GulvkluderGuld

New trap is horrible. At least in the old iteration both teams had even chances in the clusterfuck on A. some say it is the playerbase, but players will always be and always have been 80% potatoes. Maps should be designed to cope with this without one side having the advantage. And in the case of new Trap, this is a problem. tbh OK had a pretty brave team. most teams i meet huddle in B6-B8 afraid to poke their head into C. The issue is exacerbated by the radar plague as the island South of C is very accessible to a radar cruiser and thus almost always have one behind it. DDs cant go in as in old trap because of perma-radar, so to dislodge it, the BB pussies have to push and risk their pretty paintjob getting scratched. In effect, the C cap bogs down any attackers just like the A cap of old. The only games I won from north Trap is by coming back from a massive point deficit after all team camps on B8 and pushing South, retaking the map from there.

On the 2nd or 3rd stage, dont actually remember (or care all that much). Missions apart from the 1 star (and some 2 star) ones are way to restrictive, forcing one to play USN ships. Also apart from the national requirement, they are quite hard!

As someone pointed out to me yesterday...Summer holidays have started?

We deal with 2 types of situations 1. unforeseen real life things occasionally happens that require you to leave the keyboard (phone rings) 2. intentional repeated griefing which may or may not be what your DD did (maybe you were unlucky enough he had irl situations to deal with in both cases, although him not being really afk and makes that unlikely) regarding 1: irl > game. It shouldn't happen often anyway and certainly should not be punished. regarding 2: this should be punished. Anyway it is just random battles, not a competitive mode (CW or ranked) so I personally have a pretty big tolerance for crap (just look at the missions WG throws our way)

How about no.

The real problem is you insist on misinterpreting this discussion. Assume the BB lost 99% hp and dealt 1k damage, he still got more out of it than the dd. The real problem is the game, not the players playing it. And why is that a problem of the players and not the game? The game gives them zero reward for playing that way. That isn't the players fault.

Fixed it for you

And why is that a problem of the players and not the game? The game gives them zero reward for playing that way. That isn't the players fault. A good game rewards good play and punishes bad play. The only activity this game rewards is damage and capping. (spotting = neglectible amount) To take your argument, if a situation demands you to spot for 10 mins and get zero xp and credits doing it, you work for free. In the same timespan you could be doing 100k dmg in a BB, earning a lot of XP and credits. For your argument to be true, the game should encourage and reward both activities equally. To reach that point, the game should encourage spotting by displaying clearly how much Xp and credits it awards. Also it is likely that current rewards for dds should be adjusted so spotting earns more xp and doing damage, less.

Aye, and I agree with that. The first part was comparing it to BBs though. And BBs still has a way to earn XP from long range. DDs do not earn much from spotting, so there is nothing encouraging the kind of sensible gameplay behavior you talked about.

If you read my post, you would know I was specifically NOT talking about damage...rather, spotting damage. Try reading it again. Also I do quite well in my dds and I played rather more dd games today than you did (6 radar ships each team makes 100k+ games rarer though) Which is why Spotting damage needs to reap better rewards for dds.

Just remove all islands. Ocean every map please and enjoy the Cleveland plague die out fast. Seriously: we need smaller maps and less islands, not the reverse.

It is amazing how everything you say is still wrong despite the advice being true. BBs can get XP by doing damage. DDs in this situation, how can they earn XP? If spotting ACTUALLY netted any decent XP I would tend to agree with your argument. Since it does not....WG Y U SO STOPID

Dont need to imagine that, it was once the meta!

What happened is 1. Smoke was meant as a defensive tool to disengage from a fight 2. Smoke was used to daka-daka instead = the smoke meta 3. Radar was introduced as a counter to the smoke daka-daka 4. Smoke was later changed so shooting from inside smoke increased detection range (basically what should have been the solution to #2) 5. Radar still in the game despite smoke having been reworked 6. MORE radar added now for apparently no gameplay related reasons 7. Smoke not usable anymore for its original defensice purpose due to an overabundance of radar. Basically we have come full circle, from smoke having additional aggressive usage to now being mostly useless even defensively. 8. WG should add TRB instead of smoke or simply remove radar and boost the penalty for firing into smoke to be = maybe 2 km stealthfire range at max range.

this.

Cyclones are too common, almost one game in five.

Personally i NEVER go on the 7-10 line on this map in a DD after the latest patch. NEVER (I would if there was a game without enemy radars...guess what, that has not happened so far) How did the Gearing get so far without the green ships moving to support him? Seems some of those other 7 ships deserve some reporting too.

Only had it happen once, but the threshold was low. This happened back in the days when mirrored CV MM was a new thing :) Tried strafing a full enemy fighter squad locked in click-fight with my friendly CV's fighter squad. I dont remember nations, but I strafed because the enemy squad had more planes left in it. Bang. Pink from killing at maximum 5 planes. That was the only friendly planes i killed, and I had never been pink before in several 1000 games. Never TK'ed friendly squads since, so I wouldnt know how it is now. Guess it probably got changed then.

I'm not missing the point, you were the one talking about fighting on equal terms which I took as a tactical discussion of the engagement. I must admit i lack experience at the higher leagues although I'm familiar with the theory. That theory is why I ended my post suggesting the Grozevoi will be the new top pick. YY is also nice, but ultimately other ships can have a radar. Grozevoi will be the only DD with heal and like the Kidd play more consistently since it can recover hp after big chunks. And ultimately dds WILL take damage sometimes from trying to cap (if not radar, blindshots may do the job). Also from trades, but the damage rarely comes out of any DD guns, we agree :) My main worry for the Grozevoi is it will get oneshot instead of just chunked, especially coupled with bad rudder shift/turning circle. It cannot juggle the throttle like USN and PA dds (it lacks the engine power). Slowing takes forever (more time before smoke covers it, more likely to drift into torpedoes, more time to change from reverse/forward) = more time to eat AP and HE if radared or spotted. As to the tactics, I will just say Gearing or YY dont need to smoke. Just stop shooting at 5,7 km and show the Groze a pair of heels. It would surprise me if the Groze dont take more damage in those 20s assuming equal support due to sheer size. With RPF on DDs I doubt any enemy DDs will get caught without some decent support of their own or an island blocking out enemy support. Pushing an enemy DD is often a game-defining high risk play.

Kiting is pretty obvious anyway in DD fights, especially with a heal. USN dds will likely get a favorable initial trade since it has 4 forward facing guns and Groze only 2 rear facing guns.... when Groze tries to kite, USN dds simply disengage, so getting to 7,5 km will be no use because the other DD will be undetected (unless radared). In the end it could be a fairly even trade Its even possible to throw torps in the likely disengage path before opening up. There is a big chance Groze wil not be able to slow and dodge. In the end I expect Grozevoi to win once it gets the heal. It will probably be the better pick for competitive with smoke + heal because of the sustain

The heal will likely make a difference, although one has to escape alive first, which can be hard for the clunky Grozevoi once the AP starts to fly. "Letting" USN dd guns get too close is impossible since they have superior concealment, there is nothing "letting" about it unless the USN dd in question is already spotted.

The game is about to come full circle. The Smoke pewpew camping meta has died. All hail the Radar meta. WGs direction for this game was always stupid and getting stupider (RPF was so far the lowest point), but I'm starting to even lose my respect for the dev team. Just glad I recently unlocked the YueYang in addition to my Gearing and Chung Mu. Time to spot only from open water (basically doing that already) Time to test out long-range blindtorping with DW torps and full reload build. I already adapted my DD play a lot. I never EVER enter B or C cap on North anymore and likewise for land of Fire C cap. It already caused a lot of screaming on my teams, mostly by potatoes who wants me to "go and spot" while they camp behind islands with their radars. Often times this happens in an island rich environment at a cap where both teams radar CAs routinely go. Time to kiss my 80+ karma goodbye to keep my winrate alive. Completely agree. Ocean 100% of the time. Imagine the Pandemonium from CA players..... Imagine a game a year from now: All ships with concealment below 10,4 km has their concealment reworked to 10,4 km. All DDs exchanges smoke for torp reload booster and Asashio torps. Cruisers are armed with 380 mm guns with cruiser dispersion and get 50 mm bow plating and radar. BBs get 10 km Radar and and zombie heal. Since everyone has a use for RPF, the skill is implemented free for everyone, just like Situational awareness. CVs still have clunky UI.

That moment when the game surprisingly ends. (me in Yorck millimeters from enemy Atlanta)

It Might've been that last couple sentences that did it. Sorry :) I dont have the Hindi yet, but after some thousands of games and watching Kots finals, one has enough experience with the game to form a pretty accurate idea of its capabilities. Comfort is important in competitive games, but most players will be comfortable with multiple ships. My opinion based on observations in 7 ranked seasons and lots of tier X games plus some few CW battles is this: The single one most important factor for ranking up is: Consistency. It doesn't matter if one is a unicum player if the ship blows up half the time (imagine playing old Pensacola in ranked). And if you can't cap or do damage, this is just as bad (map reliant cruisers, DD vs radar). The Hindi brings consistent damage with its 1/4 HE pen. It survives consistently thanks to its turtleback armor. Only BBs and DesMo AP can realistically delete it when it gives broadside. Other strengths is versatility (it does good damage to BBs both longrange and short range)

So you say the Hindi is the most exploited ship in clan wars but not the best. The corollary to what you say is literally either that you know better than all the clans, or that playing the best ship don't matter in competitive, only playing a ship you like I guess there is no reason to discuss further. Promise me to never ask yourself any critical question, like what makes so many people like a ship. (hint: dasCKD made an excellent post on why) I liked the original Kiev very much for instance. I also like the Belfast. Maybe they are built in a way that only the very good players will get the best out of them. Maybe. Or so I've heard.