Culiacan_Mexico

I am not so sure. The mechanics are of course open to change, and just sort of thinking here, but... With the current smoke, it acts as a wall that blocks LOS, so a DD that enters the cap and immediately smokes will not only eliminate their own ability to detect the opposing ships, but block their own team from spotting opposing ships. Someone needs to stay outside of smoke to spot. Smoke is almost always used as a defensive enhancement tool for either yourself or your team; and must be positioned with care so that the opposing team does not capture it. The new smoke might work differently, especially with regards to cruiser detection. Both sides have two Pensacola approaching each other, and at about 12Km they open fire. All are of course are detected. I am moving 5Km in front of my CAs with a DD and put down a line of smoke that blocks line of sight between the CA, but since I am within the opposing teams Pensacola smoke detection range of 7,32, my CA disappear, while the opposing Pensacolas stay detected, and under fire. I can then move my DD into smoke, thus becoming undetectable by aircraft... and very hard to counter by the opposing ships. My whole 'fleet' goes into stealth mode fire mode. As a DD, I no longer need to smoke up ships on my team, but instead block the line of side of the opposing team, and then spot... probably from the smoke. (I don't see this working on an open type map). Also, one of the current issues I have with smoking up allies is... most of the time they don't have a clue what to do... mainly stop. The new smoke kind of eliminates this issue, as I just need to be 3-5Km in front of them when I put down the wall of smoke. They really don't have to do anything... they just get the advantages. I am not saying I am correct, but this change might have a fairly significant effect on DD play. I could be wrong. ST, Smoke mechanics update.Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing now applies not only for the ship in smoke, but also if there is a smoke cloud on LOS between the shooter and the target. That will allow to exclude a highly illogical situation when hiding behind smokes gives better concealment than hiding inside smokes. Ship-to-ship detection for smoke firing is calculated for each hull, based on caliber and base concealment, it is not influenced by any skills or upgrades. It does not replace guaranteed detection and still requires LOS (smokes excluded for this check). The exact value for each ship can be found in Port specs. Similar to current main gun firing penalty, the effect lasts for 20 seconds only if the ship was detected as a result of firing.

Because of Ranked and Competitve.

As a DD player, under the current system, proximity spotting a BR CL is usually not wise, but with the proposed changes... it might be a good tactic. I wonder now long it will take before BR CLs adapt and play further back/more passive?

Your opinion... Not WGs.

Maybe... maybe not. S_O once said, among other things, BBs live too long. I don't think nerfing BBs survival as a whole makes a lot of sense, but nerfing survival in certain situations might. When I see a Bismarck at max range sniping behind islands, it leads me to believe that their primary goal in the game is not winning, damage, ships sunk, etc. Instead, it is survival. I believe nerfing camping BBs survival would have a significant effect.

If BB population is a problem, and there number need to be reduced... I would like them to do a selective reduction. The average fighting BB player should be little touched, instead... the 'camp at max range group' should be targeted.

If there are too many BBs in each game on average... If WG refuses to hard cap BBs... What are the other options?

Is this correct? An opposing Fiji smokes up and starts firing, I move my DD to around 5km, smoke up, them my team and I start firing. I can spot him from smoke, but no one on the opposing team can target me or break my spotting? Hydro doesn't help the Fiji, as it is too short of a range. That doesn't sound fun and engaging. Fiji Hydroacoustic Search Ship Detection 4.20km ST, smoke firing detection range 5.4km

I don't believe WG agrees, as they have nerfed CV, DD and Cruiser.

Since WG has eliminated limits for anything other than CVs, the only other possibility is to change game play enough that players move out of BBs. If that is a goal. I am not sure it is for WG.

...an Island radar and sonar see through it?

That seems like a significant nerf to some cruisers.

I don't play carriers... but this seems so obvious.

I don't disagree, but............. ;) The elephant in the room is this, if BBs are over played, then they need to be nerfed.

I agree incremental change would be better, but that is not WGs style. I believe it took WG +18 months to lower Pensacola's detection rating; something that could have been done relatively quickly. Self correction: WG did notice Fubuki was under performing and gave a modest turret rotation buff and they saw Khabarovsk was over performing and nerfed its torpedos. ;)

I don't believe anything you proposed will have much of an effect. Basically, CA and DDs are fine will CV changes have no effect on BB numbers; as changes are related to one nationality of ship. If you believe BB numbers are too high, then you need to determine why and nerf that aspect.

"Goal - This change should make smokes firing tactics less viable for those ships that were not intended for such tactics gameplay-wise: BBs and most cruisers. Additionally, there is more reward for active play and the risk of rushing into enemy smoke." I don't believe WG is completely open about what they wish to accomplish with a 'smoke' change. While I believe they wish to accomplish their stated goal, I think the also want to change the current ranked/competitive meta and give a minor nerf to British CLs. Ranked at teir 6 would not be effected by radar change.

Respectfully. ---------------- Goal - This change should make smokes firing tactics less viable for those ships that were not intended for such tactics gameplay-wise: BBs and most cruisers. Additionally, there is more reward for active play and the risk of rushing into enemy smoke. Proposal - Firing from inside the smoke now results in ship-to-ship detection range increase (this type of firing did not influence detection before, and the firing ship stayed permanently concealed). The exact value is calculated for each ship based on its concealment and caliber. Average range is 2.5 km for destroyers, 5.9 km for cruisers and 13,6 km for battleships. Effect duration is 20 seconds. ------------------- I wonder about the stated goal and the actual proposal, because if the goal is to actually nerf ships without smoke ability, why does the proposal also nerf ships with smoke ability? In particular, British CL. The answer that "this isn't that big of a nerf to those ships" doesn't answer the question of why the are being nerfed at all.

On the bright side... they didn't propose smoke. Of course they do have enhanced anti-DD AP and virtually no citadel. Remember when stealth fire was being removed, and some suggested, that as compensation, surface detectability ("bloom") would be to lower than 20 seconds for cruisers and destroyers. WG said they would not do that because they didn't want ships fading in and out between shots. British BB get that.

Now in WGs defense, they did eliminate radar and defensive AA from pre-release British BBs. I guess that was considered too much for some reason.

Their actual Achilles heel might be... they are too good at some tiers. They could be nerfed before or after released.

Stats (Data) have to be interpreted and need context.

Interesting. WG uses stats for balancing. The only 'facts' available are stats. Any discussion not based on stats... is opinion.

That is possible. It just opens up questions.