it and even has radar with almost stealth radar capability, Edinburgh has radar that matches its concealment, Chapayev has radar exceeding its concealment. If you potato into Hipper hydro and die, you deserve that. Far more than just stumbling upon a Chapayev that can counter-radar and obliterate you with accurate fire at 11 km still. Which also means, you can keep a Hipper permaspotted if you wanted, you run much more risk doing this to half the other cruisers at the tier. It still feels awful. And I'm going to say that for most of the time where it just long-range HE spams, its relevance is limited. It might be annoying, but as a threat, it can be ignored by same tier or higher tier BBs for far longer than any other cruiser, because the dpm and fire chance are a joke. I wouldn't try close in on a Myoko like I did with the Prinz Eugen above, because any smart Myoko would just run off throw 6 to 12 torps my way and set my ship on fire in a good few places. But getting shelled by one is a far greater issue than getting shelled by Hipper or Eugen. And sorry, but what? I mean, I'd know a good few cruisers that can farm BBs, kill DDs and remain decent against cruisers at T8. Cleveland hasn't got the armour, but dpm and unless hit in the rather small citadel eats not too much damage. It's stealthy and you can farm BBs as support ship with some cover just fine. DDs hate you with radar, hydro and a lot of fast firing guns, CVs hate you, because you're the only cruiser with guaranteed defAA, against cruisers, they cannot overmatch you and you can just out-dpm them. Given the only cruisers matching you in concealment are IJN and RN, but none being able to really outspot you effectively, it isn't hard to avoid stupid long-range fights. Chapayev meanwhile is admittedly not as good as Hipper vs BBs, but can perform well against cruisers and DDs at most realistic ranges and against BBs is still reasonably useful. Wouldn't take hydro, because radar. Atago has slightly less hp, but a repair party, has not 27 mm armour everywhere but a 41 mm deck that when it gets hit bounces even yamato shells, has 9.1 km concealment and 10 km torps and a broadside that matches Hipper's in AP destruction and outperforms it in HE. With improved accuracy and fire chance. It also is faster and has better rudder shift. Which means against BBs, you can effectively kite them and set them on fire without much issue and vanish inbetween much easier and this regardless of tier (unlike Hipper, where at T10, against every BB but one, Atago has better armour), against DDs, you may not have the hydro range, but you have better HE dpm and conceakment, which allows for good supporting surprise HE salvos (with pinpoint accuracy) that can take large chunks of DD hp out in one go and even in 1v1, the lesser hydro suffices to bully out DDs of an area if not kill them. Against cruisers, the ability to usually get the first shot off and a reinforced deck to avoid getting easily HE penned is far more valuable than anything Hipper has. Some RN CL basically gets no warning before running into an Atago and you can ambush them pretty effectively with AP salvos that delete their citadel (which Hipper can try, but while Hipper has 200 more AP damage potential on a salvo, it cannot get as close, nor as accurate even at that range). Lastly, if Atago wants to, it can just fall back and play torp boat. So, I don't know how you think that Hipper with its armour that uptiers poorly, with its dpm that is poor or gated behind broadsiding enemies, a concealment that is nothing special, is in any way the "versatile" cruiser. It basically has one situation where it performs better. When farming T7 and T8 German BBs, where the HE pen counts and the armour too. With every other ship in the game it's questionable. Even the French and British BBs with their garbage armour basically amount to Hipper getting survivability at a hefty dpm cost (which leaves them at the mercy of BBs that actually switch to HE). Hood is a special case, because Hood either takes hits in the superstructure, where everyone pens or the 51 mm deck, where even Hipper fails (Yorck gets through though). Hipper is a master of mediocrity, with one rather questionable trick, but otherwise no clear strengths and rather a few drawbacks. Any good T8 cruiser will require that, except maybe Edinburgh. But Edinburgh is neither a ship for the unskilled, nor is it a ship that is weak. The issue though is, that Hipper's impact is basically mid to late game. Other cruisers can get impact from the first engagement. That is if you ever can get the full impact out of your ship. If you get thrown into rounds with only overmatching BBs, what special impact are you going to leave on a Montana or Des Moines that no other T8 could make? Hindenburg has 30 mm midsection and basically has 4 BBs that can overmatch it, of which one (457 Conqueror) is rare to the extreme. Hindenburg gets 12 guns, which for T10 is the upper limit, not 8, which for T8 is the lower limit. Hindenburg actually has ships with worse HE dpm below it that aren't a premium version of itself. Hindenburg is a ship that is actually decent. Hipper is not. Nor would I call Hipper a downscaled Hindenburg. Hipper basically lacks much of the survivability Hindenburg has. In a sense, Cleveland has more on Worcester and Atago on Zao than Hipper has on Hindenburg. Hipper basically is as much Hindenburg as 203 Mogami is Zao (and that ship would suffer if there wasn't 155 Mogami).

Imo, of course he can be angry. Rightfully so, given how much he helped with CVs over the past years just to get dismissed and how he created CV tutorials when WG can't be bothered. But you gotta respect a man who's able to stay this composed just to get his message across. Fara knows, he won't get anything if he just shouts about how WG pisses him off, nor will he get much from any viewer who'll dismiss him as a CV main that lost his toys (not that we don't still have those folks, as evidenced earlier). But Fara stays on message, he tries to be respectful, but points out in pretty clear language why the two main issues are two issues that cannot be overlooked. Also, one more issue he points out: The T4 CV experience can be all kinds of bad, driving away players from the class. How you expect to make CVs more popular this way is beyond me.

So, wait, Hermes cannot even pen BB deck armour with its bombs?

That bug fix is a different matter and pretty inconsequential. It only adjusts HE pen of 15 cm guns by 1 mm to where it should have been all along, but this does not pass any meaningful tresholds with or without IFHE.