Chaos_Umbra

Was just looking at the Daring and noticed that part of the model had been changed and it wasn't done very well either. The Squid Mortar at the stern had been removed along with the rails but the shadow of said missing objects was still in place, see below; Was this removed cause of the WIP submarines as the current version DD only use depth charges and not other ASW equipment and if so why remove it from the model just don't make it functional?

But what was the point of removing them from the model, they didn't do anything anyway, and even if they were going to make them animated for ASW there is no reason to remove them in the meantime? Just a really odd thing to do especially as you can see where they were cause the textures on the deck show something was there and it makes the models less accurate, there was a reason they were there cause they were IRL.

You were basically calling SAP a super HE shell with Higher pen and alpha with 0 fire chance, when in fact unlike HE it can ricochet which means against bow on targets it is useless which is kinda the whole point of HE to counter bow on targets. Unlike HE, SAP is situational at best and there are a lot of sacrifices the ships give up just for this 'special' ammunition. For example the T5 152mm guns have a reload of 13.5 secs (I think) with the SAP ammo, where as the Premium Duca with the same guns has a 7.5 sec reload but doesn't have SAP but HE instead and doesn't give up any cruiser utility either. I wonder which has the much better AP DPM...

Except when the target is perfectly bow on then your damage drops to 0 and the only way of doing damage is to use the torpedoes or if it is a Kremlin with 60mm armour all over then you just can't damage it, at least with HE you can cause fires. HE with the lower alpha will also pose less issues for DDs that unfortunately get spotted by another ship and take a 15k SAP hit while is compensation the guns can reload faster and also making the AP a ammo to switch to on broadside BBs cause atm the only reason to switch is if you can guarantee a citadel... Then you have all the other limitations added to the ships just for this gimmicky ammo, Long reload, bad Rudder shift, bad concealment, bad armour, bad AA, no Hydro or Def AA... yep totally worth it That is also ignoring the smokescreen that is both too good and useless at the same time, half the issue is the use of it offensively, just cut the action time then you can have a faster recharge and more charges as an escape tool!!!

This is the original Model for when the line was released as you can see the Squid mortar is clearly fitted with a rail.

Well the reason WG didn't give them Hydro is to limit the smoke being used offensively to rush DDs smokes, with the changes to the smokescreen I suggested it will then enable them to have a regular Hydro as a 10 sec smoke wouldn't allow you to cover much distance to rush a DD and you will probably be spotted before the Hydro was in range allowing the DD to have some counter-play. This is why I have always said the line needs a redesign from the ground up from the armour scheme, to the manoeuvrability (Turning circle -> Rudder shift time for better dodging), to removing the SAP and giving them a sub par HE shell, almost halving the reloads, swapping the muzzle velocities on the ammo so that the AP is faster than the SAP (HE), re balancing the smokescreen and giving them Hydro. Only with all that would I consider the line to be in a good position to actually properly start finer balancing tweaks...

I have no problems controlling multiple ships, and also there is a limit on how detailed the models of the ships can be cause they are based on the Proper miniatures which are fairly tiny thus low in detail. Mind you I don't play the multiplayer on it, I just play the campaign for the story and epic cut-scenes.

Just play Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 if you want to play 40k Space ships, not really something that would fit in WoWs...

The guns are the ones found on the T8 RN DD and they have a good alpha and fire chance for such small guns, so depending on how it is balanced it could be anywhere from tier 6 to 8 though Tier 8 would have to be fairly gimmick'd to work.

So what reason is there to switch to AP on the Italian cruisers if the SAP alpha is higher than the AP one, unless you can guarantee a citadel, which won't be happening on a T5 BB with 152mm guns... That's cause the smoke is designed for disengaging dropping off detection and resetting your bloom, IMO cause they reworked the Gun bloom back to what it used to be WG could halve the duration of all the smokes but give you 5 charges stock and a much faster reload, then it will be used more often and for what it is meant to be a free chance to turn out and get away in hit and run tactics... though atm there isn't much of a hit with the ships.

TBH it doesn't have to be HMS Dido in particular but a ship of the same class if there was one with a more distinguished service, on WoWs Blitz HMS Sirius is available as a premium, a lot of the interest is probably cause it is a more quirky ship design

Also it limits it to nations that are in the EU, plus the EU wasn't even a thing in 1945...

Wouldn't be as much of an issue if it was HE shells...

What's wrong with the Duca's formula it has been in the game only years with no problem be it OP or UP?

Much simpler just to remove the SAP then WG don't have to try and balance a 3rd quirky ammunition type...

I put the Taiwanese flag on all the PA DD that can have them and put the Tech tree flag on the Main Land Chinese ships just to spite their aggressive way they are stating their territorial claims.

I could actually see SAP working on the Roma cause it has trouble with overpenning broadside cruisers closer than 12km...

The Duca actually has a competitive armour scheme for it's tier, it (like you said) isn't too high like the Trento and is thicker at 80mm, then behind that there is another 30mm piece of armour so it has a double hull like the French Cruisers which combined with it's speed and fast rudder make it very tanky if you are not sailing in straight lines and know how to dodge BB AP salvos, and while the HE is weak it at least can set fires, damage modules and deal with DDs while the player actually has a reason to switch to AP on broadside targets even BBs cause it has a higher damage potential than the HE even without citadels (you know good game design), then on top of that it has actual cruiser utility skills like Hydro which allow it to hunt DDs rush the smoke screens use the rudder to dodge torps, sink them then use the enemy smoke to disengage then the speed to make a get away... Then you actually have half the reload on top of it thus making is even better at hit and run tactics as you get multiple salvos not just one which could always RNG willing miss. The Tech tree Italians are compromised in basically all of these traits just for the SAP and Smoke Gimmicks which in turn makes them un-fun. HE and only SAP shells with the same crap dispersion that Roma has and the brilliant new feature Fuel supplies after travelling a set distance in a match you run low on fuel and are left at half speed for the rest of the match, this is balanced by having a faster reload, quicker than the Italian cruisers of the same tier.

What are you on about? So are you implying that all the other BB lines are exactly the same with no defining characteristics? Each line has their own identity without interfering with the lines Identity as being BBs, point of BBs is to deal devastating salvos to broadside targets when they appear and deleting them... a BB line where the accuracy is so bad and the AP so unreliable that you just do more damage with HE even if they are broadside has something seriously wrong with it, the fact that to play enjoyable RN BBs by spending money just makes the whole issue with the line even more apparent, and it is not just the Guns that are the issue so is the armour on them, take the KGV for example which was one of the decent armoured BBs at the time it basically cannot directly fight any equal tier BB cause it will get overmatched and citadeled even when angled, which then leads to firing from max range with HE... Heck last time I took the DoY out I had much better success hunting DDs in the thing the role of cruisers not BBs. The line is fundamentally bad for the game in it's entire concept... And now we are seeing the same thing with the Italian cruisers, Cruisers with 0 utility only able to occasionally when the stars align deal big occasional salvos which is the role of a BB but without having any of the advantages that BBs have... These 2 lines are the worst offenders in this game of being compromised by gimmicks added to the ships to make them supper different when you don't need any of this rubbish to differentiate 2 lines, I've never seen anyone say that the Amagi is basically the same as an NC...

If you compare it to the Duca D'Aosta your list of positives would get much shorter and your negatives much longer, the Gimmicks on the line do more harm than good which is a shame as I was really looking forward to the line cause of the Duca game-play, but these are the complete opposite in game-play. They need to be taken away and done again from scratch...

Thunderer is for players that actually want a BB that can use the AP, in otherwords not the stupid gimmick ridden RN BB line, the only ships I enjoyed were Warspite, Hood and Vanguard. What do they all have in common good accuracy, good turning and good AP. This is what the RN BB line should have been in the first place not the fire damage farming simulator they are and if not for their addition I bet we would have half as many BBs of other nations also spamming HE...

I played the Trento when it was on the PTS and it was horrible, sure the SAP was even worse but it did at least have 17km range that meant your shells dropped like Atlanta shells, which with the SAP actually worked at max range on USN, RN & MN T10 BBs, was useless against everything else except Kirovs, but the things that limit that ship so much are things like how the armour is worse than a Molatov's it has the worst rudder shift (except Graf Spee) and the worst concealment there are 0 positives over the other Cruisers of that tier and that is saying something seeing as the Pensacola is 10 times a better ship. Well unlike the Italian cruiser initial stats released the initial stats of the RN HCs do at least look very competitive, but until the armour schemes are leaked we can't really make much of a verdict atm, but at the moment I am fairly positive on them, unlike the Gimmick ridden Italians...

True but it doesn't have the pen angles of SAP and still has other factors such as it can overpen and the penetration calculation is simplified... still don't like the Ammo as it is more of a negative than a positive and WG have had to add so many limitations on the ships to balance it out, and as most have found the limitations are just not worth it and it removes the fun in the game. I would always pick the Duca in every situation over these ships cause it has the tools, actual manoeuvrability and armour and thus have fun games like this one last night... I can tell you 100% if I had been in the Trento or the Monticouccoli I would have died long before and done a pitiful amount of damage and hardly got any kills...

The reason you are targeted first is because you really have to angle against SAP all the time limiting you in angling against other targets so of course the super squishy cruiser that is forcing you to be bow on is your first and top priority just below the DD less than 6km from you about to torpedo rush you...

Well as the Gun Bloom fix was reverted back, then it open the possibility of having the smoke last for less than 20 secs as it only needs to be 2 secs for your detection to reset, then for example the tier 5 we could have a 10 sec deployment with 5 sec duration and that is more than enough to reset the detection then you can have a faster reload and many more of the consumable, then for the tier 10 it could be a 20 sec duration with 5 sec bloom to fit the tier better. That will solidify the smoke as an escape tool then the ships can be given Hydro so that they have some utility.