Culiacan_Mexico

Before the US cruiser split radar averaged about 1.5 ships per side. Statistics indicate DDs, the ship type with the lowest average amount of damage and has the lowest survival rate, were not running amok. In game in which there are no radar ships, is there any data to support DDs are running amok?

You do understand your argument refutes itself.... in two line.

I was there... most cruiser players weren't smart enough even with the introduction of short range hydro. It took some skill, work and risk. Radar requires none of that. I would like to note there was one glaring issue with some cruisers, when short range hydro was released, that restricted their ability to counter DDs effectively. No one seems to have mentioned it, so I wonder if anyone who played cruisers in an anti DD role, during that time, is still around?

This was WG original sin: the spotting/concealment game mechanic choices they made. It allows ships to shoot at stuff they don't have line of sight to (from smoke/behind island), plus worst of all it rewards camping/passive focus fire.

I would say Hatsuhara is the pinnacle of DD play and how it should be.

WG has included in the game the option for some DDs to choose between smoke or torpedo reload booster. Basically trade defensive capabilities for offensive enhancement. OK Many cruisers can choose between hyrdo and def fire or the British can choose smoke or radar. Ok Who would trade out any of these for speed boost?

Difficult. WG is planning on enhancing 100mm guns on certain ships (DDs); during testing and after deployment WG will monitor 'data': damage, win rate, kills, etc.; and based on what they find perhaps make adjustments. This is all fairly straight forward. But radar is radically different. If radar cruisers were tracking down DDs in open water, much more efficiently, then WG could track damage kills, etc, but based on WG statements there seem to be no indication that data for radar cruisers is out of sync with non-radar cruisers. WG has said one team with five radar cruisers show no advantage over one with zero radar cruisers. Now most people on the forum would disagree with that assessment, but they don't have WGs 'data' or more realistically WG lack of data. How do you quantify the effect of radar on the game when cruisers are lighting up stuff but other ships are causing the damage? Without good data... how does WG 'nerf' radar?

So you support nerfing ships that sit behind land mass and shoot at ships they can not spot?

Really, which BB has to make a choice between repair party and another consumable? Should BBs choose between repair party or damage control? WG thought this was the way to improve the game.

It will not be removed.

Yes, because that is how it works for other types of ships.

I would like to address this separately. There have been many threads started about radar, especially after the recent increase in per game average about 1.6 to 3.0 per game; and while some have declared it a disaster, many forum regulars have disagreed and stated you just adapt and it isn't that big of a issue. In effect, they are saying radar is not an effective tool at countering DDs... even after a 100% increase in radar ships per game. So what does that mean for radar when the current peak slips back to something much lower? When I checked Russian high tier gunboat DDs, not surprisingly, I couldn't find a noticeable trend after the radar increase. If DDs adjust by playing more cautiously, or just maintain distance, then radar overall effectiveness is marginalized. Radar is an area denial tool, because: "Cruisers venturing in this same area to get within a DD spotting range had to go into the open as well, where the DD was more than capable to stay out of range and keeping the cruiser lit so they could be killed by the cruisers counter. This stopped the cruisers from coming out to kill the DDs."

If cruisers are incapable, why is radar generally restricted to tiers 8 and above? Can cruiser counter DDs at low to mid tiers without radar? Player Average for Ships [ at 2018/05/05 ] Radar cruiser represent less than half of all cruisers played about 1.6 on average per game. What happens in games where their are no radar cruisers at mid tier? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sub_Octavain (Shima Torps later nerfed) 13. Did the radar help counter the torpedo soup (or walls, whatever you prefer)? A. Hard to say, since there aren't a lot of radar equipped ships at high tiers yet. However, radar wasn't meant to be the sole solution to the torpedo soup problem. We still need to solve it from a different standpoint, and that is exactly what we plan to do in the next update, by changing certain elements little by little. You will know next week what we concretely plan to do regarding this matter.

What conclusion did I jump too? Your statement: "The fact was that the general player was not able to do their job." The rational you gave" "And were severely punished by bb's causing less cruisers over all." Are your two statements unrelated? If they are unrelated, why couldn't cruisers do their job? "The fact was that the general player was not able to do their job." I will ask once again "... where did this 'fact' come from? Are you basing your argument on this fact?

Ouch.

So you are saying the actual problem is BBs? I am also wonder where did this 'fact' come from?

Not my experience. With short range hydro, my cruises were very effective at killing DDs stupid enough to sit in smoke. Of course, I actually had to do something beside sit at max range.

I agree. DD damage output on all tiers should be adjusted so that on average the variation is no more than 5-10% of what BBs at the same tier do.

Radar, as is, should never have been added to the game, but it is too late for that now. At this point I say just add radar to every tier 8, 9 and 10 ships.

If you want an easy life play BBs.

Player Average for Ships [ at 2018/06/30 ] Total Games Played (Tiers 8, 9 and 10) Japanese Cruisers 33084 German Cruisers 45941 French Cruisers 16154 British Cruisers 37502 Russian Cruisers 32920 US Cruisers 138587 (45.% of all cruiser played.) Others Atlanta 15940 Belfast 3394 If only US Cruisers are using radar (unlikely) then based on overall cruisers played, then 2.6 radar ships, per side, per game average. If all Russian and British Cruisers are included as radar ships (unlikely) then based on overall cruisers played, then 3.6 radar ships, per side, per game average. The overall average probably lies closer to three radar ships, per side, per game on average.

I feel I can generally rely on my teammates in random, although sometime they do surprise and show they understand the game and play well.

Absolutely!

Player Average for Ships [ at 2018/05/26 ] Win Damage Kills Survival Z-23 45.98 27292 0.57 24.33 Z-46 48.64 34422 0.68 25.83 Z-52 48.43 41432 0.75 28.76 Player Average for Ships [ at 2018/06/30 ] Win Damage Kills Survival Z-23 46.77 23622 0.50 23.81 Z-46 46.90 30157 0.57 26.42 Z-52 46.83 36459 0.62 25.64 Minor change accept in damage/kills. About 10% loss. Hardly unexpected.