HaachamaShipping

Who would've guessed... For one "crap" is not a term that has a clear definition, so trying to correct me on that is pointless. The literal definition obviously doesn't hold up and the figurative one is too vague. Asashio in the end is just not capable of being a good ship due to its limitations that preclude reliable performance. And claiming "you don't need to play this ship aggressively", well, you don't say. Who would've thought that a ship with 20 km torps and great concealment doesn't have to risk much. Issue is, destroyers have jobs beyond killing BBs and "risk-averse play" usually neglects those. Krasny Krim is a solid cruiser compared to this ship, because with a highly enough skilled commander, it actually does its job. Asashio at no point will get over its limitations. Heck, Krasny Krim even has redeeming features, like its citadel plating being good enough to prevent getting citadelled through the bow. As to Friesland, it's in development. We'll see how it turns out.

For T6 standards, having a waterline cit that frontally is covered by your main turret barbette, together with the hp pool and repair party makes it insanely tanky for its tier. It's just that it does not stand up to BBs, but few CBs do that, unless they are either up against ships of lower tiers or people who don't know what they are doing. But even the vaunted Stalingrad can get citpenned through the nose if it is unlucky and its side armour is not going to hold off much. Also, unlike high tiers, Graf Spee at its tier does overmatch cruisers. Yoshino might look like reinforced cardboard, until you get trolled by the layout with its citadel protection and spaced amour. It's certainly prone to eating citadels, but when getting shot in the side, it can hold up better than Stalingrad. Overall, Alaska is likely the tankiest cruiser and has guns big enough with USN bounce angles to make it devastating at mid ranges.

Which kill matters more for winning the game? Killing the capping DD/pushing BBcap-supporting cruiser or killing the BB on the H line? If an enemy is so kind as to just remove themselves from the battle by themselves for the mos part, then, sure, I don't care. Not to mention, hitting one or two torps on a Yamato in the rear is unlikely to kill the ship and is unlikely to produce any immediate results on the flow of the game. One cruiser deleted or even just almost dead has immediate repercussions, as it takes away much if not all their gameplay options and dpm from a position where it matters. That's why I call it crap. It's not just reliant on MM, it is basically specialised to do the least influential damage at the cost of its performance in doing anything that has greater influence but is usually harder to accomplish. It's not strictly "underpowered", it is conceptionally broken, thus apart from being limited in what it can achieve, the basic concept of the ship is imo just wrong (as Asashio basically is the dream boat for anyone too inept to play a proper torpedo DD, given if you'd die with no damage normally, sinking cruisers and DDs wasn't your concern in the first place and killing one BB per battle already is great). I'm not going to call this ship situational. It is crap and personally, I find it disgusting and an insult to proper IJN DD gameplay. Also, you are still debating with me?

I mean, given I won gun duels against Jutlands in Yukikaze, there is certainly a part of the player base unable to deal with IJN DD guns at high tiers. Sadly most cruisers got too much hp to be picked off reliably. Even your own screenshot shows basically the one cruiser damaged is an Atlanta with DD-grade armour. Something like a Chapayev, Cleveland, Mogami or Charles Martel is pretty much off limits. And as stated above, one doesn't need 20 km torps to terrorise BBs and get Kraken games. Nor is Asashio the sole T8 DD with stellar concealment.

We are still recruiting. Just saying. Even if most are in summer holidays.

Why respond then?

Graf Zeppelin, but that I already own. Otherwise, Asashio. Look, if I want to oneshot a BB with torps, I take my Yukikaze out, because contrary to the opinion of the average Asashio potato, you don't need 16 20 km DWT to kill a BB. One spread of F3s at ranges where it doesn't leave ridiculous gaps and you land 3-4 out of 4 is more than enough. And I happily sacrifice the range for the ability to also potentially nuke cruisers and DDs. Now consider that the Yukikaze is not even some OP ship and for many likely not even a good ship. Asashio's claim to fame is that it basically is just there to make the easiest thing a DD can accomplish in the game even easier, while making everything else (like killing a cruiser) hard to nigh-impossible. And I'm not handing WG money for that.

Any chance of Asashio is too much chance of Asashio.

While I had hoped for Vanguard to show up during Summer Sale, I'm not going to gamble on getting two more crappy ships I don't want. Well, maybe another time, they'll give a better offer. Or not.

With that attitude, most names will sound like pizza.

Reason Hipper is crap is not the 4x2. It's a 4x2, combined with bad HE alpha, no consumables with any synergy (give the best hydro to the cruisers worst suited for anti-DD work) nor the teamwork potential of radar cruisers and 27 mm getting overmatched by 406s+ mm guns that can even be found on T6s, are half the T7s and T8s and are normal at T9 and 10. With HE shells that have actual damage, you already get a better basis to work with than Hipper or Eugen. I'm not going to say Zara at T7 is a crime against the Italian nation, but it really isn't like Zara at T8 is in any way more distorted than the current gimmick line we got or utterly unworkable. And provided the line isn't terrible, I'll try get Zara even at T7 and will have no complaints.

It really depends on what you make out of the ships. In the current iteration, lolno, Zara is definitely T7. But for example, suppose the cruisers had followed the Ducas and Zara gets the full Duca degli Abruzzi loadout of consumables, 27 mm plating akin to Baltimore and Hipper and actually decent ammunition types with a 11-12s reload, it wouldn't be a terrible T8. It'd basically be a Prinz Eugen with no torps but better dpm and hydro and defAA in two different slots. If you think it's still UP, slap the unhistorical torp launcher ontop that she now gets anyway. It's really all a matter of perspective and Zara really wasn't predestined to be T7. It's just where she now ends up.

I agree with this. Also, König is faster. But yeah, VU should be T4. It's not like you can't tweak stats like concealment or gun performance, given the number of guns can't be a disqualifying reason when Wyoming and Gangut are allowed to exist at T4. But VU just does not have the means to get by at T5 with its T3-grade hp pool, WWI AA and 20 knots of speed.

It happened. you can find them in the devblog.

Which were WWII destroyer names, so they can't be used. Please mind that some like Andrea Doria, Scipione Africano and Lepanto were in use by the time these ships were designed. It's a bit hard imo to come up with anything that fits the theme, as you run out of large "redeemed" settlements. So, you are best off finding something new to name them after. Alternative to what they did would be ripping names from older Italian ships that went out of commission by WWII, like Pisa and Amalfi or Varese, which were named after the old major sea-faring merchant republics or battles.

I find Yukikaze fun and it kinda is balanced, nanoda!

By that logic, you also need a new T4, because ripping out Kongo and making it a cruiser but leaving Myogi is not very sensible.

Königsberg and Nürnberg are long-ranged dpm machines and short of getting blapped by a BB, they are solid. In contrast to others, you actually get the range though and free IFHE. Also, these ships have 360° rear turrets. They aren't bad cruisers, just the average potato is quick to die rushing in. Yorck is a solid T7. I expected Karlsruhe, Hipper and Roon or something, but to name these three...

All naval AP ingame is capped. Alright, who in naval warfare used solid shot AP in the first half of the 20th century. Then we'll see what was effective and what was not. Normal pens are what then? The whole ship is not a magazine.

Salem gives trouble in other ways than Des Moines. As a DD for example, Salem is less of an issue with its atlanta radar, while for cruisers, it's more of an issue, because radar vs cruisers means far less. Thus, salem doesn't make Des Moines obsolete. And neither does Yoshino ever make Zao obsolete, because it is a different ship. People should not approach yoshino ever with "I like Zao, so yoshino is similar" or "Can this ship fill a Zao spot". It can't. it's like trying to fit a Graf spee into a Nürnberg spot. It just does not work. Now, as to is Yoshino worth the coal? Imo, the ship is decent enough. you aren't buying a turd. is it decent enough for CB? I'd say, it depends on where the meta goes, currently no. it's not absolute deadweight, but there's better ships for the roles it fills. It is definitely a ship playable in randoms though and could hold its own likely in Ranked, especially if you grow tired of backline BBs not pushing up to support. Yoshino brings dpm on par with some cruisers, range of 21 km and 51 mm HE pen, so offensively, it will hardly ever run out of things to shoot at or things it can damage. AP is basically like very heavy cruiser AP in how it works, which is decent enough. It's an okish support ship, main issue is that it has low impact short of lucky first blood on a Mino or Nep. Survivability-wise, having not even 12 km of concealment on a supercruiser is pretty solid. Neither the Henri nor the Zao can match these capabilities to the same degree, the main reason for Yoshino to not be a CB ship is that this combination just is not what people look for in CB. Also, the ship is an IJN supercruiser, so some might just like it for that.

As said already, all ingame AP is APHE by virtue of getting a high explosive bursting charge. And as these ships get AP, they basically get that already. It does not set fires because WG decreed so, but if AP had no bursting charge and was just solid shot, AP would never differentiate between pen, overpen and citadel hit, as all three is just a hole in the ship, not internal explosion damage or not.

That's like arguing whether Italian cruisers should shoot literal spaghetti. It makes no sense. HVAP is a term used for WWII types of armour piercing rounds used against tanks, not in naval warfare and they are of no use whatsoever on the high seas. So it's unhistorical, nonsensical and just out of place. Not worth further discussion. Naval AP shells basically all carry a high explosive filler and aren't just solid shot in the time period of the game. Thus historically, they all are APHE and they typically are capped, like pretty much all shells of the time. as stated before, the lack of a ballistic cap was formerly modelled on the Yorck, which had massive drag values and couldn't use AP effectively beyond 11-12 km. There's no reason to use uncapped ammo, as not just is it not historical here, it's straight up terrible and raises the question, what is it good for except insulting Italians? And yes, AP shells in this game do reflect the explosive filler, which is why they need to arm to detonate. If they arm, they detonate and give normal pen or citadel damage. if they fail to arm, they do only the damage of their kinetic impact, thus overpens. SAPHE and SAPHEI are two different things and the one you linked is way out of the time period. That's like asking why Italian AA guns should fire DART ammo to make up for the AA being otherwise crap. Does it make sense? Absolutely not. Ships need an HE round or at least no more normal ricochet. There can be no way these cruisers can work with two shell types that can be 100% neutered by just slightly angling, even by T6 DDs.

HVAP: That's not naval ammunition APHE: Basically all naval AP is APHE. Taking away a cap just makes it terrible. SAPHE: Basically what this is supposed to be in a way. So, that makes little sense.

Depends on the pen. Like, 27 mm pen on a DD means it's like HE with inbuilt IFHE. If that goes for 203 mm shells, you might end up with 40-50 mm pen, which would not citadel anything except T6 CVs.

I doubt it, though it seems they have a fixed penetration, if things like this is to be believed (note the 27 mm of pen).