invicta2012

CLs have decent armour, good guns (and lots of them) and decent AA. They don't have torpedoes, smoke, heals or long range, so positioning is key. CAs have the same, but with extra hitting power and durability - you can punish BBs harshly with that strong AP from Tier VIII up. The other nice thing is that now they are quite consistent in playstyle and that the only clunkers are at Tier IX, so you can take out a Dallas or Pensacola and have fun and be able to use that knowledge on later ships in the line.

CAs, I think. But Helena is still a great ship, whether with IFHE or not.

True, but most of those DDs have very short AA range anyway. *Hello Cossack* So the Detection penalty isn't too bad.

It gives you 18 seconds more of air detectability, provided that the CV stays within range of your AA guns. Which is quite an ask for anything other than static fighters, which can be shot down.

I'm hoping that remains the same, it would be good for WG to confirm, though. Well... sort of. The problem is as much with CV situational awareness as it is about DD detectability. You could leave DD detectability where it was if there was some way of a DD "going dark" and not letting its spotting being communicated to the CV, so that they only knew the DD was there when they over flew it within its detection range, rather than 10k away or whatever it currently is....

I would have thought that the detection range of the ship with AA turned on should never exceed the base detection of the ship on the surface.... I think there are a couple of cases (Skane, Kidd, Chung Mu, off the top of my head) where this is possible. However this looks like a major problem if you have a DD with AA on in a smoke screen. Any idea what the detectability rules are there? Even if it's the same as main gun battery (so 2.5K or so) that's rather more that it is at the moment.

That Scoreboard is hilarious. Siroco comes top with 7 kills and a double Tier IV fail division out performs a Kamikaze and a Tier VII. More of that sort of thing, please. Edit: I think what we need, based on that, is an old-school "Whatever" mode. Bring what you like, troll Yamato with Smith or V-25, if you can.

I like the idea, but it would have to be a mirrored MM so that you didn't end up with Hermes (one torp per squad) on one side and Ark Royal (three) on the other. But otherwise, if you have a sufficient number of games under your belt, why the heck not? If you can make it work, do it....

I like the look of that one - a scaled down Mainz? In any case, a Tier VII German CL is overdue. But although it's nice... it's a paper ship, innit? WG seem to have given up on (what I thought, anyway) was an interesting set of variations on real ships within a class. Perhaps this is about the German market and the need to get as many ships for their market ASAP.

I think WG sees mid-Tiers as event ships, and as they turn up in the Premium Shop as well they also keep mid-tier content coming for anyone who misses the event. Tier VII could do with a few new options, though.

They are keeping it for something special. (apparently)

American BBs please. Let's have more of the Georgia / Iowa sort of thing, six/eight/nine bigger guns on a faster hull.

Ryujo's torp planes and AP bombers, Ark Royal's triple torps.. cycle those properly and it could be nasty. I'm liking the idea of a British cruiser tag team, though. Leander and London could have Smoke/Spotter/Hydro, or Smoke/Fighter/Hydro, Devonshire and Leander could have Smoke, Hydro and DefAA. But I suspect CVs and HE spammies will be dominant.

I would have to give them the Brass Monkey Award for mightiest Cannonballs if they did, though.

This is the thing, you see. I know Alaska is a serious ship but in my head I can see Narai games where brawling Scharnhorsts make an awful mess of that Missouri (those 11 inch guns seem to retain their velocity and pen better at close ranges than Gneisenau's 15 inchers) and that's quite tempting for Co-op brawling laughs. So Agir appeals... (It doesn't help I also have 250,000 coal and a 25% off token for doubloon ships. Thunderer, Georgia, Massa, Tirpitz, Gascogne, Champagne, Lenin, Yoshino, Moskva, Agir, Mainz, Ochakov, Pyotr B, Marceau... help!).

I think there could be a limited benefit to having a few more radar ships at Tier VII, and possible the odd one or two at Tier VI, for familiarisation purposes. But those Tiers are supposed to be a golden period for DDs. Torpedo ships were the biggest threat before the advent of major naval aviation. It makes sense in game play terms too - this is where players learn about positioning and stealth and detection and generally maximising their offensive opportunities in a full-fat version of the game. The ships you get at those Tiesr are still quite heavily limited but good play is rewarded/rewarding, and those skills are incredibly useful later on when things get tougher. It's also a great zone for training captains and the like if you don't have 1,000,000 Elite XP to throw about... Overall I think the DD learning curve is fine - it's almost inevitable in the WoWs meta that DDs will be better in the middle tiers and start to suffer at the top tiers when everyone else becomes more powerful and mistakes can be punished hard.

Spreadsheets, comrade! The point about low and mid-Tier cruisers and heals is that we don't need to guess, or to calculate: we already know. There are low tier cruisers with heals (the British ones) and we know what that brings (limited extra survivability as these ships tend to take catastrophic citadel damage which can't be repaired). We know from Abruzzi or Albemarle that a strong heal can't fix a bad ship, but that adding a heal to a good ship can make it exponentially better (Boise > Helena). In respect of feelings and not facts... the Captain's feelings about their ship's survivability tends to define how they play. We already have too many players that sit and snipe in their BBs. Cruiser captains reluctant to engage because of the risk of being sconed from 20k by a unengaged battleship. We already have too few DD players, and those that play are constantly pestered by CVs, so why would it be good to introduce radar at lower tiers and bring all the static, nervous, camping gameplay from higher up down to the Tiers that are still quite unstructured and fun? It's not all about Preparing People for Tier X.

Small maps at Tier VI... fancy running into a cap on Fault Line knowing there are radar cruisers about? Range of 7k at Tier VI might work sometimes but I still think it might be situationally too strong. Again, situationally too strong. WG rowed back from giving Soviet BBs a Battleship only radar because they saw it was an "I win" button in Cyclone situations and CL radar would have the same effect in end-game situations where opponents are relying on stealth to give them a win. I don't have any problems with a few more balanced radar CLs at Tier VII by way of a gentle intro, but I really don't see it at Tier VI and below....

It's fun. And - rather like on the Jean Bart - it's a viable option in Co-op games. Considerably more entertaining to do this with a fast, manoueverable ship than with the lumbering American and German brutes most people favour. (although I really do agree that I think this ship has been specifically created to do everything else other than brawl with her secondaries).

Because there's plenty of Dakka Dakka. Mid tier CLs tend to be potent gunnery packages on vulnerable hulls. But that vulnerability is to BB shells - not to DDs. 10 seconds of HE from a radar Dallas or a Helena would be long enough to ruin most DD captain's days, and there's not so much to be done about it. If you look at Mid Tier Cruisers and radar it is difficult to find a ship to put it on... Heavy Cruisers would be OP with their recent armour buffs. Many CL lines have too much going for them already, so you'd probably be looking at up-tiered things like Richmond (Omaha class at Tier VI, given Murmansk's enhanced... everything + radar) or one of De Grasse/La Gal/Duca D'Aosta's sisters, at Tier VII. Fancy that? The much requested Sheffield (Tier VII, being given the Edinburgh choice of smoke or radar) is a solid choice for a mid Tier radar Premium, but it had to be a Tech Tree line I think we would get some half-mast adjustment to the Soviet cruisers, with Budyonny and Shchors moved to the CA line and some glass cannon CLs (son of Mikoyan) put at VI and VII and given radar by way of compensation. I'm not sure I fancy that, really.

The Med was a difficult and dangerous environment to work in and it tended to favour the smaller submarines of the U class (although the T's obviously had a major role). There were subs made for the Far East, however, so there should be designs equivalent of the other proposed lines (The US one goes Cachalot/Salmon/Balao, so I understand, so perhaps the Brits would be Thrasher/Parthian/Amphion, or perhaps even a series of smaller, stealther boats based on the S/U/V classes with the Mk1 T class at the top (with a full load of 10 torpedoes in the bow).

Definitely, I would have thought, there's a full line and then some.

You can do it in a Leader, Perth or Huang He, where you have smoke to escape in (if you take care to be near islands when exiting). London and Trento don't work so well because of their gun detection ranges. Non smoke cruisers need to be nice to a DD or just use islands. https://replayswows.com/replay/97261#scenario That's the last victory I played in. The guys in the Icarus and Warspite do very well (better than me) but it shows the values of destroyers, using torpedoes to slow the advance and engaging just over the defence perimeter rather than behind.

The GZ is a compilation album of WGs worst ideas. It's as if they started with the idea that the GZ was supposed have the same qualities as German BBs of the time (wonky but highly destructive main weapons, powerful secondaries) and worked up from there, rather than realising that all people wanted was a German aircraft carrier which worked. It was "national flavour" taken to the ludicrous extremes. And now you have an unarmoured secondary cruiser with immunity to fire and flood which scores citadel hits with AP bombs as an occasional bonus.

Some teams have trouble killing anything. You know you're in trouble when five ships are focusing on a cruiser with less than 1000 health and it still doesn't die. The Baltimore is a great help, if you can get it to spawn, but that second/third wave timing is still a pain. I found making the cruisers beach themselves in their eagerness to dodge torpedoes was a useful tactic.