Chaos_Umbra

There are 2 secondary modules the one they are combining is the one that gives them a 15% reload buff not the 20% range one, that one stays as is.

Dogs have owners... Cats have staff

Well basically it means an even playing field so IJN torps are not effected as much whilst still hitting harder than the others, where as all the other DDs will less often land torps thus with their lower damage will be affected much more.

Hasn't this already been done once? And isn't this half the reason that the level of play in randoms has collapsed cause now you only need like a game or 2 in CoOp before you get access to random battles, I remember researching a line to tier 4 in CoOp before being given access to Random battles...

So it is a massive buff to all IJN torpedoes well at least with this they won't have the worst torps any more...

I'm surprised the Fantasique's torpedoes are not also getting the same nerf...

Yes I am saying the Pensacola has better armour cause it is a fact compare the armour models and tell me otherwise, sure the Pensacola is squishy, but the Trento is even more so with the concealment and rudder disadvantages on top. All BBs have extremities that max out at 32mm easily low enough for SAP to pen, why would I want to do 4k with AP when I can do 8k with 1 SAP salvo? SAP DPM is about in line with all other Cruisers HE DPM except unlike the binary HE which either shatters or pens SAP can also bounce on top of that unless you over match which is basically low tier DDs low tier RN Cruisers and Cruisers T5 and below and in the latter cases AP is better cause you can citadel them... So where is this SAP being more reliable? It has 2 ways that it can fail t do damage compared to 1 for HE, the DPM is in line with other ships cause they get 2 salvos to your 1 then the fires and module damage on top. To keep the SAP DMP in line the ships have bad reload and thus have the lowest AP DPM of all cruisers and even some BBs out AP DPM them... for example the fastest reload a Brindisi get is about 17 secs, a Des Moines has 5.5 secs, Des Moines also has very hard hitting AP with improved AP pen angles in the time you get 1 salvo off he will have had 3, so you might put out 12 shells at once but before you reload he would put out 27... and he can pen you at a steeper angle... and he out spots you by 3km and has Hydro and Radar... You also might want to play more games in the ships before you start arguing the most games you've had in any of them was 7 in the Monticoucoli all the rest have less games and you have only reached the Zara, also you most played class is BBs where as mine are cruisers... I think I have a bit more experience on this topic than you...

Good thing you didn't play it on the PTS when SAP only did 10% damage to DDs... and the Trento only received nerfs before reaching live (other than the global change to SAP), mind you that was mainly that it had better range than the tier 7-9 ships in the line. SAP is basically flawed from the start that is why I spent hours on the PTS doing the Research bureau test to try the ship early and all it did was confirm my fears on it, it is a gimmick there for the sake of being different, the same with the smoke it is both strong and a hindrance; strong cause the length of time it deploys for and a hindrance cause you have so few charges and such a long recharge and the ships completely rely on it cause of massive citadel and terrible concealment then there is the fact the ships give up hydro for it as well meaning you have no counter for any ships in smoke with Hydro... in other words all RN light cruisers and some DDs. Even ignoring the Gimmicks other than speed and turning circle the other stats are just bad.

Pensacola actually has a rather small citadel it is below waterline and the bow and stern, also the middle sits lower in the water and the actual belt on it is higher in thickness, and Concealment is a massive difference it allows you to dictate the engagement on your terms, it doesn't matter that per shell the Trento does a little more AP damage when Pensacola fires to more shells. You also seemed to have ignored that the Rudder is almost 2 secs faster and that is a big difference when it comes to dodging incoming shells and hence why I find the Duca has much better survive-ability than the Abruzzi. It's not like they would be OP with HE for Christs sake, if they had HE then obviously the HE Alpha would be lower than the AP Alpha, cause atm there is no reason to use AP on broadside targets unless you can guarantee a Citadel as SAP would always do more damage as the SAP has a stupidly High Alpha (in theory), this is why it can be a bit OP against DDs whilst at other times being completely hopeless. When you have 2 ammo choices you are meant to have one that is reliable at dealing damage but the output is low and then you have AP with a higher damage potential, but at the risk of dealing 0 damage if used in the wrong situations, with the Italians both ammo options can be completely mitigated and the AP is basically only usable against broadside cruisers cause on BBs (if you know how to aim) you will always do more damage with SAP. This is a complete flaw in the lines concept from the start. The play-style you describe is how the Duca D'Aosta plays except you have cruiser tools, stealth, fast rudder, half the reload, faster AP shells and has the option to deal with bow on BBs... and on top of that it is a fun ship to play, basically every time I took out any of the Italian cruisers I wished I was playing a Duca and if you say anything about the HE on that being OP then you are clearly not right in the head cause it is one of the most anaemic HE shells in the game with terrible fire chance, but at list it won't bounce. SAP is a lottery you might occasionally do an 8k salvo followed by a load of 1.7k ones and even more 0k damage salvos basically you wait 15 seconds to be rewarded with disappointment every time you fire the guns and that is not a fun thing to play and actually a chore, that is also why I stacked so many XP camos on the ships when grinding the line I wanted to be done with them as soon as possible so could play something more fun... I have no idea how you managed to not figure out how to use HE on other ships... come on the concept is simple you aim where the armour is 32mm or less and boom you always do damage and knock out AA mounts and set fires, the French have decent HE only second to the IJN cruisers.

I'm of the complete opposite opinion on all of what you've just said, I would rather play any other tier 6 or 5 cruiser instead of the Trento, Pensacola is 10 times the ship the Trento is. Pensacola has a larger Alpha strike with AP, better AP shell velocity, Better stealth, a much faster rudder, has team play tools like Hydro, has a much smaller citadel and the citadel has more armour, reasonable AA, oh and lets not forget it has HE so it can destroy AA mounts and damage bow on targets!!!! Also Huanghe is better cause it can actually get close enough to support DDs and give AA support, Graf Spee has better stealth, more hp and armour and a heal and much harder hitting guns, and the Duca D'Aosta is just about one of my favourite ships in the game with it's nimble handling decent armour scheme and good guns. That is my main issue with the line I wanted a line to compliment the Duca cause it was a fun ship and in stead we got a limited gimmick'd line of trash that only really start working at tier 8 and with a special captain to buff the range and reload... Now considering that the Aoba, old Cleveland and Nurnburg were some of the first ships I played in the game and I have gotten better since then, tell me that the Trento is better than ships like the Duca, Huanghe, Perth, Graf Spee, Budyony, Leander, Dallas, La Galissonniere and even the Molatov? And if you still think it is superior, point out actual ship stats rather than a vague feeling that it is better, cause as it is it only is top in turning circle which based on the ship length makes no sense...

It's OP pls nerf!!!! On a serious note it relies on the enemy making mistakes like all other Italian cruisers cause once they angle your damage drops to 0, well at least this thing can counter ships in smoke unlike the Tech-tree ones...

3 battles is not representative, I mean I have a 97% WR in a Minotaur but that only has 12 games... And I think I am playing them as best as possible otherwise I wouldn't be able to achieve this... Would anyone say the Gorizia is OP as hell just from this one fluke of a game... I highly doubt it... Literally every ship in the line I feel like I'm playing a ship at least 1 tier lower than it is and that I could do just the same in any other same tier cruiser with much more ease and be able to actually influence the out come of the match cause you actually have all the cruiser tools... Also back to the Trento can you tell me any ship stat compared to all other cruisers that it isn't the worst (or nearly worst) of the tier at, e.g. Concealment, citadel belt thickness, Citadel size, Reload, Ruddershift, shell velocity or AA?

How to avoid air attacks? WG: JUST DODGE!

Ships become playable at tier 8 but can still be 1 shot even at tier 9 cause 13.6km concealment and the largest citadel known to man that it even has a gravitational pull that actively guides shells into it. The only ship that is comparable to other lines is the tier 10 cause it has armour and the SAP has better pen angles so can do damage more reliably but still crap cause the SAP DPM is on par with other Lines HE DPM and that is without the fires and damage to AA modules, thus it means it is rock bottom when it comes to AP DPM even worse than some BBs. Trento is the worst ship in the game and is bottom in every ship stat of all tier 6 cruisers only the Graf Spee has a slower rudder, has the largest citadel with the same armour as the Molatov, except the Molatov is better at range, more manoeuvrable, better concealment and more utility. Zara is just about playable if people give you broadside and you are not 1 shot. For the Amalfi I went double rudder so I would at least have some chance of not getting citadel'd and the SAP works almost 50% of the time. Brindisi is basically more reliable guns over the Amalfi at the cost of a further 1km worse concealment (also went double rudder on this) Good idea to have an Iowa spot for you as he outspots you by 0.9km... Almost got the Venezia but from what I've seen is it has the double hull like the Duca D'Aosta so much improved survive-ability and the SAP is even more reliable, but still you would do more damage if constantly firing in any other cruiser over time cause 20 sec reload... which is slower than my Republique's reload... Basically the line is a combination of gimmick that don't mash together and end up just making it an absolute chore to do damage and cause they lack any teamplay tools you cannot make plays when you need to unless your Idea of a play is a Yolo charge with the smoke without knowing what your running into...

There fixed it for you

Not sure if it has overmatch considering as others have said it can bounce on DDs... I would guess it does but cause the has all the disadvantages of both ammo types to compensate for the theoretical high alpha which is balanced by the terrible reload to bring the SAP DPM in line with other ships HE DPM basically you will always do more damage with any other cruiser with HE than with SAP simply cause not only do you damage modules like AA with HE it also sets fires and even if you only do 3k max damage a salvo you reload in half the time have more consistent shell characteristics and also set fires... SAP in theory would work well with US cruiser ballistics as then the shells would be coming down almost vertical on the deck, but Italian cruisers have high shell velocity so this tactic doesn't work either above tier 6. Also the SAP only gets somewhat reliable at tier 8 but even then every salvo you are basically praying that the salvo does decent damage, more often than not you end up waiting 17 seconds to reload just to be rewarded with 1.7k damage or less...

And in those situations it can be worth switching to AP as you can citadel those ships with the 203 guns...

I reached that stage on New Years Eve and thought it was so kind of WG to offer me the privilege of buying the Puerto Rico for 35k Doubloons as a New Years gift... needless to say I completely ignored it as it was just WG giving me the middle finger for deciding to no longer spend anything on the game for the foreseeable future...

There is no balance department at WG, they are called the 'Gimmick' Department where they take nice looking ship models that took a lot of time to make and ruin them by slapping hundreds of counterproductive gimmicks on them...

Hurrah for the extra fast shell velocity which is detrimental to the effectiveness of the gimmick ammunition... SAP would be devastating with US Cruiser ballistics...

£0.00 Cause basically everything WG have added to the game this year has either been done poorly or been down right broken and the whole PR thing was just the final nail in the coffin. Only good additions I could think of this year was the reintroduction of the gun bloom reset when breaking line of sight and the clean up of the UI and that's about it...

What low tier free xp ships are you talking about almost all free xp ships are tier 9 with only one being tier 7 unless your definition of low tier is anything that isn't tier 10?

You must hate the entire rest of the player base then...

Even getting that was a challenge they wanted to have the Albocores that the Hermes has as the torp bombers initially...

You need 5 T10 Tech tree ships before it appears in the Armoury... so it now means that you won't be able to start getting Unique Modules for your first T 10 ship until you grind another 4 T10s...