HaachamaShipping

I didn't say replace IFHE with CE. I said replace AFT. AFT is a waste of 4 points, because: Whoever runs consistently into flak bursts will lose planes in two bursts at most, AFT or not. Cleveland has defAA that makes flak bursts insta-kill anyway and it cannot even slot out of that, so you will always have defAA anyway. Anyone not flying into flak (aka any CV with an inkling of competence) will not care what damage flak bursts do. Next patch the continuous damage will get nerfed and flak bursts get buffed even further under defAA. so, it's absolutely pointless to beef your flak bursts to do like 5k damage or whatnot, if planes don't even have 2k hp most of the time.

Clan leader told someone to buy a T8 ship... because they claimed to have none in port, but even silver ships would be fine. Frankly, no, T8 is a fine tier in this regard and likely the best tier for premium to silver balance. Yes, there are lots of strong premiums, but, most are proper sidegrades and the sole premium that was considered too strong to the point it had to be pulled is far from overperforming or necessary to do well. Most premiums for the most part are not upgrades, they are sidegrades and they do not allow necessarily better strategies, they allow alternative strategies. Loyang for example, a ship we ran into plenty, a ship we never ran ourselves, a ship that is annoying at times, but not a ship that is necessary to get a winning strategy. Key being, you don't blindly ram your silver ship into the premium, given most premium DDs are anti-DD DDs. Harekaze has great dpm, but low hp pool, if it tries to open gunboat, it's too fragile most of the time. Loyang has its hydro, otherwise is a worse Benson though and if you just keep enough radar support at hand, the hydro quickly is a non-issue. The Kidd is survivable for sure and good anti-DD dpm, but most ships that aren't a DD can consider it a Benson with one less torp launcher and a bit more hp, as it has no burst damage against cruisers and BBs and sustained fire exchanges will not see it survive to the point it can pop more than one heal charge. Kidd thus can return, but it can never be as painful a torp harrasser. And Cossack is the mixture of all that with excelling at nothing either. Yukikaze, Asashio and Le Terrible are hardly worth bringing. People seem to think "Oh god, this strategy with premium works out, so we need that too to stay competitive", instead of considering what else they got on hand and how to center a game-winning strategy around that. For full disclosure, we did run Kidd often, mostly because a. the ship is good, but not central to our approach and replaceable, b. like any ship with repair, it is more comfortable to play than one without. And I don't mind a ship I pay for to be more comfortable and forgiving, but it's not necessarily more powerful. That said, the premium DDs offer a good selection of strong ships and open interesting avenues, but it's imo not P2W. As for cruisers, Kutuzov is solid as a dpm support, but of all pulled prems likely the least powerful and certainly not the game-winner. Certainly would never claim that Kutuzov could beat Chapayev in utility with its radar (though I'd argue Baltimore is the best radar ship). Atago is a solid pick for survivability, but its lack of dpm is notable. Prinz Eugen... outside of memeing around, I haven't seen that ever. Wichita and Montpellier are straight up less useful than their silver counterparts, Irian's role you could fill as well with Mogami. It's pretty clear that Baltimore is the main cruiser of the season, present in every lineup, not "OP Kutuzov". Atago I see often too, but I blame the proliferation of the ship, given how old it is. Many people by now own an Atago, Atago B or ARP Takao and like with the DDs (and Kutuzov), it's a good ship, but it is not a necessity. And BB-wise. Yeah, I saw a Massachusetts once. Good ship, but still not impressed to the point I want it. I'll stay with my current BB, which works quite well. And tbh, the greatest issue that may currently exist is that BB performance is more important than usual, as BBs carry more weight (being 1/6 of the team, not 1/7) and there exist no T8 cruisers that can fill a tanking role the way some T10s can. But this is an issue that exists that the lower you go, the less useful cruisers become, to the point T5 for example has one single worthwhile cruiser to run.

AFT is worth exactly nothing on Cleveland. Not even for 6 km secondaries. But certainly not for AA. Absolutely no reason to not get CE.

I mean, most played tier is 41 T8 battles in Asashio. So, apart from converting there's also just investing into premium economy... If you make 300k net earnings per game, 12 million is pretty achievable. And you know the economy.

Such results by themselves lack context and anecdotes are not helpful either. I played 4 DD per side+CV games in Harekaze and Yukikaze and got results with decent profits and 2 or more kills. That alone means little, heck, it's not even putting the Asashio in a good light, because the main thing you get the Asashio for is farming BBs. If you were looking for a DD killer, this is straight up the worst T8 DD. Kagero and Yukikaze offer the exact same anti-DD performance + torpedoes that can hit DDs (Yuki with F3 high speed torp memes) and the Harekaze is less hp for torps that can hit DDs and a vastly superior dpm. And then you get to better anti-DD DDs outside IJN... So, overall, the issue I see is that you lack the ability to put what you saw into proper context. Which is to be expected, given you are new to the game. But being new, it'd be better to accept that you do not have yet the necessary knowledge of ships to see the whole picture and that whatever WoT knowledge means nothing here. On 120 battles? In T2 and 3 ships? I doubt it.

Without trying to give myself too much credit, I do think that I prefer not being dumber and the world is better off this way. We have enough uneducated people already.

If you stare into the abyss for too long, it may stare back at you. I'd stop while you still can.

Bragging rights.

I consider the T10 possibility to be overrated. Something like Svietlana vs Krasny Krim makes sense, because Svietlana can just bowtank shots, while KK falls apart vs T7 in that regard and Svietlana needs no IFHE, but running into T10s with Edinburgh is hardly worse than running into T9s. And certainly better than running into T8s or T9s with Fiji, given Baltimore, Wichita, Atago and Ibuki outspot and overmatch your ship

Not getting overmatched by 203 anymore? Ability to choose radar instead of smoke? Ability to stealth torp (albeit with only 3 torps per side)?

The Stuka was taking away, because the plane speed WG wanted was not in line with slow Stukas and the Ta-152 matched it. And they refused to change it, because of that logic. Yet arbitrarily reducing the speeds across the board is somehow not violating that policy. Next they "buffed" the drop in a way that is nonsensical and made it actually worse. Frankly, GZ is the epidome of WGs incompetence regarding CV gameplay. If there was any doubt about WG having absolutely no clue how their own CVs work, GZ should dispel these doubts. Accordingly, feel free to give up your hopes, for even if they try to "fix" it, it'll be an absolute crapfest. Just look at the incoming AA changes.

Leave him be, no point in debating, unless you want 5 pages of argument as to why Stalingrad is absolutely broken and OP. If you don't recall the other arguments in the past, just keep in mind that seemingly someone thinks that GC roflstomping in its mid tier matches is way more of an accomplishment than Stalingrad beating people with bad positioning in T10 is.

No, I don't have to admit that. Unless I'd be completely foreign to the concept of game balance and be one of those morons that tries to argue "realism", as if that had a place when the game pretends that a North Carolina, a Benson and a Cleveland all have roughly the same combat value as T8 ships.

It wouldn't be WoWS without failing during critical times.

How dare one of the best AA DDs outperform a BB in AA performance! Clearly, BBs ought to be the AA master race even without any consumables, because surviving air strikes with hp, armour, torp protection, fighter plane wasn't good enough. I'm done. I'm not even going to argue this crap anymore, WG. If you cannot see how this logic is the greatest nonsense ever, then so be it, I doubt any amount of argument is going to convince your guys in charge of balancing this CV mess that this is some load of bullcrap.

Looking over all the info on AA changes coming out, we'll be in for a few funny months. Reducing defAA to be even more useless, reducing base values on AA due to new overlapping AA and reducing the modifier is making the whole thing quite questionable. But good thing WG were quite transparant as to how they balance AA with their latest statements. The implications of this sentence are pretty telling imo. Taken from here.

It's basically like a sidegrade to Cleveland. The guns are the same, but you can get extra range or extra dpm (I went for the latter) and you get the heal, but the hull is otherwise dreadful. Sluggish, bad firing angles, really just to be played behind islands. Frankly, I agree it isn't much fun, but in general, I don't play this line for the incredibly exciting gameplay.

Gneisenau is flat out better in the role, due to the 2 knots better speed to rush things down and a uniform secondary suit of 128 mm guns that get 31 mm HE pen base, while most of Scharnhorst's dpm is in 105s that get 17 mm.Scharnhorst needs IFHE to even just deal with T5 BBs, T7 cruisers and T8+ DDs. Gneisenau can farm even T9 cruisers with little issues and IFHE is just in case you want to pen T8+ BBs, though I don't recommend it really.

Azuma is not a T10 prem and I disagree, though with 3 T10 premium cruisers only, the selection is a bit lacking. But Yoshino is adequate for randoms, in Ranked it's ok, in CB it is likely as much of a weird pick as Salem and the sole ship that you find in CB regularly is the Stalingrad, which however is a steel ship, so purely from an economic point of view is harder to obtain. As to whether it is worth the coal, depends on what you want to get. If you are looking for a credit grinder, T9 prems beat T10 prems, so JB and Georgia are way better. But by the same logic Salem isn't worth it then. Nor would Smolensk be, given it too would be a T10 prem.

Sad, because I was told that I'm not allowed to play Monarch.

Except Yuro doesn't even call the ship bad. At worst he calls it lackluster and mediocre. And Yoshino is not a bad ship. It's a low-impact ship. Which doesn't equal bad, given some of the best ships in the game are low-impact (Henri and Zao for example may have more impact than Yoshino, but have lower impact than most other T10 cruisers, yet people still wouldn't call them bad). Especially in divisions or when you can count on team mates to do their job, Yoshino is a good fire support.

I prefer playing Zao or Yoshino in that role also because of accuracy and hydro. Lion already killed my will to get Conqueror with its lackluster accuracy, lackluster shell velocity and being pretty much just useful for soaking up damage.

The issue is that with DDs, CL/CAs (CCs are battlecruisers, btw) and BBs, there is vastly more counterplay than with CVs. Playing DD against any moderately decent CV is a game of not getting seen. Get spotted and you are at their mercy. I had some nice games in ships like Yukikaze, which rely on "not being seen", but also mostly because most CVs are absolutely trash. Meanwhile, you could also play something like Cleveland, one of the best T8 AA cruisers and get rocketted by Enterprise, with little you can ever do, as there is no way you cannot get seen throughout the match, unless you move to a map corner and pretend to not be there. Contrast that to DDs, cruisers and BBs, where you can very much mitigate their effectiveness by means other than "not be where the enemy is". DDs are the easiest, because they typically have the worst range, so anything moving away from them already is a pretty bad target. Not pushing in without proper recon works usually just fine and it doesn't matter what skill level that player has. Could be Flamu or god knows who in that DD, it's not hard not offering an easy to torp target. Against cruisers and BBs, terrain exists. Islands are there for a reason. Ocean is a terrible map for a reason. It's not like with CVs, where islands are an actual liability if the enemy has AP bombers and knows how to use them. And no, it's not adapting to the average player base. It's adapting to all people. I don't give a damn if the worst CV players have 0 PR and no damage because they fly into flak and are never an issue if the ones that know what they are doing seal the match on their own. Because every time you'll run into the latter, you basically wasted the game time. And there is no adapting you can really do, except cynically accept that the broken class continues to exist and most people are too terrible to play it/moved away from the class because WG made it a frustrating experience for both sides. Point for me was, you could make a better argument with a ship like Minekaze, where you don't run into Kamikaze being one of the reasons T5 is a terrible tier to play. All the points you listed could be applied to that ship, which people also actually have to play to progress a line and which is balanced, without opening the can of worms that is the Kamikaze and its clones. It was the statement you deserve for trying to argue about what word choice you find appropriate. If the only way to "adapt" is to not play, that is not "adapting", that's "avoiding". And you can argue about "noone is a pest", but I will disagree, though it certainly is not just a simple "this class is infesting the game". I rather think that certain classes have been chronically overpopulated, one class is still in a broken state that will likely never be really fixed, certain ships are questionable in their balance and certain ships in development are better off in the trashbin. If people then get fed up and consider a rather harsh language, I'd not go and try and make a moralist argument about whether their expressions you'd "prefer". And let's not even talk about the "lootbox infestation" of the premium shop.

BBs and cruisers, with BBs usually being more played in tiers up to T7 and cruisers being more played from T7-10. Mostly because up to T6, the utility aspect of cruisers doesn't outweigh the survivability of BBs imo. Königsberg or Nürnberg for example aren't bad ships, but the fun of lobbing shells from range to minimise chances of suddenly exploding I have yet to really find. Divving much with El2aZeR for such pessimism? Because tbh, it has been months since I saw a competent CV on any team that I felt ought to be feared in my T10 cruiser. I stopped using defAA and just use sector at most, because most people die to base AA these days and if I meet someone like our dear #1 Enterprise fan, not like anything else would keep me alive.

Because it was entirely impossible to adapt to CV unicums and still kinda is. There is hardly any real counterplay still when a good CV wants you dead and there is not much "adapting" you can do. Most people realised as much and thus "Just dodge" became a meme. Sorry, but even if you don't whine about it, Kamikaze earns no sympathy from me. All you said could have been said about the Minekaze or Mutsuki and it would have been even more true, because they are just straight up worse. "How do you play against weekend players on your team?"