GulvkluderGuld

My first thought when I read about the nerf. WG is hitting the wrong ship with the nerfbat. It is ridiculous how they have not figured out a way to make Midway and Haku equally viable at the highest level (and listen to CV mains as they must be sorely lacking those in the balance department). How about splitting midway DB squads into groups of 3 and double their numbers (maybe -1 to balance for Air Superiority). Not hard in theory, but APM intensive and it requires reflexes especially with 2-3 squads on each side. Failing gets punished extremely hard compared to ships (wipe = losing AS permanently as a result at lower tiers). I think this is one of many reasons that puts average CV players off. I played enough CV games to often make the enemy CV ragequit (and have been tempted myself often aswell). Rangers in particular seem to have this behaviour I'm not arguing against mechanic and skill getting rewarded because frankly, the game is dumb enough already. But WG must find a way to lessen the effect of the skill-gap between potatoes and unicums and also rework CVs to make them less punishing (more attractive to new players). One way I think would suit the player base is to make play less APM dependent and more decision-dependent.

I was sure it was before, but it was actually at the end of S6 The reason I dont remember is how little I used it in the higher ranks - that was all about Blysca outspotting most dds once the IJN ones were killed off. My point still stands though. It was OP, now it is merely one of many strong dds and the king of kiting. Blysca can beat Leningrad if played well as because of the reasons EsaTunaanen wrote. Its a fair fight. Gadjah actually has horrible turret arcs on the front turrets so it sucks at kiting away. Perma-smoke in DD vs DD does not mean much when it has DW torps, as you can always rush and torp it. I'd say a slight ROF nerf would bring it in line. Cossack sounds a little stupid, but so far it is just in ST.

Used it to get Rank 1 in Season 6 and there is nothing wrong with it, you just cant burn down multiple BBs for free anymore. It was OP when introduced, only the later massively nerfed Kiev could fight it. Now it is just one of many good T7 dds that has powercreeped it (Gadjah Mada, Leningrad, Cossack soon can all fight it on even terms) It's strength was always high volley alpha with a correspondingly bad ROF though maybe it could use a slight ROF buff since Leningrad has become the Khaba "light" speedboat on Tier VII. WG should offer a refund though, since they removed the mechanic they specifically advertised the Blysca on

So WG gave Midway back the double TB (we know this was OP already, but apparently WG has the memory of a goldfish) Then WG think nerfing plane tier and adding AP bombs will balance it. Nope. Now telling Midways to be more careful with planes. Since nobody seems to use Midways at the top level, it matter little in competitive modes. I wonder why nobody at the top level use a Midway? And it says interesting things about the incompetence priorities of the (non-existing?) WG balance vodka department. They are clearly nerfing the wrong ship (or perhaps I should say rework, since no amount of small balance changes will change the fact Haku can be in more places than Midway) WG dont care about balance. They care about making their game easy to play without making anything blatantly unbalanced. Personally I think it is time to buy an Orion and sealclub some newbies to show WG my opinion of their priorities.

So you acknowledge it is possible to strike a Montana and get TBs through the AA? I thought you just told me that was Bull$hit Besides it was 2 TB squads

Speaking of tournaments... KoTS, WGP2W semi-final or finals, match on islands of ice, Haku got 2 TBs through Montana AA on the A cap. Not a oneshot but pretty damned massive dmg. Still telling me L2P issue? Unfortunately the RNG rate at which you kill planes is quite large in the game. Sometimes the same ship will shoot down all 6 TB before dropping while in other games, only 2-3 is shot down. My point is CVs can get through pretty much any single ship AA if it is willing to lose most or all strike squads (exempting above mentioned CAs) Of course there are lots of ships and AA to fear since all TX ships can shoot down a few planes if you fly through the aa, but that not my point. EDIT: You are correct, I was quoting base values. For purposes of this discussion it might be relevant to include MAA for other nations than the germans who gets the most out of it. The reason I excluded it is because it is impossible to slot 4 4 point captain perks, so the usual BB builds are CE and Fire Prevention + 1 AA skill which is often AFT. Not sure if people prefer MAA in CW up in typhoon, enlighten me please =) I can kill 10-12 shokaku and Lexi planes in Gearing allright. Dont seem to have the same success with Midway despite the planes being the same tier. I dont remember it having changed much either recently. Also I'm not the target of CVs often, but there are CVs that will target any DD even if you hang out with a Minotaur and there are games where the team mills around aimlessly and you can no longer sit back... We are in agreement on the consequence of excluding CVs being even less diversity. As to the point about spotting, that is the main reason I consider a CV skill imbalance in games to have far more impact than a BB or DD imbalance. The CV spotting can counter dds, torps and keep BBs perma-detected so one good CV can completely shut down several ships simultanously. Now I dont mind that in Competitive modes, but for random battles it is too much and happens too often. It doesnt matter how good any single of a few players are in Random battles, if it is good player in CV vs good player in any other ship (+11 potatoes), the CV will win almost every game.

I take this point back since in practical terms, you are right. What I should have said is that adding more players will make it less likely to see extreme skill differences between 2 players (although it is possible all good players end up on the same team). Sorry but do you even believe what you are writing yourself? You are usually better informed than this. USN, RN and French all have the strongest AA in the midrange 40 mm mounts. IJN has so weak AA on the BBs that for practical purposes they only have 1 aura. Not sure about cruisers since I dont play those. That leaves the germans with powerful long-range aa and the PA dds. Also Cruisers with DFAA active (if they have it) WG killing their own golden goose or introducing Year of the CV 2.0 where CVs are removed from the game, I wonder what it will be? What skills do you have on the Gearing? I've sat in smoke or been hit directly many times by Midway strikes and the absolute highest plane kill count per strike I achieved with DFAA active was 6, more commonly it was 5. That was 2xTB + 1xFighter in and out striking friendly BB next to me or striking myself and I used BFT and sometimes AA flag. it forces me to conclude that either the CV striking you was not tier X or didnt use plane hp perk - or you had way more AA skills or RNG luck than me. Haku planes die a bit more easily than Midway planes, but I still never managed double digit kills. If that was true, why would WG ban CVs from Clan Wars, where the meta is predominantly cruisers? The BB meta is annoying, but everything cannot be blamed on it.

LIke being restricted to one each game for a reason? My only problem with CVs is when there is a massive skill-difference between the two players. Having more CVs on each team would smoothen the effect. Not allowing CVs in divisions would probably do more harm by alienating the CV community, than it would do good. Alone means about > 3 km from nearest ship in this game since long-range AA just shoot a few planes down even with full AA build (those 3 previously mentioned CAs exempted). Good point although I beg to differ with the no-fly zone comment as that depends on what is considered a no-fly zone. 100% no fly zone: DesMo, Hindi and Mino can wipe an entire strike of 5+ squads from the sky without anything getting through 50% no fly zone: Montana, Iowa, Missouri with AFT + flag can wipe 4-6 Midway planes (almost 1 squad) out before dropping. With MAA and BFT the cost goes up, but most planes will get through and about half will or a bit less will return to the CV (if you do seperate strikes for DoTs it will be a different story). Vulnerable targets even with full AA build: Any DD including AA dds (USN+Soviet) and some CA (zao i think?), Any IJN BB. RN/germans dont do too well although I am unsure. CVs do contribute (spotting), but the meta at Tier X has been holding fairly stable at 4-5 BBs and dds since release so CVs should be balanced accordingly (since WG will do nothing to change the meta before Year of the CV (TM)) My gearing with BFT and AA flag can kill 3-5 midway planes during a strike. Dont have a fletcher in port, but the gearing only have about 10% less aa than Fletcher afaik, so i strongly doubt your fletcher can wipe 24+ planes out unless CV parks them overhead for minutes. As to Grozevoi, a proper Midway crossdrop or Haku 3x TB drop will usually land 2 torps due to Grozevoi being long and having the turning circle of a GK and engine of RN cruisers. DFAA dont matter when you can count on the ship being unable to turn or change speed significantly. Sure it costs some planes but it can be done. I'd say a discussion of the meta belongs somewhere else :) It happened to me in my Yamato on Tears of the Cruisers and the Frenchies were tier 8 about 3 and 5 km distant on each side. I did not run AA on my Yamato apart from range module as I already testet full AA Yamato and saw no point in shooting 1 -2 more planes down at the cost of 11 captain points. As to the spawns, yes that is rediculous.

Fact remains, CVs are more powerful than any other ships and likely stronger than 2 other ships. Even WG thinks so since the put a limit on their number. The only thing able to counter a CV is another CV of equal skill and only very few ships give them pause. I completely support WG in banning them from CW untill they figure out a way to balance them (and I have played CVs myself with some succes). Also it is not true CVs just punish the stupid, they can easily punish smart players too if willing to lose a squad or two (and lets remember plane reserves are huge; once upon a time before a well-deserved nerf, Midways actively sacced their squads to launch follow on waves faster). Here is my observations from tier X: The only ships giving CVs pause are DesMos, Hindens and Minotaurs and maybe a group of 3+ Montanas. And if CV really wants a ship dead, that ship is dead whatever it does. 2-3 ship squadrons of Missouris, NCs GKs, DDs, even Moskvas are fair game and one of them can be almost oneshotted using DoTs. Other examples Like a Midway oneshotting a 80% hp Montana 12-15 mins into the game after the lonesome cruisers have died off (if the game even had a cruiser to begin with) Or oneshotting a Grozevoi at the beginning not caring in the least about DFAA Or Haku from the get-go striking Yamato between 2 french BB for a flooding, then setting 3 fires taking said yamato to 20k. It isnt exactly stupid of the Yamato to spawn without any friendly CAs nearby, in fact that is entirely not his fault. Sure CVs arn't gods, but it wouldn't hurt the game to introduce skill-based MM or maybe if that is too hard, cut T X & T IX plane hp in half (or remove the plane hp module) and boosting Xp gains from spotting instead.

Honestly the OP has a point regardless of the quite bad example of a game that is being discussed. It really is no fun for the bad CV players to play against a unicum, nor do they get much of an oppertunity to get better. Now that would be no problem if one good DD, CA or BB player could compensate for the potato CV. Unfortunately no one other player can do that, since CVs have so many more tools than other ships (the reason there is a 1 CV limit at tiers IX and X) Unfortunately it takes a pretty massive amount of skill between the remaining 11 players to carry a potato CV. 1) Good CVs team will always enjoy an early cap advantage. A good cv will pretty much counter any number of enemy DDs since enemy teams DDs regardless of DD player skill will die if they leave AA cover and thus cannot cap. 2) Bad CVs DDs will have to stay back inside AA cover of friendly CAs and thus cannot scout properly 3) Bad CVs BBs and CAs will have to push up further than normal to provide said AA cover, thus risking more damage to their ships, which given the most common skill level in random battles leads to: 4) Most common scenario: random teams with 50%+ potatoes and weekend warriors will huddle in a corner with all dds dead inside 5 minutes Maybe not quite, but he will have 6 kills and Kraken before going down, and the game will strech out 10 minutes longer than normal due to his many kills. If the teams are even remotely in shouting range, the CV unicum will carry to a victory despite the other team having an overall better team...

First this: It is a YueYang radar with the same short duration and range. Second Black is as vulnerable to torpedoes as any other DD. Third a Z52 with 5,8 km range 2 min hydro plus workable torpedoes and fantastic AP is probably a better boat (and OP as [edited]).

Good, we seem to agree that WG contradicts themselves regarding their own rules. Now to the reason I'm here arguing :-) I didnt pick the biking comment completely out of the blue. It is true doping is not endorsed officially, while the mod is, yet we also agree WG endorses the mod while it does not comply with their own rules. It would be akin to an official biking department endorsing EPO despite having clear rules against doping. I see two problems with the current state of affairs, and a third point presents itself. 1) WG wants to turn WoWs into a professional gaming scene (probably unlikely to ever succeed, but that is their declared goal). It is hard to take WG seriously if they allow this level of self-contradiction. Now I would not mind X-mod being implemented in the game, since there is nothing "cheating" about having a reticle on the minimap displaying vertical lead in addition to mark 1 eyeballing the binocular view. 2) Seal-clubbers or players like me who like to win could use the mod to spank newbies and weekend warriors hiding in smokescreens, leading to complaints in chat and here about "cheaters" and "aimbots". And they would be entirely correct. Probably not enough for large enough numbers to leave the game, but it would contribute to a feeling of cheats being in the game when one gets shot despite being undetected. 3) Where we probably disagree is that I think the X-mod IS over the line in competitive modes (in ranked and CW games) since it has huge impact if you can reset a DD or not (but by your argument: if everyone runs the mod, it just a different meta from random battles where you as a dd has to assume resets will happen due to the mod and take measures to avoid it). Cheers

I understand if your argument is that ince the impact is neglegible and since the mod is available to all, everyone can just dl it and it is "fair". For casal gaming as you describe below, I might even agree with you since I didn't bother dl the mod myself. But it still is against WG's own wording. WG made a set of rules and dont follow them themselves. It is akin to turning a blind eye to doping in sports based on how much of a performance boost is gained. Even if it IS against the rules, I guess all professional bikers have a doctor supplying them with EPO, so we can just call that fair too and ignore it right? (might be i'm unfair to professional bikers and they dont all do doping, that is not the point, please take it in the spirit of this argument) WG could just add X-mod to the game client, then they would be in line with their own policy again. Or they could ban it, thus complying with their own wording Or they could change the wording. Try pushing a cap with a dd in it that ýou can kill, watch the dd smoke up and proceed to kill it anyway by aiming using this mod. If minimap size is as issue for you, enlarge it (or get one of the mods to enlarge it further). Quite the useful mod for RN cruiser play and dd gunboat play.

Fair enough; if you adopt that definition then awful do not apply to any ship in the game. For me I use it for ships I dread playing, things like T22, Pensacola (old pre-buffs one), New Orleans, Izumo and Kirov. None of those were/are unplayble, but carrying was next to impossible (not izumo, but I never got along with its guns)

As I posted previously in this thread, anyone who didnt use the mod should try it before posting uninformed opinions. The mod is relevant in EVERY game as it can be used in EVERY game to reset smoked up DDs in caps and shave additional hp off them. It shows if shells will hit an island or not before reaching the target. I tried it 10 games and gained significant advantages in about half of them, it improved my aim into smokes by orders of magnitude and it allows ships without spotted plane to hit shells on smoked targets with much higher reliability. It is a moderately powerful aim-assist however anyone dresses it up and contrary to many cosmetic mods it provides something that is not in the game: instantly accessible vertical lead and distance to last known enemy positions. That is information unobtainable from the minimap in Vanilla client.

New York was awful at game launch and it has only been powercreeped since. The only good thing about US BBs is they teach you good positioning like no other BB in the game (in the center, but still reasonably safe and able to disengage). Tier 8 to 10 are awesome though.

Play Khaba, 100k dmg average not impossible In other dds, I tend to fight dds too much and early, but tend to take them down (or have my team do the dirty work) so I only average 55k in gearing overall and around 70k in the last 90-100 TX dd games. Got my emblem without ever playing for it. It should be %hp dealt, not total hp, but that is my gripe with all WG damage stats...

St. Louis was as bad then as it is now. Jingles is fun but often speaks wrong or outdated information and has a childish delight for anything with lots and lots of guns. But just guns do not make Kolberg og St. Louis good ships. Horribly slow and easy to kite & it can only bring a fraction of the guns to bear. It's only selling point is it used to be tough, but has been powercreeped. The newer BB lines can actually hit whatever they aim at (Nassau, Orion, probably French too). SC and Kawachi are lucky to land one shell beyond 3 km range. The newer dds (V25 in particular) can just rush and oneshot it, others get DW torps with OP concealment. Also the high point of the US cruiser line has been powercreeped (Omaha used to be a GOD on tier 5) Cleveland is decent, but other than DesMo on T-X i see no reason to play the line except farming xp and credits with the coming split. Better play russians or germans or even french CAs.

Fair enough - Thanks for explaining. Would suggest you try using it; we really disagree on the impact It has. 1. Although I do not use mods, so what other mods you refer to is beyond me. Whatever has caused this improvement in aiming has made a very noticable difference to my game experience. I can reproduce what is being done to me using the mod. Trying it, just 10 games and I have gotten kills and resets on DDs that I would never have gotten before, and shots on unspotted ships >8 km away in Cyclone. 2. Have only followed page one, the opening argument seems reasonable enough, but I that is online communities.

X marks the spot clearly gives an aim advantage, and a fairly large one. Had been wondering how people were suddenly much more able to land shells in my smoke for the last naybe 6 months (as DD, not shooting) Then I heard of the mod and tried it. Landing shells on smoked up dds, cas BBs, something that is hard to do without spotted plane, is suddenly SUPER easy and consistent. It even shows when shells will impact the landscape instead of going over islands. Last of all it is possible to hit smoked targets EVEN WHEN THEY DO NOT SHOOT. As a player with 8k games and decent aim/winrate it improved my aiming by several orders of magnitude. I will happily keep using it until WG bans it, but way over the line compared to Vanilla client. Nechrom why do you keep arguing? Did you not try it or are you affraid to lose your tool? That mod is stupidly OP unless you are already a Unicum or a newbie so new you cant take advantage. - New players (and veterans) with this mod can consistently do things they cannot do without - Ships without spotted planes are suddenly able to do the most of the things spotter planes do (it is quite easy to compensate for horisontal movement using X-mark, so even tagets moving in smoke can be hit) - it lets you lob shells over islands using the X showing if the shells hit the islands or not.

High level DD play is centred around concealment, and IJN dds have the best concealment in the game. What makes them hard to play is they rely on competent backup, which is a rare thing in random battles (outside divisions). You are playing IJN boats wrong if you try to pick a fight with the enemy dds. You fight gunboats by spotting them for the ships behind you - it is death by 1000 cuts! If you want to improve and understand IJN dd play, see how youtubers use them in ranked and CW games or try it yourself a) Play ranked, reach rank 1, see what DDs are played in the top bracket and HOW they are played. I'll help you out (as you can see, IJN dds are very viable in a gamemode centred around capping) Season 8: Lo Yang, Akizuki, kagerou, Benson Season 7: Shinonome, Anshan, Farragut (I saw hatsus and Mutsus work, but they are the turds of the line) Season 6: Shiratsuyu, Blyscawica, Leningrad, Sims (I saw Mahans, but it suck balls) b) Your argument would be sound if playing the Asashino. Since we are not talking about DW torps that can only hit BBs, you just contradicted your own argument. If your torpedoes can hit all classes and you only go for BBs, then you do not get the full potential our of the ship. Also you suffer from the misconception that torpedoes are all the weapons an IJN destroyer carry while missing the most deadly weapon of them all (hint, see above A) You have much to learn, young Padawan!

Yup agree on that. It was probably the best chance of getting a cap in that game. Still, I like IJN dds around B for spotting on this map, assuming the team is decent and able to take advantage.

That depends on the level of ambition. Flamu does not advocate creating new flags for all achievements, only make the rewards visible in-game. - Make the game show spotting damage and potential damage, possibly make rewards for a threshold. If ambitous: - make a medal 3rd class, 2nd. class, 1st class, Master and award from 1-10 flags for this. The calculation is already in-game Other ideas:. - rewards for contesting/blocking caps (to both teams ship) same as above for 1 min up to X min - Rewards for radaring or hydro spotting ships grants 2-3x spotting damage done to them and a medal like above, awarded ingame with a notification what the next breakpoint is. - rework Dreadnaught and Fireproof; make them graded rewards as above, make dreadnought depend on potential damage and bouncing damage/dodging torpedoes. To the crying HE BBQ players that cry over not having radar: perhaps they dont, but they do on average more damage than radar ships. At the moment, radar ships does a lot of unrewarded work, so in other words, the rewards must suit the ship's playstyle

As has been said, many counters have been introduced to DDs since release, making DD play at tier 8+ hard. Reasons include: - Balanced BB AP (TM) + - BBabies have discovered they can actually HIT dds at 10+ km (they didnt even try to shoot dds a year or two ago). - Lots things that spot DDs have been introduced and there is plenty in each game: CVs, Radar, Z52 hydro, Lo Yang hydro and RN cruisers to mention a few. They all have fairly long range too. - DDs have low hp pools and teams focus them REALLY hard compared to a year or two ago. - if you miss even one of the threats on enemy team, you die. To succeed as a dd, you must plan any approach to a place where enemy DDs might be so that you know - No radar ships unaccounted for, none in range (or there is a fat island covering you) or radar already used (and not yet ready again). - No CV or red CV planes busy on the other side of the map; also no CAs with fighter planes nearby - No Z52, Lo Yang, german dds or BBs with hydro in spotting range or able to close to spotting range. - How many DDs are unaccounted for? Can they outspot my DD and by how much, and can I fight them 1v1? - How much backup is available for either team? Which backup is closest (backup from the spawn does no good)? It is usually the backup that decides DD fights and this judgement comes down to experience. - If there is a DD I can fight, can it be approached from a position where all or most red backup guns are blocked by an island? - Is smoke /speed boost /torps ready if it becomes necessary to disengage prematurely? If all above checks out, it is possible to approach the cap with a good chance of not dying, but it may still cost 95% of hp. Is it any wonder dd noobs and newbies get slaughtered and you probably see them in a big phat BB kemping border in the next match? What I see is the Red team BBs and CAs are completely out of position. Typical camper team where you can tell by minute 2 the game is lost beyond all recovery, even a Unicum DD player couldnt carry this crop of weekend clowns (pardon me being harsh). Compare the two teams: Green dds have support, red dds did not. Reason: red team is failing to support any capping activities, preferring to go hunting for Space Vikings in the corner and not get their pretty paint scratched. The red dds position were fine if their team actually wanted to play WoWs. As a pretty decent DD player I would consider this team beyond carrying and just farm whatever damage and caps I could.

It is way to grindy to be worth it. Will never play french BB anyway and it is only a camo reward at the end, so not worth the effort. I have the T6 BB from containers and Galasoniere from the new year event and both kinda suck playing. Did stage 1, but stage 2 will take literally forever, even farming 300 hits/game in the Neptune/Khaba.