159Hunter

This one should really be added though...

This is the sad part. The game UI clearly shows when you're spotted. So in reality there is no excuse for not knowing if you were spotted or not.

Unfortunately, they punish cruisers harder as cruisers do tend do be in front of BBs. Same as the RN HE, it was meant to deal with bow in BB, but it hurts cruisers a lot more (one Monq volley killing off all your DM AA in a CV game plus substantial damage…).

Average (BB) player for you. And WG listens to them

What I don't understand is this: you plan a competition with rules. Yet, nobody at WG considered testing set rules to see if there was na flaw in the calculation method? Seriously?

So you provide us with ONE screenshot without a date on it and this is supposed to prove your point how exactly? Let's assume this was one of the games you played over the last 7 days, where are the 96 Gearing screenshots to back up your claim that this is a "typical game"? I also see you have a great position there in the middle of your fleet… If you don't like the radars, then play something else and be usful for your team.

Nope, that's not at all what I'm saying.

So how do compentent/incompetent DDs play out in radar discussion? Lately there are mainly three groups: - those rushing in and dieing to radar (even though you warn them, they just rush in) - those that sit back and spam torps from max range - the minority that found a balance between previously mentioned playstyles. Should we balance radar to accomodate players 1 and 2?

1. don't forget proximity spotting on that list 2. then you can also reduce amount of DDs. A better thing would be to even them out between teams So basicly all you're going for is nerfs to radar cruisers. How will you rebalance them (still waiting for an answer from @AnotherDuck on this question as well )?

You can always play at low tiers with two CVs. In that case: blame the other guy

Well, there is the option to go for premium tier X camo for wooster and DM. So that's well worth it, saves me 5000 doubloons.

Don't forget to blame your team as well for camping, not radaring the enemy DD and lack of spotting by your CV. @OP: suicide is not the option. You'll never learn anything from those games and that'll keep you clueless on how to play in such a game as bottom tier. Which in turn will make you more annoyed and angry the next time it happens. Plus, you're letting your team down because of your feeling, pretty selfish move no?

For starters, I did not pull the realism card. But yeah, I don't mind realistic torps if we get realistic radar. Because: you'll have one volley of them ( very long reload ) and my radar is one permanently, so good luck torping me ( plus I'll be running permanent hydro as well ). Really, what I said was: are you sure you want to pull the realism card in this discussion? The common tip is not: camp more, the common tip is: don't rush in without thinking (aka over agressive). Atm radar punishes DDs that don't look at the map and don't think about their movement ( or better, they don't plan ahead, they don't think: what if I get spotted … ). So sure, if you want to give DDs so much freedom then by all means. You'll have amazing 7 vs 7 DD games ad the rest BB. So my DM will get long hydro as well? Or better torpedo protection? Or how else do you see this? Combined with hydro and proximity spotting. And this would make radar that much harder to understand. With the very simple mechanic we have today, so many people get cuaght because they don't understand it. And you want to make it more difficult? No this means that people feel that an IMBALANCE in amount of radar ships is impacting games. Which might be true (though I guess WG could come up with their magical number proving the opposite ). BBs agreed, DDs without smoke: don't see the issue. They trade one tool for another. That's true.

Don't pull the realism card m8. Cause in that case I want permanent radar...

Easy, don't play in Divisions and you're less likely to win those games. Thus not losing valuable double XP and such on a first win

Sure, but then the same should be done for hydro and proximity spotting.

Radar is mostly fine the way it is. Most people complaining about it seem to want to continu playing DDs as they did on low tiers and fail to adapt to the presence of radar OR don't even play radar ships. What should be adressed is radar range vs detection range: stealth radar is bad and should be removed, a discrepancy between both of 500m should suffice. That being said, if you do plan to rework radar: make sure that cruisers currently having radar don't lose power ( aka, you might need to buff some other stats on said ships to keep them in line with their other ships, especially at tier X where I consider cruisers to be well balanced amongst eachother ).

Cleveland is a great ship. It works perfect for a CL. It's not a ship to tank (even though you receive so many lol Overpens) and if your team camps then you'll have a hard time as it's not a solo pusher. Then again, should it be?

Which means: learn the radar distances of the enemy ships and STAY OUTSIDE OF THAT RANGE. Is that really that hard to understand? This is the worst part, getting radared early in game could happen if ships were unspotted. Near the end of the game, with few ships remaining you have an idea of their (general) location. Getting radared then is just bad situational awareness.

Cherry Blossom was a ridiculous operation. Losing that one is impossible (?)and thus perfect to grind Cleveland as you got very good xp rewards. So that's one I classify as too easy. That's not what operations should be. What should they be? Probably a tad harder than cherry blossom with slightly toned down rewards. Should you get a 100% succes rate? Nope, not if you have a terrible team. Should you need a 7 man clan division to win it? Nope, just a team that actually knows how to dodge, angle and select ammo (well, tbh this is probably asking too much, but one can only hope right?). Balancing this is hard, but that's WG's job and atm they aren't really overperforming in this department.

Well, got a 20% coupon as well today, so that Atlanta came in just shy over 13 euros. Makes for a pretty sweet deal I think.

Then if you would like to quote me correctly: I said "if people get constantly radared then they only have themselves to blame for it". But ofcourse, if you only want to quote the second part of the sentence then you're twisting it towards your own vision. Worchester is bad besign, as I posted before, because a ship without a good difference between radar range and concealement is just bad. So there's room for change there. But then again, how often do you encounter Worchester? As there being no counter to radar: it's called map awareness and brain. And yes that takes time to get used to, but honestly. The opposite would be far worse: if there is no radar than a DD will just sail around wherever he wants without thinking about his positioning. Because unlike radar (with limited duration and cooldown), concealement is a fixed and permanent value. No radar removes the skill of positioning from a DD. Yes the shima 20km torps got nerfed, but who on earth uses those anyways? They were plain stupid. which other torps were nerfed, because US, KM, PA and IJN short range torps work just fine. So now you are advocating stealth fire? Another ridiculous game mechanic which I'm glad they removed (and yes, I abused it in my Blyska and Chapy to name just a few). Yes, but this is BB we're talking about. WG's favorite milk cow so they won't make that gameplay to demanding skillwise. I disagree with lowering citadels, but I'm afraid they won't undo this. You cannot deal with a DD that has no limitation on his positioning. What radar does is make them think about how and where to sail. If we had CVs in every game we could maybe forego radar, but we all know that's not going to happen. I don't think it's boring at all, going in to bait a radar, then afterwards pushing up to spot that CA for your team, or to flank him is very intense gameplay. Then again, if you refuse to risk your ship then yeah, it'll get very boring. And no, players don't want to adjust because they lose all their freedom and they have to take others into account. A thing that most people in this egocentric world hate. If you want to play DDs without encountering radar: play low tier. If you want to play at high tier you get DDs that are a lot stronger but with limitations to keep this power in check. Bow tanking BB in a CA is terrible gamedesign as well, but yeah. They needed that to justify the Stalingrad armor scheme I guess? As for Moskva not being strong without backup: same goes for every CA. A solo CA is just that, one ship with/without radar that you can just kill because it's alone. No, your slippery argument wants to make it a lot easier for DDs. Which will remove CA entirely from this gameplay because BB are so strong.

Source please

Well, you claim that radar "removes skill". That is not exactly the same as "making things easier". Do I disagree that it doesn't make it easier? Of course not. Do I disagree with the fact that removing radar makes DD gameplay a lot easier? Of course not. Look, if people get constantly radared then they only have themselves to blame for it. As I said before, I have no problems playing DD in the current meta. Maybe all those people complaining about how powerful radar is should start playing radar cruiser themselves. That'll teach them that it's not a magical button that instantly kills a DD and saves your CA AND they'll learn a few tricks on how to counter them. lol, and you can't deal with the current meat so it isn't fine? None of them are arguments, they are all feelings. At least I take the time to play both sides, something that can't be said from a lot of those "Radar is bad for the game" people. But I do have the feeling that a lot of people don't want to adjust to radar, they move up the tiers and then find out that their concealement is not absolute. That a counter exist. And they refuse to learn how to adapt. Or, they want to adapt but they can't cause of WG's perfect information on how the gameplay works ( cause yeah, a lot of people do not watch YouTube games ). So what are you saying, we're both on a slippery slope going other directions? I can live with that, not here to follow anyone's opinion.

That's true. No ship should have radar range > detection range ( that includes DDs?). And a safe margin of about 500 m? That way a ship could still permaspot the radar ship if he knows what he's doing but not so safe that he can do this drunk whilst reading a book so to say.