Chaos_Umbra

I free xp'd the Monarch cause it was something WG made up at the last minute the Lion isn't worth it though the guns can't hit broadside cruisers at 6km and miss stationary ships at 9km... the Conqueror is better though your shells tend to go into the square you aimed at. TBH your better of just getting the Thunderer as it is a BB which you can use AP and it will actually go where you aim it and can citadel BBs!

Against Spotted DDs... what about any other ship that is bow on, cause I think most can agree that SAP is OP against DDs and awful against anything else...

Found the best ship in the Line!!! The tier 1: it has a 3.5 sec reload, HE and a fast rudder shift! How shocking...

The only good work they did was the 3D models... they are nice to spin in port...

Could have told them that when they first revealed the initial stats... oh wait I did but feedback was ignored...

They were there I've had them for over a year...

Plunging fire makes it easier to pen with SAP though...

Shame that shell velocity does nothing for improving SAP shells, if only the AP had the same Velocity...

Not really all they have done is put content from a old collab on sale again for those that missed it 0 worked needed to be done by the devs only the marketing department.... and it's not like an almost completely grey camouflage is less immersive then the many different camouflages already in game with crazy patterns and colours... And it's not like there's an option in game to turn it off...

It's Balance KOMRADE!!!! Fun and engaging!!! Spreadsheet says your having fun!!!

Exactly... this ammo doesn't match with most of the ships in the lines gun ballistics...

Well I meant with the 203mm guns overall as I tested it on the PTS in that ship with some tier 6-10 BBs to test on. But either way the ammo seems to do better with Atlanta shell arcs...

Except there are ships with a better Alpha damage and faster reload on the same tiers... leaving the Italian cruisers as down right terrible...

I would trade turning circle for rudder shift all the time, it's why the Duca D'Aosta takes less damage than the Abruzzi the rudder is 2 secs faster with a larger turning circle. Ironically SAP can work well with those droopy shells on the Trento cause it means that at max range your shells come almost straight down thus allowing you to target BB decks... well as long as they are not Russian or German...

You know a line is bad when you wish that you were in any other cruiser of the same tier or even a lower tier... Like how I used to wish sometimes that I was in the Duca D'Aosta instead of the Abruzzi in a tier 8 game cause I would be able to avoid taking as much damage in it and have better AP...

Except all other cruisers have the tools to do this either by having a smaller citadel, having better armour, having better concealment, having a better rudder shift or more commonly all of those traits... Only problem with that is your 100% reliant on someone else doing the spotting and we all know what happens in random battles when you try and rely on those idiots you've been stuck with... Then there is the fact that you have no Hydro... I can see playing against a PA DD will be very fun and engaging. IMO I think they do far too much damage to DDs but are hopeless against everything else... Also that WG video that they put out on it is full of lies, good manoeuvrability? 13 sec rudder shift is not good manoeuvrability I have BBs with better rudders... Ignoring the Gimmick for a minute, just the ship characteristics themselves are bad they are near the bottom in every characteristic except speed and that is it...

I think it is also partially a case of the ships have no real direction in what play-style they are meant to have, the stats for the ships themselves ignoring the guns for now are all over the place you have high speed which makes it seem like a flanker or hit and run ship, but then you have terrible concealment which makes it seem like a back-line support ship, then you have the terrible armour layout which means they are not tanking ships so you have to dodge but are given one of the worst rudder shifts of the tier. Then accounting for the gun range they are definitely not back range snipers so you end up with a poorly armour'd ship that has to stay close due to poor gun range but also has to stay back due to poor concealment and a ship that has good speed but can't dodge well due to the rudder shift time and has a tight turning circle that benefits moving at a slower speed... None of the stats compliment each other, the same can be said of the special captain that is to be released next patch, I think the best fit ship for it was the Zao and even then you were not using Torpedo Acceleration...

The unfortunate thing is that I gave almost identical feedback months ago, when the Research Bureau was on PTS cause if you grind'ed enough (I played until 4AM some nights) you could try out the Italian cruisers, managed to get the Trento as I needed to really test the 203mm guns to get a proper idea on the SAP, and basically had exactly the same thoughts as back then, only changes since then were the change that SAP did full damage to DDs and that the range was Nerf'd... all other characteristics on the ships stayed the same, my hype for the line that had already been blunted by the initial stats release was well and truly ended. Same happened with the RN BBs, enjoyed the Warspite for it's reliable hard hitting guns and end up with a line of HE spamming ships that can't hit the broadside of a barn from within the barn (then there is the whole KGV at tier 7 thing that ship is awful and the Monarch I skipped out of principle as it was made up at the last minute due to the KGV being dropped a tier cause of lack of overmatch... never caused issues for the Scharnhorst...). Its a shame really cause I feel that the team that makes all the ship models ends up having their work hated and only due to what the balance team do to it later. I especially felt sad for the guy that model'd all the spotter and fighter aircraft on the RN cruisers cause no one in their right mind would ever use those consumables over smoke thus their work is never seen.

@Crysantos I think the main issue is that we have had 2 really strong ship lines released as of late the RU BBs and the MN DDs, then the first Italian line in the game and it seems to be a load of gimmicks stuck on some very bad ships. I was really looking forward to the line partially cause the team doing the modelling for the ships has done a great job and the Italians designed some good looking ships in the first place. But it is mainly cause I enjoyed the Italian cruisers that were already added to the game the Duca D'Aosta and the Abruzzi (More the Duca than the Abruzzi), which the former had some very nice traits going for it without being OP; good stealth Great top speed Fast shell velocity Good AP reasonable reload for good AP DPM Hydro a very good rudder shift time good torpedo angles Has HE Decent armour scheme when used correctly Poor turning circle Instead we got this Worst stealth in class Decent top speed Fast shell velocity on certain tiers Meh AP God Awful reload for terrible AP DPM No Hydro Almost worst in class rudder shift time good torpedo angles No HE but an ammunition that basically makes AP redundant unless shooting a target you can citadel at that range while making you unable to damage bow in targets (especially RU BBs) Awful armour scheme except on a few ships Tight turning circle Special smoke screen with very limited charges, long reload which is both very strong but also a weakness as you tend to want to save them in case of an emergency as they are so limited You can kinda see why a lot of people are unhappy with the ships in the state they are they have so many areas whey they are absolute bottom out of all cruisers just to balance out 2 gimmicks added to the line, I understand the reasons of some of the limitations added for balance but it just turns the ships into being a chore to play and essentially unfun... This is a ship line where you want to stay at range due to the poor armour and poor concealment (Like most other cruiser releases French Russian) where as the First Italian ship released was the complete opposite it was a hit and run ship which when up-tier'd could fall back on a kiting role. The SAP ammunition I don't think is a good match for a cruiser line especially in the state it is currently in, my preference is for this gimmick to be removed and maybe readjusted for the Italian BBs when ever they arrive (Roma does have an Overpen issue...) but if it stays it needs the Alpha lowering and the gun reload improving cause then your not going to wait 20 secs for the guns to reload only to be massively disappointed as you do 0 damage this will help fix the massive 15k salvos DDs can take when hit basically 1 shot-ing them and at least increase your chances of doing some damage to bow on targets by just having more shots down range. As for the smoke screen I see the reason for Hydro's removal is the offensive usage of the smoke which combined with Hydro would be broken, I think it would be better for the smoke to be limited to retreating as much as possible by at least halving the work time across the board cause with the Gun bloom change you don't need a 20 sec smoke to go undetected in theory only a 2 sec one is needed thus a 10 sec smoke screen is perfectly usable as a getaway tool while limiting it's offensive uses, then the reload can be dropped and the number of charges increased while giving the ships Hydro so they can at least spot torpedoes and rush ships hiding in smokescreens. As for the handling just increase the turning circle and cut the rudder shift time, for a fast open water cruiser that relies on dodging you need a fast rudder over a tight turning circle as the tight turning circle is more of a disadvantage as it means you loose more speed in the turn (Plus these long thin ships having a tight turning circle breaks Hydrodynamics, why was this followed on ships like the Hood but now suddenly ignored, long thin hulls allow a ship to go faster but hinder the ships ability to turn, while short wide ships have limited top speed but a tight turning circle). Lastly the armour why is it that you have reasonable armour schemes no tier 2 to 5 and then at tier 6 to tier 9 you have the worst armour scheme of the tier? Where did the double layered hull go? why are the citadels even larger than the squishy'est cruisers currently in the game? Why is this also combined with some of the worst concealment in the game? The issue isn't just the SPESHULL ammunition the entire ship line is a mess in the stats across the board essentially these ships don't know what they are meant to be this is also seen in the new Italian commander the skills and bonuses don't really fit any of the ships in the Italian nation atm the best ship I could see it being good on was the Zao and even then the torpedo acceleration improvement is wasted... This is just the most recent in a long line of bad balance decisions, RU BBs, Smolensk, French DD torps at the top tiers (Compared to IJN F3 torps...). On a good note at least the initial stats for the RN CA's look competitive and the ships not overly gimmick'd... as of now...

0 atm still 3 more free containers to go... Maybe they don't like me cause I hate how they have ruined the ships with gimmicks...

I'm just getting the camos so they can look pretty in port... and that is where they will stay unless WG make major changes to them... which case the 'Gimmick'... I mean Balance department is so stubborn it won't happen cause nothing they do is a bad idea... RN BB, RU BBs, Smolensk, Stalingrad, Colbert, Research Bureau etc...

Problem is if you make the angles too good you have a ship that you cannot angle against and unlike HE damage you can't heal all the SAP damage back as it is essentially an AP shell... not sure anyone would like to take 15k salvos from the front especially BB players... though cruisers will be hit hardest. This ammo seems to go from nearly useless to down right OP and to try and balance it out they are nurfing the base ship stats to compensate which just end up making them unfun to play...

I've been open water gun boating in my Smolensk in Clan Battles it is actually quite tanky cause; A you stay at range from BBs and B you have a 30mm deck and upper belt which makes you able to bounce Montana shells, then if you are in a 1vs1 with any cruiser you outright out HE DPM it even with just the front guns, just need to be careful of large gun cruisers like Stalingrad as they overmatch the bow... I think the ships give up too much for it IMO I think it should actually have a shorter duration but more charges and a faster cool down, thus making it purely a retreat tool, but in compensation you can get Hydro and better stealth (cause that is what WG made worse or removed to balance out the 45sec smoke at tier 10... Other than the speed the manouverability is actually rather poor sure the turning circle is tight (this makes no sense as the longer and thinner a ship the larger the turning radius, seems WG forgot the thing called Hydrodynamics...) but what you need when dodging shells in a cruiser is a snappy rudder shift which they are basically the bottom of the pile of cruisers of the same tier (turning circle also means you bleed more speed in the turn which works on BBs but not cruisers...). Then there is the citadels and well comparing the tier 6 to the Molatov it is worse in every way in terms of survive-ability... My preference is for them to just give them HE like the Duca, I don't think anyone has called the HE on that thing OP, then they can drop the reload by like 30-40%. Lets not forget the AP isn't anything special either so it not only has nothing special in the AP alpha it is also bottom in terms of AP DPM... I'm just glad that WG don't touch premiums otherwise I would not be able to have fun in the Duca anymore if they 'buffed' it to match the tech tree ships...

Bought the tier 8 and 7 ones, but unfortunately RNGesus doesn't like me and after the 9 free containers I have opened so far I have had 0 missions... Well at least the ships are lookers so unless the camo is ugly they should look good, at least they will be good at something looking pretty in port...

Still doesn't change that the ships have some of the worst rudders and worst concealments along with terrible reload and the largest citadels amongst all cruisers... the lack of hydro and the limitations of the default ammunition were just the icing on the cake... thank god they haven't balanced the Ducas to match the tech tree ships so I can still have fun in them, without wishing I was in any other cruiser...