Culiacan_Mexico

The effects of radar on overall passive play is limited at best, but it is a number of 'items' that do not help the overall meta: long term smoke, long range torpedoes, PA near continues smoke, etc. I don't believe radar is killing the game as some have said, and in this thread I have said, radar is part of the game and you need to deal with it. Post 201 in this thread. WG balancing!

Ok. Low concealment, in how does a BB counter a cruiser with concealment lower than its own?

It would seem to me that a cruiser, with or without radar, for any reason, chasing a DD in the current meta early would be unwise. Just to clarify, I never made such a claim. Agreed?

On a number of threads I have said that long term smoke is not good for the game and leads to passivity; and while a change here would not fix everything... wouldn't that be a good start? If one believes smoke is an issue isn't the best way to address it is through fix it directly.

What? I really have know idea what you are going on about. Where did I say I didn't want counters?

Just to clarify, as long as something can't directly kill you git gud does not apply? If this is true will you extend it to other things?

You don't seem to understand the term. That would be when someone say you want 12 vs 12 Shima, when I have never state as such. ",,, an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument..."

Ok, call up the data on the Fubuki from that time period and supply your different conclusion.

You were the one who brought op killing thing. I simply supplied the proof that killing wasn't why top tier Japanese DDs need to be nerfed, as there was a much bigger issues. The skill level to spam from max range if minimal... and who wants that? The biggest issue was the area denial effect, which made game play way too passive. Do you disagree? Sub_Octavian: ...we don't want to encourage "torpedo soup" when all you have to do is to spam torpedoes from huge ranges. -------------------------------- ghostbuster_..."the problem was those fast and long range torpedos promoted very bad play. they also didnt require any skill to get rewarded. just spam some torps from max distance and surely you hit something, thats why WG changed those torps" ----------------------------------- "If a DD strikes fear towards the enemy, it has done it's job for 50% already because that fear will stop an enemy push" ---------- "One Shima, no issues, two Shima's, not a big issue.. more of them -> area denied." ---------- "try to push against something like this.Shima doesent even ve to hit, Its more about the area of denial-affect." ------- "the Shima is feared as a area-denial weapon, no secret in this."

The statistic show the Fubuki was not nerfed because of it damage output or is ability to effect win rate. Yet it was nerfed... with good reasons.

Strawman

So statistics from that item period you reject? Then what you use as evidence?

Torp soup was not an effective killer. Fubuki was still 'nerfed'. 2016/01/09 Win Rate Damage Fubuki 49.18 29600

Why was git gud not the answer? I would like to point out the 'problem' went beyond Shimas.

Why was the old Shima torpedoes hated? Just to note: I was fine with them, did well, but everything is about an individual

1. My shame. Along time ago, when I was play the Kongo... and was just a well below average player, on the old New Dawn. I sent up my scout plane, because our CV had spot the opposing team just leaving there span. This is extremely early in the game. I took a shot... and a New York detonated. The rage in chat was massive... and I was embarrassed. I am glad WG fixed that at least. 2. Before American CL came out, radar was running about 1.5 ships per team, which mean many games had no radar or whole sides of the maps were empty. At low tiers BB are much weaker vs DD than at the higher tiers. But the good news....! Premiums have radar so it isn't going away. This is your dream?

That could really shake things up in high tier, clan battles, or ranked.

Games Played Win rate Damage Kills Shenyang 251 74.90% 54,144 2.2 This ships is not a very good stealth torpedo boat, but it is a very good gunboat; and I was spotted a lot because my gun ran hot most of the time. If Shenyang is not OP, it lives next door; but for all of that... the determine factor wasn't the ship or stealth but skill level. To near identical ships, but a different group of players in them. 2016/02/20 Minekaze 3346 50.41 Kamikaze R 2209 54.14

Interesting, I did not know that. This could be interesting.

If you are say a DD can sit back and shoot torpedoes and seldom hit things sure, but it has no more meaning than saying German BBs sit on the border and shoot there guns and "works every time all the time". Stealth torping rarely hits anything. This is when I started over and replayed the Wakatake. I did well in it but look at the torpedo hit rate... and of course you know what the guns were like. Stealth torping is actually a trap for many DD players, as they think sitting back at max range is the proper way to use their ship (remind you of some BB players?) Games Played Win Rate Damage Torpedo Hit Rate Wakatake 159 68.55% 47,215 14% I would say when you compare a very good BB play and very good DD player you will find they have a lot in common... they just use different tools. It isn't the tool, it is the craftsman.

I am very interest in seeing how these new ships work out; as the sure look fragile, and in general that isn't the type of ships many player like. WG definitely needs to give them sometime to stabilize.

What you seem to have is a small group of players who are very good at these ships overall. Most of these ships have been pulled for a reason. 2018/07/14 (Two Months) Unique Players Win Rate Fujin 47 58.57 Kamikaze 69 59.93 Kamikaze R 359 58.98 Belfast 366 58.79 Giulio Cesare 478 56.80 Koenig Albert 14 56.54 Imperator Nikolai I 11 62.30 Kronshtadt 680 57.31 Gremyashchy 47 57.86 This is incorrect.

I couldn't say.

You could be right, but WG says they are not seeing any advantages in radar cruisers as reflected in win rate; which I think would show. Of course this is WG saying. As with regards to radar, since line of sight is not an option, any nerf would seem to have to come from duration or range. Do you see any other way to nerf it?

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it really the single ships that uses radar that is the greatest danger or the other ships that focus fire?