GulvkluderGuld

Interesting that you find it so. I just got the C hull and have not faced heavy aa opposition yet, but my impression of the B hull is you are lucky to shoot more than 1-2 planes down. As for range, I would say that depends on your experience with the New York. I can reliably hit a targets out to 15-16 km, and I often do 2-4k dmg with a broadside (1-3 shell hits of 12), so I wouldn't live without it. Finally sometimes I find it dangerous to get all the way to 14 km. Again, depends on your style. I played all classes to ter 6+, although I got frustrated with CVs at tier 6 (the cliff tier). It also lets you shoot back at those pesky Fusos and Clevelands (with advanced firing training).

I'd recommend range and rudder shift time asap. You might also consider: -On the NM C hull you get a spotter aircraft, which adds another 20% to your range, boosting it to about 20 kms with the 16% upgrade. The duration is very short though (1 min, 5 mins cd). -The NM has no AA to speak of until the C hull. -anecdotal evidence, presented below ;) Had a game a few days ago on Two Brothers in my New Mexico - The "domination mode" version with only 2 caps, located where standard battles have bases. Close to the end, I were left defending the cap & carrier from an Omaha, a New Mexico and a Wyoming, all on pretty much full HP and 14-16 kms away. I was sailing away, shooting over the shoulder, with about 4k HP left. The score was pretty even (950ish to 850ish). The omaha caught up, and took me to 3-400 hp before i killed him. The other ships didn't get closer than 14ish km before we won. I couldn't understand why the opposing NM wasn't firing at me. If he could kill me, they would probably win (about 140 cap points from killing a BB and a CV). Turns out he didnt have the range upgrade, and so he was just barely out of range

Impressions? Do anyone enjoy this map? Just had it twice so far, so I'm not prepared to judge yet. However both games were over in ~5 mins and crushing defeats to my team. My impression is that one team wins by rushing the cap, and thereafter nobody can get in range to shoot without getting overwhelmed (due to lack of cover and flanking options). Seems very boring.

Let me help with your digging. Today I saw a Nagato and Pensacola running terrified away from a Mutsuki on Two Brothers. There was literally nothing else on that side (I was engaging on the other). 2 mins later the DD goes for the CV, and Nagato and Pensa are both huging the north map border 15 km away from the DD. WTF???? In the end I went back in my New Mexico to kill the little bugger. Despite 90k dmg, It was a loss, ofc.... Strait is by far my most hated map already.

what WHAT? You all post like you assume people in Ranked battles will play better together then pick up groups. My experience from LOL and other games does...not support this argument. :S

Yep, they do. On the other hand, they dont need to be better. DD vs DD encounters take place at roughly 5-6 kms or less. If you use them at longer range, its usually for peppering BBs with HE. And the big boys arnt exactly know for their lightning ability to dodge.

With 4.1 and ranked battles hitting the live server (in 14 days), I just had one very disturbing thought. DDs mainly complain they dont get Xp and credits for the influence they exert on the game right? What if the only reward you care about are stars (ranked battles). IMO if dds turn out to be useful in rankeds (biiiiiig IF here, yeah), then part of the problem may already be solved, since only stars will matter. Of course, playing dds are still going to be boring as hell...but hey, if it earns you stars...

Possibly a stupid question, but....do you get xp / credits as per normal games? Or does only winning count (towards earning stars)? Also,USN destroyers are useless at anything other than shooting IJN DDs. Yes they can cap, but skirmish? Really? Whenever USN dds are spottet by a cruiser, it tends to, well, die. I would expect IJN dds to be far superior the USN counterparts for zone control and spotting. My line up? New Mexico (best ship in the game for Cruiser-clubbing and general aggressive play imo) Cleveland rather than Pensacola i think - its better for DD killing and solo skirmishes. Pensa is more of an escort ship. DDs? Gonna try the Farragut, but, imo I not expecting any great results....

So we just have to stop playing DDs. Cruisers are the best dds. Play cruisers, untill WG figures out how to reward DD play with actual xp and credits (since they dont listen to us) ;)

Conceptually and in theory I agree completely. Have you seen the planned 4.1 changes to it though?

Good idea. Quite a lot of ideas has been suggested in other threads though.. Here's the best of them from my content history. http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/28288-dds-beyond-t6-and-fun/page__p__499523#entry499523 - Suggestions for tier 6+ DDs, particularly the reload time and detection distance of torpedoes http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/27690-dds-up/page__p__503859#entry503859 - Suggestions for torpedo detection time and also reducing DD detection range from the air (to deal with planes). Somewhere it was also suggested to make carrier plane groups unable to spot torpedoes.

Destroyers peak at tier 5. Finally reached the XP to unlock the Mahan, but I've decided not play DDs anymore untill WG does something major for the higher tier DDs. 4.1 changes are NOT enough, as the actual changes will not increase XP or Credits earned. Let the stats prove that cruisers (kitakami, i'm looking at you) are the best DDs in town.

have on of my +1 for the day. OP also has one of my +1 for putting what many of us think, into words. (and daring the trolls -see above comment - on this forum to do their worst). Here's one for the stats-trolls: OP is according to his stats, a perfectly average player. He kills exactly as much as dies, and he wins as much as he loses. WG makes money on the average players (not the top 1% with crazy winrates) and wants those players to play DDs too, because otherwise the stats (see what i allude to here?) will prove they are terrible. For that matter, if you want to be a [edited] about it, there are players with good winrates who say DDs suck. So please ignore the thread, troll, while the rest of us get on with it ;)

Totally understand your feelings man. This sudden jump in aa capabilities from the Bogue took me by surprise too. The main problem for me is that even isolated BBs are impossible to torpedo, due to losing 4+ planes before they make it to the drop distance (example, vs an Amagi). Multisquadron drops becomes the obvious answer, but I gave up and switched to BBs before really trying it! Adding insult to injury, the Independence hanger space is a joke, so one error effectively renders you useless (due to only 2-4 reserve torp planes).

Glad to hear fellow captains finding AP useful against tirpitzes and also able to start fires. What ranges are you using AP at with your Pensacola?I guess its plunging fire? Also do you aim anywhere particular? AFAIK Tirpitz is hardest to kill when it gets close, where it can use it's belt armor. Thus I tend to stay at max range and pepper her, but aiming for weak spots get kinda hard at 15k Nevercalled3, on 01 September 2015 - 08:30 PM, said: link is dead. proper one: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration_%28WoWS%29 Thanks and sorry. Just copied it from the browser so Idk why it doesnt work.

My experience with the pensacola matches the OP. It's rediculously hard to set Tirpitzes on fire or damage with HE. You stand a better chance of killing it by ramming! And that (along with the risk of friendly torpedoes skyrocketing) is why i presently have taken a break from playing tier 7+. The Wargaming wiki shows linear trends between base and maximum dispersion for USN and IJN BBs. EDIT forgot link: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration_(WoWS) Of course, that doesnt have to mean it's linear all the way (in fact with 4.1 it seems 4 km will be a breakpoint).

Maybe I dont get your point but.... The OP argued that higher tier ships are worse and less fun compared to lower tier ships. Unless you disagree or i misunderstood, your logic makes even less sense than the current situation. Why afterall, would anyone PAY for a downgrade, when they dont even want it for free? Surely it is much easier to simply abandon the DD line or the game entirely? Why grind to higher tiers? I am quite happy with tier 5. Only BBs seems to grow more fun at higher tiers so far. EDIT: Only reason I can imagine for the current state of DDs, is that WG caters to Newbie BB drivers and those are weak to DD players. So WG makes sure DD suck and earn on the BBs what they lose on DDs. Only, if that IS the logic, they should have nerfed fire damage, and they have not (at least on USN ships).

Got this advice a few days ago in (another) DDs UP thread while talking tier 6+. Stop playing DDs untill WG does something about it. It's the only way to get their attention. So I did. 5000 Xp away from the Mahan. Now passing on said advice. Recently started playing BB and got myself a New York and already doing 40-80k dmg every game. Unless WG does smth, this will soon be World of BBs and CVs.

Gonna stop playing DDs at least untill 4.1. Depending on the changes might take them up again. Meanwhile, working on my BB and CV line, since that seems to be what WG wants us to. 2 High Caliber in one day so far on BBs!

Believe me, I'm very, very close to do just that....its rediculous. Sry for venting a bit, but take a look at this MM. What are my DD supposed to hunt here? Yes. That nailed it. Also, you might wonder what exactly DDs do that cruisers don't do better (excluding capping domination points, which CV planes can't do). Userext, on 31 August 2015 - 11:30 AM, said: The only problem is that the reaction time chart should be upside down

Nearly got torped by a Tirpitz today on Two Brothers. Target was a DD 8 km away. Next game a Tirpitz went into a 2-3 km torpedo-dogfight with a DD. Surprisingly, he died.

Long CV vs DD argument discussion. I'd like to ask you DD captains a question. Has any of you (ever) gotten High Caliber in a DD? Particularly, a USN DD? Do you think DDs stand a lower chance than BBs or CV/Cruisers at influencing the game? I finally got fed up with the uselessness of USN DDs (currently tier 6) and started on US BBs a few days ago. After some getting used to BB shell flight time, I have no trouble whatsoever killing DDs up to ~10 km range. Got 2x High Caliber awards yesterday alone. Carried a couple games. That would be impossible in a DD. I don't understand the BB Torpedo QQ threads at all (except for newbies). Minekaze and Isokaze is borderline OP due to low detectability that lets them perform insane Banzai torpedo runs, but they get nerfed next patch. Remaining DDs are meh at best (high detection and reload on torps). My experience is this: At tier V, BBs can counter almost any class in the game (save CV cuz he is too fast to catch xD). At tier VI, DDs can counter other DDs. Cruisers and BBs who know what they are doing will kill any spotted DD. CV (IJN) can kill DDs with cross torps. DDs counter other ships only by area denial, and I've become quite good at this, increasin my win % from 45 to 54 on Farragut.But! It gives no experience or credits!!!!! It only wins games....But here's the catch: Why would I want to win, when I get no reward for it? I mean, 1,5 times (next to) 0 XP and Credits? Really? You will earn more Xp and credits by doing a suicide torpedo attack and losing! WG please. Read the excellent suggestions on how to make DDs more viable!!!

+1

This. Except i pretty much always shoot AP if i have a broadside to shoot. If he is bow/stern on, HE is better (unless you're a BB or pensacola).