Chaos_Umbra

Duca out spots it by 2km has a 2 second faster rudder and almost half the reload, and if the AP is comparable to Duca despite being 203mm vs 152mm then that means it's lacking also the fact that Duca not only has a smaller citadel with more armour but also spaced armour adds even more tankyness, then it also has Hydro, Def AA and HE so what stat does the Trento win in... Turning circle and that is it... So a direct comparison then lets put both ships into a tier 8 game... Trento Duca I wonder which game I actually had fun in...

Every cruiser at tier 10 out AP DPMs it...

Just wondering if the armour viewer changes would actually show important bits of armour that were removed cause WG deemed it too complicated to show that the GC has a 85mm internal bow making it immune to frontal citadels, cause IMO I think that is a rather important piece of information to be shown to the player...

Well compared to a 460mm gunned BB...

Wonder why I kept the tier 6-8 US light cruisers or the tier 8 IJN cruiser or the tier 5-8 French cruisers, or the tier 6-8 RN cruisers, or the tier 6-9 French BBs? Reason they were all good fun ships, the Italians... well I guess they look pretty in port that is about the best place for most of the line. Also I never said the tier 10 is bad just that the line only starts to become somewhat playable at tier 7 and even then the ships are massively limited in most of their stats to balance out the 'oh so amazing' SAP and Smoke...

That would explain why you have no clue how bad and limited the line is in the mid to low tiers, Zara is where the ships become playable, below that they just devastate your WR as you have 0 tools to carry with worst concealment in class worst rudder in class, no Hydro not up to rail-gun shells, more fast shells with parachutes attached to them and the largest citadels with the worst armour. Finally got to the tier 8 and that is so limited with the stock range! what were WG thinking with the 14km odd range? Also running it with double rudder so I don't have to brew a cup of tea before it starts turning and even foregoing Concealment Module it is still stealthier than the Tier 6 Trento.... Ship seems to do damage well when people sail broadside to you and completely ignore you and don't shoot at you, mind you I could have done exactly the same without all the limitations in any other T8 cruiser without having to give compromises... Balancing a line so that it is only good when using a special captain just proves how much WG #@?!ed up this entire line...

Problem is it means you have to rely on your team mates to spot them for you... and you know how relying on team mates in randoms works out... Plus you have on counter to DW torps... I did finally have a decent game in the Zara with over 100k damage, but I just felt that it was irrelevant damage from just farming SAP damage on BB superstructures and had little impact on the team actually wining the game which doesn't feel good tbh...

Guns are accurate and SAP has theoretical High alpha, the AP is bog standard nothing special so there is no AP alpha. SAP is situational, when ever I use it I'm always surprised when it does damage sometimes it does nothing others 8k with little consistency especially when the only thing you can target is a bow on BB what do you do then pray they are idiots and eat torps or give you broadside? Then you have the low DPM which for the SAP is theoretically in line with other lines HE shells, so in the end you have noe advantage other than the pen but without fires and having inconsistency on it, and as a side effect of this the AP DPM is at the absolute bottom of all cruisers by quite a margin... Manoeuvrability is hit and miss tiers 6-7 are nothing special and the rudder shift time is downright crap which is what is most important in dodging shells not turning circle which then leads to the next point avoiding citadels... Hard to citadel... Pfft you joking mate? They have normal cruiser armour that every BB overmatches and have the largest raised citadels and often have one erratic BB AP shell shave off 20k hp in a bow or stern position. Long range torps are low damage and slow, just there as a supplementary weapon, and very prone to having allies sail into them despite careful aiming. The smoke is strong but limited, mainly due to the long reload on it and the limited charges, would have preferred shorter more frequent ones with more charges TBH then we could have had Hydro on them so they are not completely hard countered by DW torps. Some of your benefits are not really benefits without having massive limitations on them or your understanding of the ships they are competing with is lacking. Every other cruiser line has better utility than this one and none of those are seen as OP so why does this line need so many limitations on it that just make them completely un-fun...

The most you get out of the Trento is 12.7km Concealment... The Arizona has 12.6km... he is not wrong about the ships concealment being crap. And what are these benefits, cause so far the Negatives outweigh any positives 10 to 1...

Until you notice the Pensacola has a 5.3 sec rudder with rudder mod... I found it incredibly clunky, maybe that's cause I'm used to the Duca's 5.6 sec rudder, for dodging shells Rudder shift time is much better than Turning circle. Turning circle is best on BBs when you need to dodge torps or change angling. I used to have fun in the old T8 New Orleans with double Rudder mod cause a cruiser with a 3.5 sec rudder is so nimble... Our definitions of nimble must be completely different... Also if the hulls so good why is it out spotted by a God damn Arizona!!! For me the line isn't only hindered by the SAP and other gimmicks, but the hulls massively hinder the line too.

You do know it only has the same speed as the Aoba so it is middle of the pack in terms of speed with Duca D'Aosta blasting away from it like a Ferrari along with the De Grasse and La Gal (With speed boost) and even the lowest ships of the tier are only 2 knots slower (Excluding Graf Spee). As for the rudder have you actually compared it... it is the slowest out of all tier 6 cruisers. Then you have the concealment that is also the worst of the tier and it even gets out spotted by some Tier 6 Battleships, like the Arizona, and with the sort of terrible armour it has I would put all my money on the Arizona that out spots it winning that fight rather quickly. Check your facts first next time before coming out saying it is good at something it isn't...

I would say the Trento is worst as it has the least citadel armour of the tier and the largest citadel with the longest rudder shift and worst concealment, surely the Tier 9 can't trump that for having worst stat in almost every category...

Also the Tier 10 has spaced armour like the T5 so it is very tanky in comparison to the tiers 6 to 9 with their Cathedral sized exposed citadels...

TBH I have hit one friendly with the torps but in my defence I was on a parallel course to him about 2km behind him with him also in front of me and targeting a ship going the opposite Direction... how was I to know the friendly Algerie would do a full u-turn broadside to a Scharnhorst at 7km and turn around and sail into my torps that where never gonna hit him if he hadn't made a very questionable manoeuvre... I think he might have been trying to get the other-side torps on his ship off, though the Scharnhorst at that point was so low that it was unnecessary...

Yes I am, and the endless teams of Potatoes didn't help either... Suppose I'd better take out the Duca D'Aosta again to bump up my WR... have a 77% WR in that ship, a proper cruiser without the gimmicks no less...

Recently got the Zara, but I'm finding you have to really out play the enemy to be able to even do any effective damage, so far the line for me: T1 = Very solid ship with Fast reloading turrets, good manoeuvrability, good concealment and most importantly HE. T2 = Balanced against itself, though odd how the 3.5 reload on the same sized guns turned into 12 seconds... T3 = Only way to damage BBs was with torps... T4 = very squishy but had decent AA for tier 4, most other aspects were fairly meh. T5 = I found it fairly decent actually but only due to the 10.1km concealment allowing you to ambush broadside cruisers with AP (Cause the SAP was so unreliable) though the issue was that the AP is so low alpha that it takes a lot of citadels to kill a cruiser and with the terrible reload you can get your ambush turned on you. SAP I only used on DDs and from max range on BBs (When there was nothing left to shoot at) Cause the plunging fire with the spotting aircraft meant you could get some consistent pens on the deck. T6 = Worst ship so far. Mostly due to the awful concealment 12.7km with a full stealth build, Pensacola is better and Even most BBs of the tier will out spot you for example the Arizona. Basically the role of an alpha strike ship is already done better with the Pensacola that not only has more guns but the AP shell velocity is actually higher, it has better stealth, better armour, Hydro, HE and a very fast rudder. Only thing the Trento has over the Pensacola is speed which is not that amazing as the Aoba is just as fast. SAP was again unreliable I always felt surprised when it actually did damage. Once again I ended up only using the SAP on DDs and BBs when there was nothing else to shoot. Used the AP a fair bit cause of the overmatch on tier 5s and punishing broadside Cruisers when within 11km... T7 = So far it isn't too bad, only just got the hull upgrade, turning circle is great, but it just makes you loose too much speed, much prefer the handling of the New Orleans. Still a massive citadel, 12.2km concealment is better but still IMO needs to be at least 0.5km better to be competitive. Speed in not there so harder to dodge. SAP I'm finding a bit more reliable but still would have preferred a faster reload with a weak HE shell. AP is fairly decent on broadside cruisers but SAP does more damage to everything else so it doesn't have much use. All but one of my games were tier 9 so it's been a bit of a struggle, but not as much as the Trento. The smoke doesn't add to much to the line as you have so few of them would rather have a Hydro TBH, rudders I feel need to be 1 sec faster across the board with a increase in turning circle to compensate. Smokes would be more useful if they were just shorter duration and with a faster reload and more of them, then maybe they could have had Hydro as you can't use them offensively. SAP is so unreliable at least until tier 6/7 (but OP when shot at DDs) lower alpha as has been said and a faster reload, will also help the abysmal AP DPM... WG already said that they are keeping the SAP, so we will just have to deal with it... Forgot the citadels are humongous from tier 6-9 which makes them easier to citadel than RN CLs on the open, would have been nice if they kept the double layered hulls from the tier 5 and 10... As a side note, from this graph guess where the point where I started grinding the Italian line is... Biggest drop was just due to the Trento...

Both codes don't work anymore

Trento is a complete turd compared to the Monti, at least the Monti has a decent armour scheme and 2.6km better concealment... still a bad ship as I did 9 Citadels 1 game and that only amounted to 34k damage. The ships have only Theoretical SAP Alpha there is no AP Alpha or AP DPM at all... When playing Trento stock in a tier 8 game, I would have preferred being in an Emerald...

So what would it do if you already have manual secondaries, cause with that skill they don't auto fire so you get no benefit from it.

Don't think this was mentioned but the Perth also has an improved Spotting Aircraft and with the spotting aircraft upgrade it can self spot from in smoke, I think it lasts almost 4 mins, also you can use the Smokescreen Upgrade to extend that as well, Perth is like the Huanghe but it has more range available to it so it is better against BBs but it has a little worse concealment and slower shell velocities so it isn't quite as good against DDs and broadside cruisers (Has worse AP) but still a very solid ship. I disagree on this point, the Duca has a 2 sec better rudder that allows you to actually dodge incoming fire and torps, it also has a better armour scheme where no BB overmatches the outer layer or the inner armour (Abruzzi outer layer can be overmatched), also Abruzzi has a slight reverse turtle back on the citadel that deflects shells into itself. It also has less reliable AP as it looses the muzzle velocity to the HE which is also overall a negative. It had the heal added cause it had worse survivability than the Duca it is there to make it playable... but as was said still more fun than the Tech tree ships though it was given the poor dodging characteristics of the main line.

You can go Vigilance to mitigate the lack of hydro... might allow you on occasion to dodge DW torps... Maybe incoming fire alert so you get a little warning before a BB Blaps you. As was said Expert Marksman is also a decent pick as even with a slow rudder the turrets turn even worse... Maybe PM due to nothing else worth picking?

There fixed it for you

^This I found the tier 2 very balanced against it's self just hope that there are no other nations cruisers on the enemy team... Taranto on the other hand is only capable of damaging BBs with torps, at least your detection range is almost equal to the torp range so you can just stay un-spotted and pray they run into them. Still dunno where this supposed good manoeuvrability is coming from, obviously my client must be different from everyone else cause they seem to have a 2 sec slower rudder then the competition...

Shame that tight turning circle works best on slow moving BBs allowing them to dodge torps where as a tight turning circle is a negative for fast ships than need to dodge incoming fire. This is why I find the Duca has better survive-ability than the Abruzzi, the ships are very similar except the Abruzzi has a tighter turning circle and a 2 sec slower rudder (for reasons that are the complete opposite of hydrodynamics...) I always find I am able to doge in the Duca where as the Abruzzi just takes a massive citadel instead...

Dunno where everyone is getting this fast rudder from, compared to other cruisers of the same tier they are almost rock bottom in the stat, heck some of my BBs almost have a rudder that is just as fast...