HaachamaShipping

A reload of 28 seconds is good when you have 12 guns, not 8. The only other ship like this is Dunkerque, which basically doesn't have the accuracy, but gets the pen. And fire chance. I'd frankly buff reload and the turret traverse. The original values on concealment were crazy. The rest not. Well, AA may have been, but that we got, for whatever reason. Also, the secondaries being strong is a side effect of the AA. And the AA on PEF is basically the one truely outstanding thing on it. It's silly though that a WWI CC is basically defined in its strengths by a feature that it did not have IRL and otherwise is basically comparable to a Kongou with 25 mm ends for T6. Why they could refit it with a modern AA suit but couldn't give it modern shells or even a goddamn floatplane (while the last thing this ship needs is range and air defense, I do notice that I feel blind way too often) is beyond me. Or that WG balance a ship around AA in 2018, while first thing 2019 will give us is a CV rework and AA rework. I don't feel great about a ship that has AA that mostly is of the dodgeable kind.

And he admitted this was in the most favourable MM and not representative of what would happen vs T8. If PEF would only ever see T5s, sure, then noone would really be seeing it as that much of a downside. But it sees T8s and when it sees T8s, then it HE can become a necessity. He clearly states it, just that in a T5 game you won't find that (though he states that New York at 12 km is about as far as he'd go for reliable AP usage, which is also fair and from personal experience, it does become a unreliable even against T5s... sadly). But if you want to just shut out half the points PHJ is trying to make... well, what's the point of talking to you? Have a nice day.

But PEF is not like Mutsu. Mutsu pen is pretty ok for a T6. PEF is not. Mutsu also overmatches targets, PEF does not. So, it's nice that you tell me how you think this is the same issue and then tell me that Monarch has greater pen issues. PEF has way less pen than Mutsu, assuming the ammunition doesn't just autobounce off the ship, because it cannot overmatch armour the same way Mutsu can. Which is one of the many issues with the PEF, but no, I guess people who played the ship and seen the shell performance have no clue compared to you who compares the PEF to a goddamn Mutsu of all things. Given you think I'm not a player good enough to have an opinion worth considering, here have a person with better stats reiterate my claims that, yes, this ship, sadly, at times has to actually use HE.

No, the issue is that you do not understand the point that I'm trying to make. When I talk about the usage of HE within narrow circumstances, especially on a BB that is not blessed with overmatch and outclassed by BBs that do overmatch, all you do is tell me I'm wrong because spamming HE at everything in a totally different BB is a "noob trap". When I say that shooting HE at DDs in Mutsu, where the HE shell has way better damage potential than an AP overpen, is a situationally viable option, then all I get from you is the question as to why you are faring better in Mutsu. And guess what, regardless of whether you or me are better, that difference is down to more than what ammo choice we make in the narrow circumstances of shooting a goddamn DD. So, anything you want to contribute on PEF, or are you just going to continue on about how I shouldn't HE spam in my Mutsu, which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, nor does it even match what I wrote?

Good, thanks for enlightening me to the way of the Mutsu. I guess what holds true for a BB with 41 cm guns holds true for a BB with 35 cm guns. Clearly, I must have played the PEF wrong and only imagined shattering off ships 14 km away or ricochetting off that Cleveland, because it was too angled.

It's #2 or #3. Fuso doesn't pen everything with AP. Angled BB, angled T8 cruiser are just two cases where if you need it dead, you have to rely on HE. Similarly, if you know you are up vs a DD, HE is a better ammunition. Yes, you can pen that DD with AP. But you'll overpen. With HE, you won't. Mutsu mostly uses HE only against DDs and angled T8s. Like, when a Tirpitz is after your bum. And even if you shoot AP, Mutsu and warspite have better dpm than a PEF. 10% of that is still better than 10% of PEF's. First off, there has been a patch that reworked AP pens on DDs. So, once upon a time you could use 100% AP and do just fine. Now it's 95% and you still do ok. The issue is though, when you are in a ship that cannot deal reliable damage with AP and need to load HE and that HE is garbage... Also, at some point you have to fight BBs.

I disagree on the "not weak". Feel free to enlighten me as to why this ship is actually worthwhile to play, apart from bragging rights if you top the scoreboard. It has the most anaemic main battery of any T6 BB. Yes, accurate, but 2.0 sigma basically just counteracts the German dispersion and at range it doesn't pen a lot. The AP shell becomes pretty whimsical in whether it gives you actual damage and the HE shell is as sad as you'd expect from a German BB. The protection scheme's sole redeeming point is that it beats Dunkerque and the citadel doesn't border the main belt while being above the waterline. The speed is decent, but not even first place. The AA is great, but 8.0 is around the corner. High-skilled captains will do ok in the ship, because they will do good in any ship, but as far as T6 BBs goes, this ship is frankly the most terrible T6 BB I ever played (and if my stats don't show it, then because some T6 BBs still were learning experiences). Also, it is hard to gauge the strength of a ship that gets matched against itself most of the time, because it is the fad of the day. In all of these brackets it's about the same picture. In PEF, you fire what you have loaded, because the difference is minimal. In something like a Fuso, Mutsu, QE, the HE vs AP does make an actual difference, because apart from much higher damage potential, it breaks stuff and might light the DD on fire. Also, we should maybe differentiate between what is "effective" and what is "necessary". Every BB should fire at closer cruisers and DDs over far away BBs. For PEF, compared to a good few other ships, the effectiveness against targets varies. And in no positive way. PEF is no more effective against a cruiser or DD than a Warspite is (Warspite is vastly more effective) and not particularly better than Mutsu either. But if these two had to, they could shoot at the BB and deal damage, PEF potentially can be locked out of any meaningful damage.

You can't full pen DDs, so what's the point when you do 10% damage as long as you somehow hit? Aganist DDs, PEF actually is likely the worst BB except maybe Bayern, because the AP dpm is terrible and the HE shell a joke. Yes, you should shoot DDs in PEF too, but there's no special advantages to it. A Warspite, Mutsu or Fuso do that job better (and the anti-cruiser role too).

It was in 1st place yesterday. As predicted, it continues to fall. Prime example of why I rejected yesterday's ranking of the ship as painting a false picture. We'll see where it ends up, but frankly, I'd expect it to not do well at all.

Easiest is to look through the Clan Recruitment section for anything weeb, then looking at their requirements.

Graf Spee is... different. But certainly not bad. Imo, the one thing that makes Graf Spee look bad is T6 MM. In T6 only modes, Graf Spee is a pretty solid option. Look at S3 of Ranked Sprint, it's only outperformed by De Grasse and Leander among cruisers. Despite being the second most popular cruiser. Yes, it has crap dpm, but having 10k more hp, a repair party, guns that overmatch other cruisers and being not entirely made out of citadel certainly has its advantages. And I don't need dpm, if I can just land 8k citadel hits on cruisers 11 km away. Hits even Leander won't repair well.

Be sure, I wondered that too after I realised that I had to deplete a full hp Hindenburg and Henri without citadel hits.

From empirical testing in training room: Minotaur: Can be citpenned at ranges like 4-5 km easily. No surprise there. Moskva: Gets citpenned only below 2.8 km. Before that, belt shatters shells. Like, 2.9 km is all shatters. Note that this is on a strip slightly above the waterline. I ran two tests for this, as I didn't believe that the first test against Moskva was properly conducted, as 155 mm Moskcva shouldn't get vastly different results than 150 mm Des Moines. As is, it's 2.8 km to pen the strip directly behind the 155 mm belt and 1 km to pen the 155 mm belt AND the citadel bulkhead that is when you hit at the waterline. Worcester: Below 4 km. Des Moines: 3 km and below. Zao: Below 3.5 km. Hindenburg and Henri: 404 Citadel not found PA has no T10, but Chengan you basically either citpen or overpen. If you hit the little bugger, which isn't even guaranteed at 4 km. Now others won't need to waste an hour of their lives to find out. You're welcome.

I mean, you could pen 100 mm cit plating with it. Issue is, even then you do 4k damage and you don't want to shoot HE against cruisers in the first place. You are basically investing 4 points into something that is an emergency solution, instead of taking actually useful skills like CE, FP or even stuff to boost your AA, which is the one good thing about the ship (and likely irrelevant post 8.0).

It does exactly nothing, except reduce your terrible fire chance from 27% to 24%. That is basically a Henri with DE. But with a 28 second reload.

For comparison, KGV has 6.1k alpha/41% fire chance on 356 mm HE shells, with 10 barrels and 25 sec reload. PEF has 4k alpha/27% fire chance on 350 mm HE shells, with 8 barrels with 28 second reload. KGV can shoot HE all match long and still not become completely useless. PEF basically does become useless. PEF has to get AP in or you are basically just not getting anything done. KGV uses HE because it is a viable alternative. PEF spamming HE is not because it magically got better HE than your usual German (where pretty much in all four classes HE gets outclassed by AP), but because the AP becomes unviable and HE is the only way to get anything done. And when I say unreliable, I mean results from AP can vary greatly, though I think it mainly is down to target, area hit and angling. From experiences, angled anything with 25 mm or better plating is a waste of time (as would be expected). If it isn't autobounce, you can get good results on cruisers though, but shells lose speed at range (this isn't your WWII German performance of high velocity all the way, though it at least isn't old Yorck), so correct lead is necessary and target needs to not dodge. Against BBs, angled anything can be a pain, even T5s (you basically have to hit overmatch areas to do anything), broadside, you need to hit anything that isn't belt. Here, at T8, "long range" salvos against something like Bismarck 14 km away are likely not going to do much, even broadside on, Massachusetts I managed to get ok salvos of up to 7k from 15-16 km away. Broadside. Citadels beyond 10 km are basically not going to happen. At best 11-12 km against something like a Kongou. I have yet to get into such a duel, but I would think, the worst enemy of the PEF would be a Gneisenau or Tirpitz, which are faster, can straight up overmatch you, have better secondaries that pen your 25 mm plating and which don't give much about your return fire if they chase you. Those two also posess torps, so you can't even try to stay around. Others like Massachusetts will deplete your hp fast if you get into secondary range and their main guns have no issues punching through your armour. Your armour above the waterline is among the worst in T6, with 25 mm extremities that have no meaningful reinforced sections and 270 mm belt. Fuso and Mutsu have 305 mm belt and everyone knows how that works out (though at least PEF doesn't have overmatchable citadel deck). Only T6 BB with worse belt is Dunkerque, with 225 mm. And thankfully the ship sits this deep in the water, because if it wouldn't, yes, it would get 300 mm belt (still worse than a Fuso) and reinforced lower bow and stern plating (also worse than Fuso), but it would get a citadel that is above the waterline. Frankly, the best ships for me for these ops, other than a well-played CV, would be for F2P Fuso and Leander, while for those who have them, whether they bought it or got it for free, (HSF) Graf Spee and Perth are decent too. Perth isn't much better than Leander though, you basically trade the repair's sustain for the ability to move your smoke, which especially in Killer Whale, Aegis and Raptor Rescue is very valuable (you could actually mask the moving Raptor with it). Graf Spee is great in any T6 op, as it is basically a cruiser killer and most enemies are cruisers or low tier BBs. It also is far less dependant on repair zones, which in Raptor Rescue and Newport become noob traps and in Aegis and Killer Whale are nonexistent. Which also why I give Leander such high grades. Obviously the least useful ships in an op are DDs, ranging from Aigle as least bad to torp Monaghan and Hatsuharu for worst.

Do you need the steel? If not, my recommendation is the grind. The ship looks nice, but gameplay-wise is nothing amazing.

Imo, play PEF now, because the queue is filled with PEFs that are no better than you ship-wise. I played mine on my own. I must say, whoever friggin complains about their T8 BB getting thrown into T10 MM hasn't yet experienced what it is like to play PEF against T8 BBs. Good secondaries, they said. Get close, they said. Then came the Bismarck/Tirpitz/Massachusetts with guns that citadel you if you don't watch your angling well and secondaries with ranges that match about where your AP actually starts become reliable. But hey, if you just resign yourself to this, it's a challenge, I guess.

Thanks. Let's just say, T7 CVs aren't the issue of PEF. T7 BBs on the other hand... Hope you have fun in yours.

Triple div and still only 1.7k base exp vs autodropping T5s and T5 CVs? Git gud... (Literally my first game in her, btw...)

Same as most low tier Germans?

Graf Spee is better, because it's frankly one of the more solid cruiser choices. You don't have the dpm, but with some aim can just blow out the citadel of enemy cruisers. And it doesn't just explode when someone looks at it angrily, like Nürnberg.

Cruisers are no issue at pretty much any range, though at T8, even light cruisers can autobounce you (but they can also just autobounce NM and Arizona).

Thanks. For a Monarch, it wasn't that bad. We were losing at one moment, but that Jutland did great work. Sadly, I didn't get to see much of you, as we were on different flanks, but maybe one day we'll meet again. Also, I'm pretty sure the Ranked experience in Arizona is more fun than Prinz Eitel Friedrich. I only played a couple rounds in it. It is a bit of an uphill struggle. Will return to Graf Spee likely.

What do you think nukes a cruiser better? 8 low pen shells or 12 normal pen shells?