Kiwi1960

Then why have the Salem? And half the other copies of other ships? She was a Leander class, yes, but as I said, her claim to REAL fame among sailors was her higher rate of fire... the barrels got so hot during the battle of the River Plate that they had to bash them with hammers to release the recoil springs... so a Leander called Achilles with a higher rate of fire makes her worthy to be Premium... unlike the Genova, Gorizia.... hell... even the Perth... or that latest Brit CV which really has NO claim to being premium... And don;t get me started on the FAKE paper ships.... where is their claim to fame??????

There are many Aussie ships that can be used, and not so many Kiwi ships, its always been a small navy. India wasn't independent till 1947, besides, one of her ships was the former Achilles which we sold them ... South Africa ... in 1945, she had 78 ships, mostly trawlers... sadly. Your last line, I'm trying to find a better way of saying all I did previously... but IMHO, WoWs is only calling her "famous" to justify her being made premium... she wasn't THAT famous and certainly not famous enough to be made premium in the game... she is a pig to fight with, and no torps... but yet, they NEEDED to justify her being premium and that is her ONLY real claim to fame. Other than that, sure, why not, all other axis nations are represented.

First two words you used... "In Italy" .... well, in New Zealand, HMNZS Achilles is famous not only in New Zealand, but EVERYWHERE as one of the heroes of the Battle of the river Plate... which caused the Graf Spee to be scuttled. It fired a higher rate of fire than any other ship involved in that battle because.... Kiwi's.... Kiwi's gunna be Kiwi's... but is it in the game? No... promises were made years ago to look into it... but no... we get the Italian ships... famous in Italy... and on the wrong side... and now... immortalised by WoWs for all the wrong reasons, namely, greed. Yeah.... I'm not buying it that she is famous. not world wide fame...

Wargaming do NOT care about this community... in so doing, they also do not DESERVE it. How on the heals of the Pay-To Rico SCAM which implicated an Italian Premium ship, the Gorizia, which is a CRAP ship... hardly worth premium status EXCEPT they want you to buy it to get the Pay-To Rico... And now this.... "MASSIVE discount on premium".... says it all really, your chickens have come home to roost. Hurting for money are you, WG, wow... I wonder why.... (he says sarcastically".... The EURL guy may as well have said... "Here is our middle finger... we have nothing but comtempt for you so buy our stuff cos we love money".... Simply put.... NO! This is just like all the other apologies and scandals WG has pulled.... say sorry (but don't mean it" then lay low till the heat dies off, IGNORE all the posts criticising the complainants .... and just off a new deal because if its cheap enough, you can break the will of the resisters not to give you any more money.... they timing is incredible.... a money grab that back fired, and now begging for money... How about an apology, a REAL one along with a REAL promise not to do it again and a promise to treat your players with respect. Y'know.... when the stats come out for the Payto-Rico event.... if too many paid for the Pay-To Rico then the excrement will really hit the fan.... or if hardly ANYONE paid for it... then the ones who want a decent company will be overjoyed to find their resistance tactics are working. That... and how many players have STOPPED buying Premium time... and how many are still playing the game compared to this time one, two and three months ago. We know the recruitment drive is failing.... no one wants to refer friends and lose them when they get ripped off..... The ball is in your court, stop showing contempt for the community and give those apologies and reassurances. OH.... and stop trying to pass off crappy worthless second rate Italian cruisers as premium... they are hardly that, nothing special with long load times.... Proof that they are hitting the bottom of the barrel... anything for a quick buck, right? BTW..... Eurl-guy says the Gorizia is a "famous" ship.... in what way? WHERE is it famous? To be honest, I served in the Navy and had a long time interest in Naval history.... the Gorizia may be famous in Italy... and in the minds of WG staff, but nowhere else is it even remotely known.... let alone famous.

well, I have the same ping here in Holland as I got in New Zealand ... 140 .... but on the NA server, here in Holland, I'm getting about 104.

The internet is our region is getting close to overloaded, 9 months ago, I was told its 95% of capacity.... probably full by now, which means a slowdown. They are adding more fibre but not sure when that will kick in. I'm in Holland.

Yes. They were. Retailers use a bait and catch system, promising the customers its "entirely possible" to obtain the PR for free, then making the grind so impossible that so far, that we know of, only two or three people managed to do it... but what they didn't say was, this wouldn't be like the test server, the costs would be greater... the first booster cost 100 on the test server, 6000 on the real server, they NEVER corrected the CC's when they were used by WG to mislead the people and that is why THEY are mostly angry... then when the crap hits the fan... they changed some posts so "entirely possible" became "possible" ... they issued a lame excuse that it was only meant to be for the disabled and unemployed because... as we all know... these people have no lives nor families (I say sarcastically) over the holidays, locked away in their tiny one bedroom bedsit... and then coming out with an apology which is worthless, because they refused to fix their greedy cash grab... The grind was near impossible... but then the clever ones figured out that even IF you could grind it, most won't get it entirely for free... if you started really late, $250 ... slightly less maybe if you bought a booster.... what they didn't say that if you are so near getting the ship ....on the last day... if you don't make it, you LOSE it all... all the money you sunk into getting the ship... its a form of gambling... but worse, this is a known tactic in commerce, you work SO hard to get the prize and you grind and grind... that you are nearly in tears about losing that much money and/or time... so you buy it.... I never wanted the Pay-to Rico.... its an inferior Alaska... its another time where WoWs uses HYPE to make a ship seem popular... the Alaska is a good example... the PEF, the Cossack.... all the others... I did grind the Gorizia and got her for free. she is nothing special... but they were selling her with easier missions as a way to complete the directives for the PR, so everyone paid good money for a ship which was premium, but no REASON for it being premium... its was a ship sold on the back of the PR hype.... Some people here cannot understand why we are angry... its NOT the ship... hell, The Smolensk is better for T10 and the J.B. for T9... I have them... why would I want to use a Pay-To Rico which is just a copy of another ship with minor changes? Why would anyone want to own her when the anger is such that you're going to be the target everyone wants to kill? By all means, use the Pay-To Rico ... if you're on my team, I'll just stay away from you and survive the game while the PR doesn't. We are angry because WG is pulling this crap all the time, every time a worthless apology... they KNEW that CV's being "balanced" on the live server would create massive problems, but they didn't care, a CV came out, it was OP, they sold a few... then the balancing kicked in and now... CV's are not that popular.... the most recent one, A Brit CV named Indomitable is a complete waste of time.... watch the CC videos... So its getting to the point were WoWs is releasing SUBSTANDARD ships like the Gorizia, Genoa, Pay-To Rico, Indomitable as PREMIUM ships when they are totally UNWORTHY of the title. They sold the T9 Jean Bart for both money and coal... SHE was a damned good buy, a ship WORTH the title of premium.... and this is happening more and more.... people buying.... pixels .... based on WoWs HYPE.... then when they find out the ship is no good and no refund is going to be given.... either stop playing... or stop buying from WG. Either way, that is not good for the company. They are trying to get at least the basic running costs for the company, wages, salaries, rent etc etc etc from a pool of fewer and fewer people.... and the ones who KNOW what is happening will hardly invite friends to play... and this is why the Pay-To Rico was a rip off.... they need to money.... if it was just another ship like the Gorizia... they woiuld only sell a few.... I asked someone in my clan (I'm the commander, and its on the NA server) why they paid for the Pay-to Rico... his answer was all the hype of the dockyard... wanting to know why people are angry... so he paid for the ship... I asked him if he new the specs of the ship before buying it, NO! When I told him that a few CC's have told people to buy the Alaska instead as its better.... I think he was sad. He then told me he wouldn't be buying any more ships unless people liked them, were value for money and not associated with hype or a bogus apology.... For my part, I have been buying premium ships on all but the CIS server... I buy premium time for the NA server.... I purchased a clan on the NA server, I was here when clans first started (EU) so was given one for free... I haven't pushed it, its only got me as the only member... the NA server clan has 40 members.... The point I'm making is... YES.... I spent a LOT of money on this game in the old days... you KNEW what you were getting without anyone trying to scam you... one of the first ships I paid money from was the Graf Spee... and on the NA server, I have a fleet (now, as of last night) of 149 ships.... ALL tiers... 1 through to 10 with NO gaps, ALL classes... including a few CV's I was able to grind but only because I had them before the so called "rework".... So I joined days after if left beta... 21st July, 2015... spent a fortune... it was a good game back then... I trusted WoWs and WG.NET... the vast majority of people did.... but not now. I will not throw good money after bad... who is to say WoWs won't get so desperate for money that the first Premium sub they sell is ridiculously over priced at 250 Euros but as its OP, everyone buys it.... effectively killing the game for all other classes of ships.... you say they won't? Really? that is brave! Many of us though WG would NEVER pull a money grab lie the Pay-To Rico fiasco.... Yet.... here we are. I'm yet another one that will not be handing over any money because I have my doubts about the trustworthiness of the company... or if it will even be here in 12 months time. BUT... trying to get WG or WoWs to even acknowledge that and give such assurances is.... met with a total silence. As for the PR event... they are just shutting up and raking in their ill gotten gains... they don't care that the money grab is going to cost them more in the long run... hence, why I want a reassurance.... would I accept it if they did? Well.... there will NEVER be subs in the game....right? Sorry for the typos, I got them mostly I thi8ink, my cancer meds are causing hell with my vision to day. I think I got most of them.

Its not a boat, its a ship.

Speaking of false information... go look in a mirror. We are not cry babies, and its HUNDREDS on this forum alone, hundreds MORE on the 3 other forums, the VAST majority of the world wide 200 odd CC's... many on FB, many on Twitter.... So how about you stop belittling out VALID complaints.... before telling others to tell the truth.

Maybe you should educate yourself by watching the videos from the CC's to see how people WERE scammed before coming here and saying they weren't... we speak from knowledge, you, from ignorance.

As I said, I joined days after this game came out of beta... 2015 ... the day after, I said that... and my wife agrees (she used to play, so did my son, but they both got fed up with the game after the CV's were scrapped...) My wife loves to look at the price of a new ship and say "that would buy us 12 meals at the restaurant we go to... or that would get us to Belgium for a mini holiday.... She tells me the cost of a ticket from Holland to New York (RETURN) is about 550 Euros.... for that money... I could buy TWO Pay-to Ricos but NEVER ever get to touch it... and if the game closed down, I've lost my money.... EVERYONE would have.... so, I spent some money on ships and premium time in the start, but nothing I wouldn't miss... but its at that point now where if they are going to try and scam money out of me... then I won;t say "maybe"... I'll say NEVER! And I cannot in all good conscience refer friends to this game because I'd end up loosing them... funny thing... no one likes a scammer... the Pay-to Rico event was one GIANT scam.

Relatively speaking...

Isn't that WoWs in reverse? Everything in store is cheaper compared to the one item which is way overpriced....

Look at this... you have to be SUPER HUMAN.... BUT... I've been trying to find a way to say this without maybe getting myself banned... lets take a chance and see what happens, this is my opinion... will they respect that? here it is... This community... consisting of FOUR regional forums and the player base is a COMMUNITY... but in no way does WG or WoWs see themselves as being a part of that... or rather... THE COMPANY isn't.... moderators ARE.... just to clarify that. To the company (WG.NET) the community is a tool to use... to impart propaganda, to spread misinformation and other things.... proof? The apologies we always get, especially with the PR debacle ... are not only lame but disgusting. The contempt they had for the community is like.... "Sorry... yeah we screwed up, wont be the last time we say sorry right, we only say it because we got caught... its merely a word to us, a lousy word, means nothing... because if they meant it... if they were really sorry, they would make amends... fix the issues BUT NO.... we are not worth it..... To make it worse... they wish the community a happy holidays and then ensure the grind would keep us away from our families.... but that was the point ... "I cannot grind, so I will just buy it...." ... THAT was the point of making it nearly impossible... a money grab.... they do not care about the community... if they did, then they would have RESPECTED the community and not engaged in this shameless money grab.... Will they do it again... probably... ESPECIALLY if they think an apology will fix it... or partially fix it... I'll be 60 this year, and I learnt early on that you accept apologies from people who give them sparingly.... and then show remorse by fixing the mistakes they made... if you don't, then the apology becomes worthless and they will do it again and again and again... ... Accepting an apology from those that give them out like sweets ensures they will do it again because you allow them to... its that simple. Not this time.

Yes, the instant they are on sale they are discounted.... which is illegal under EU law... an item that never been sold before cannot instantly appear on sale... because they know most vouchers from retailers won't apply to anything on sale... (EDIT: I believe Bethesda found that out the hard way... but not sure. Seem to recall in in my news feeds a long time ago....) hence, its illegal.... and before another idiot keeps telling me to phone the Police... its illegal in commercial law.... so the Police won't deal with it... the commercial watchdogs will. I finally heard back from the EU watchdogs again (an update on the complaint I made). They will be looking at the whole Payto Rico event the minute it ends. They have all the CC's videos and the posts on the forums, the ones that have not been deleted that is.... I'm hoping that they will say there is a case to answer....

Well, I started playing this game on the 21st July, 2015, days after it came out of beta... ironically, a few days after my birthday. I mention that, because I'm hardly a noob, and at nearly 60 years old, I'm not easily fooled. In fact, I help catch, expose and harass online scammers from India, to name one nation. I mainly play on the NA server these days, but well, not for a day or two now. My heart just isn't in it any more. WoWs has finally ruined their good name, well, its been on thin ice for a very long time now, but one bogus apology too many. If tyou say sorry, you move heaven and earth to fix it, right, but not with the Payto Rico, they said sorry, but won't make changes... in fact, they altered facebook posts to show they NEVER tried to mislead anyone... Thank God Zoup, I think, had a an old screen shot proving they tried to alter what they said... to make it worse, while the members were warned NOT to mention the PR fiasco on the Charity stream, no such restrictions were placed on WG staff, one of them, from the NA office, trolled Zoup that the "metrics show the PR even is popular"... so much for the apology. I am of the opinion that they will rip off customers... scam customers... US... any and every chance they can get. Why? Because when the "metrics" were mentioned, they had no way to tell if the grind was popular or not UNLESS they based it on the number of ...whales... who paid for the Gorizia... in order to help them grind the Pay-To Rico. They refereed to the metrics to prove the event was a success... but ignored nearly ALL the CC's who had released videos condemning them for their illegal practices... they ignore the many angry people on the forums, on Twitter and on FaceBook... universal condemnation.... all ignored because they would rather go with statistics.... Its a JOKE when they say they listen, they DON'T, not EVER... the attack on Zoup is proof of that... lets not mention the Trolling by "Earl Gray" or whatever his name is... But even so, maybe they just wanted the Gorizia? Until the event is over, they have no real way to tell, yes, a few people got refunds, but the Pay-to Rico seems popular with whales who have lots of money.... or do they? I wonder what will happen when the credit card bills start coming in? But who would buy such a sip? Beginners who want to look cool in front of everyone? I once had a discussion on the NA forums with this ....person... who made fun of the number of ships I had.... turns out, he equated being a good player with the number of ships you owned, especially the ships you paid for. THAT is the kind of player WoWs loves, the ones that want to appear cool and good players because they paid a fortune for the Pay-to Rico. They would rather rip off players NOW rather than trade fairly and honestly with players over time.... which tell me their metrics must be telling them the game will soon be dead. Look at it, I see fewer and fewer people playing the game, most of them say they play for free now as they won't pay WoWs any more money... worse, no one is buying into the recruiting scam... why would anyone invite a friend to play when as soon as they are ripped off, stop playing and don't want to know you any more???? So.... now we come to this ship...HMS Indomitable.... it was bad when it was given to the testers, all advice was ignored and here we go again.... the ship is real enough, but you don't actually really DRIVE the ship (being a CV).... you fly the planes... that is your warship... a flying warship... but they hope that the players will THINK the planes are OP and that is what EVERYONE wants.... a OP ship to sink others ... even the worst player can look good with an OP ship, right? At least till the truth hits home.... and then its no refunds.... I own the Smolensk... sure, its OP sort of... but I prefer my Jean Bart.... I did the Gorizia grind and honestly... they ONLY way they can make people pay for it was to make it part of a larger even where they got the ship to get the bigger "prize" and won't bother to drive her once the stupid PR grind event is over with... but the funny thing is... they expect the Pay-to Rico to be OP... but its not, buy an Alaska and save your money.... BUT.... to cut a long story short.... The Pay-to Rico, The Gorizia, hell, even the Genoa premium ship is BAD.... and now this one... a CV .... I have all the ships I want... maybe a few other older ones... But since late last year.... WoWs has been releasing garbage ships, honestly.... none of them compare to the ships that came out 2 or more years ago.... and the CV line... was hype... they killed a unpopular ship and replaced it with a new way of playing... with substandard cheaty balancing.... just so, as they said, can sell a few more CV's... again, the only CV's really with having are the Premium T10's... maybe a few researchable T10 CV's.... I love it when a CV appears in either random or Co-Op because I just know I'm going to get a good kill count of airplanes... So..... I'm out. I pledge to the community that I will NOT support WoWs with ANY money till they say sorry and mean it and change, REALLY change the way they do things. The Pay-To Rico event, they didn't come across to me as good business men, but rather, as crooks.... their tactics are contemptible. I'll still play.... but not as often as I used to.... 1, maybe 2 games a day, if that. My wife and I are already planning a holiday to New York in summer and with what I save by not giving it to WoWs, will help... NOT that I spent a great deal of money on it these days. I don't PAY for premium ships any more... I stopped doing that when they nerfed a premium ship and they said they wouldn't ever do that.... but did... I'm playing other games now, especially to take my mind off my Terminal Lung Cancer... War Thunder looks good... I'm especially NOT looking forward to Subs... I was... but given the CV debacle... I have no faith they they will get it right... or even care if they don't. Money is all they care about, on the old CV's.... I could get a kill or two every game....after the rework... yeah right.... the planes are cannon fodder for ships. AND.... I'll still post here... and I'll be doing a few pieces on WoWs for my website, my blog and for YOUtube as I have finally got the software to be able to do that now.... Sorry for the long waffle.... but I want you to know that I've been playing for so long, its HARD to give a game that IMHO has gone bad... I am out of necessity... not because I want to.

Seriously? I was going to post my experience of dealing with them and a few points I'll raise touch on this very thing... this: "Support" is from Saint Petersburg I think, they are Russians, this was admitted to on the NA forums, and there appears to be HUNDREDS of them... all with English Anglo Saxon names which is impossible, maybe one or two... but not all of them, and the names are obviously made up... would you live in Russia and use a first name like "Garfield" or worse.... the point is, even if they ARE real names, I mean, real people, why? Staff on the Forums use game names, why do these workers have to use REAL names? But then... they are not real... it just LOOKS like they are real and the made up and its random... I have NEVER had the same person deal with me twice... So, why keep a conversation between myself and a person that obviously doesn't exist private? Isn't that censorship if you want to talk about how bad or rude "support" is? Anyhow, The information I provided to "support" was along the lines of screen shots of my warship being rammed by a bot..... I got an answer along the lines of them needing to know the date and time of the game and what Tank I was using..... The stuff gets worse, every time, a "new" person.... every time, they ask the same question..... stalling? Reading off flash cards? Anyhow, it took so long for me to even GET anywhere with then using translators and reading off flash cards and STILL not getting it.... that I made the comment that they were a waste of time.... Now, I wonder if WoWs keeps private notes on all us players asking for support... because under the E.U. privacy laws, I should be allowed to see that information... I ask.... because ever since then, when I ask for support.... and I'm nice and polite.... I get told "not if you're going to insult us".... and then waiting 72 hours for a simple answer as to where a camo I had bought was.... in the end, someone on the forums told me to untick a box and it would show up... I wonder how long WoWs would have kept me waiting? Support is a JOKE! I doubt they even play the games they provide support for... I don't bother with it now, I always ask my clan if urgent or ask in the forums... I cringe when I see a post from "staff" saying Support really cares, we care, we will help... we do listen etc etc etc etc.... and on the forums, they say "fill out a support ticket".... Have they never wondered why people use the forums for support as, partly, that is why its there? Its because they have NO FAITH in this support because its hardly support at all... BTW, the advantage of having ONE person deal with the problem is so you are not forced to explain things over and over and over again which is what tends to happen with this so called "support"

Actually, the original concept had straw and cement added to the ice to make it stronger. When the British proposed the idea, they had a normal block of ice and one made with "permacrete" (I think they called it) Fired a .45 pistol at the ice, it made a hole.... then the other one, no hole... it took much much longer to melt... (and they would have used refrigerator units any how)

I see no ships..... what you tawkin bout, Willis?

Whacky ships?????? What do you think the Pay-to Rico is? If it was real life, it would be like the US navy spending 500 Billion on a cruiser with nothing special about her at all... ie: crazy. But, I have often thought about this, and I see someone did make a game like it... albeit its not multi player. The idea being, design your own ship, provided you follow rules of weight etc etc ... you can make a BB the size of the Yamato and place twice as many guns on it because the guns are smaller. I'd spend a week designing the ultimate ship, BUYING IT... then taking it out to see it was worth it....

I should have said the UK or United Kingdom, because at the time of my posting this, there is still a U.K. but I don't know for how much longer.

Just like England is not part of Europe, right? I'm 59, Russia is the same as Soviet Russia, Russia is Belarus because it...is... Saint Petersburg is in Russia.

I did post something but I don't want to get a warning for your silly comments. Blocked.... I really hope that works.

sea hornet first flew in 1944 ... seriously, either you focus on the ship, or the planes. A T8 brit CV would not take Sea Hornets... a T9 or T10 CV would. Again, is WoWs wanting us to drive warships, fly them ...or fly planes.... if its a T8 ship, the planes should reflect this... unless WoWs is suggesting that the Tiers mean nothing.... and they can do what they want... like launching 4 or 5 fighters from a cruiser with a magical catapult that can launch all 5 aircraft 1 one second flat.... even IF such a ship that could do that every existed... (it didn't)....

The ship might be real, but the twin engined fantasy is not... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Indomitable_(92)