Syrchalis

I think fighters could go into a way different direction actually. What if fighters weren't mainly there to shoot down bombers (or protect your own), but actually were mainly there to deal with the enemy fighters? For that to work, fighters would need an actual objective, like spotting - but one that is actually crucial to a team and the carrier player. E.g. in NF fighters were used primarily to spot and shooting down the enemy fighters meant blinding the enemy team. You often had no time to deal with bombers, which is the case right now as well in WoWs. I suggest this because AS setups are neither fun to play nor to play against. The reason is that they completely stall out the CV game. You can't attack, he can't attack, nothing happens. Or if both sides play very aggressively then both sides are ineffective in what they are doing. It just completely ruins the game if one or both CVs are AS. And they really need to fix that. The idea is that you can semi-freely attack with your bombers, even if you are AS setup yourself and if you manage to win the fighter fight you reap the benefits of the fighters, which could be spotting or something else that is actually relevant. In AS versus strike the AS side would reap the fighter benefits while the strike CV could still strike rather well and so both sides could still do their job, but it would be an interesting matchup instead of a boring stalemate in which both sides are basically irrelevant. My only issue with my own idea is that I don't see any use for fighters outside of killing bombers and that's the real problem here. If they could strafe ships for module damage or anything yeah, maybe they are useful, but I don't see that happening and I don't see it compare to the impact of bombers in any way. And if they deal damage to ships or even set fires they become too close to bombers I think. As it is right now, CVs should just all have no fighters. Every CV should be strictly bombers. This way they are actually in line with the original idea of WG - a vulnerable ship, hiding, and providing support.

1. Even if it had only 1 charge it would be OP. BBs don't need hydro. It's another tool ontop of a WAY too versatile class. Cruisers should be versatile ships, not BBs. But right now cruisers can only hide from the overpowered BBs and make use of none of their strengths because their weakness - getting oneshot from any range at any angle - is just overshadowing any strength they might have. 2. IRL and sense = irrelevant. BBs should be countered by DDs. So either BBs take more torp damage or the nerfs to manuverabiltiy have to be insane. 3. Tier 8 is not fine. Bismarck turns on a dime, it's horrendously OP. It's probably the most OP ship in the game right now. It needs a nerf to EVERYTHING and it would still be god-tier. 4. All KM BBs are 100% long range AA focused, which makes them so strong. Ever since the changes to AA it's the only AA that matters. You might feel like you have a problem with planes, but let me assure you, you don't. When I run around in my Scharnhorst, Tirpitz or my lower tier german BBs I'm absolutely untouchable by CVs. Probably because I know how to outplay a CV, either way, their AA is far far far too strong. IMO KM BBs would be balanced if they had NO AA at all. They have so many advantages that this glaring weakness wouldn't even make them mediocre.

Much fun when everyone cries about your class being OP, right? Guess what, BBs were more OP and for longer than any other class, so yeah, deal with it. IMO Torpedo Protection has to be removed entirely from BBs. I don't get why other ships have to suffer from getting literally one or two-shot by 20k damage torpedoes and BBs take 12k damage from them. Torpedoes are actually made to counter BBs. But as it is right now, with BBs turning on a dime they take at best 1-2 torps, just like the most nimble cruisers and DDs if caught off-guard. So overall BBs take far too little torpedo damage. Step 1: Remove hydro entirely from german BBs - it was a failure to give them a cruiser utility ability Step 2: Remove torpedo protection from BBs Step 3: Increase rudder shift and turning circle for T4-8 BBs Step 4: Severly reduce AA across the board, but especially on german BBs so they have an actual weakness and not just strengths

Bullcrap. Every torpedo DD goes as close as it can get, which is around 5-6km and they still miss nearly every time. Hydro spots the torps basically directly after being dropped, balanced? Nope. I can dodge BB shells from 16+km, but any closer and the BB being any smart can easily hit you. And once you're closer than your max range as a cruiser, which is generally around 15km, then BBs start oneshotting you through your bow or aft. G.K. is so good in that, I don't ever move in shooting range of it in my CAs because with 12 shell broadside aiming is unnecessary, you just get deleted. So why do DDs need to get so close to have a sub 10% hit rate, when BBs can have 30% hitrates from 15+km and oneshot CAs without any chance of dodging or angling below that? Because hurr durr BBs need to be highest damage, highest HP, fast, hydro-using monsters that can only die to getting focus-fired by 6 people - or of course by the mighty other battleboats. Main damage BBs take is AP shells, that's just wrong. It means the main reason a BB dies is due to other BBs. If that is any balanced, let's bring back Essex/Midway with 2 torpedo bomber squads. They killed each other all the time, so obviously it's balanced. I play all tier BBs as well and I can broadside, sit back and chill and generally just play like some baddie and still carry the game. That's the problem with BBs. Their balance at top level of play is too good, but not insanely OP, the problem is at mid levels of play, where CA and DD are essentially useless and BBs get free candy wherever they go. Just can't make BBs too easy and too effective apparently, because they still whine about torpedo spam and fires.

"2016 is going to be a great year for carriers". Yeah I believe it when I see it WG. You and your promises.

Of course that's true Ishiro. I don't want to quench any spark of hope, I just don't think it's likely. Just the way WG treats BBs compared to CVs gives me little hope for anything. BBs are clearly overperforming, always were since CV nerfs, yet they only got more AA buffs and zero nerfs. DDs obviously suck at dealing with BBs and CAs feel hopelessly lost if they get focused by a BB and still - WG didn't do anything. Why? Because this is World of Battleships primarily. It's Battleships who have been famous and are loved by people, not the other ship classes. And this is what gets them a great deal of players. If BBs were slightly worse than all other classes, then people would be very frustrated with the game. Instead they just leave them better than all other classes, because the majority of people is pretty damn happy with that. If we group people into casual, midcore and hardcore players and then group them by class we get 12 groups (casual DDs, midcore DDs, etc.). Guess what groups are bothered by BBs overperforming? CA, DD and CV hardcore players, which essentially is maybe 5% of their players if at all. Who likes BBs overperforming? Well all BB players and that's 35% of their players. How does this all relate to your topic? Well, simple - WG doesn't care about real balance or treating classes equally. They are a company and act as such, maybe a bit short-sighted, as WG seems to always be, but in the end they do what they think is best. And from what I read in Q&As whenever CVs are brought up they don't want to talk about them. Doesn't that already say a lot about their stance on them? If they don't even want to discuss them? WG doesn't let people talk about their failures with them - and we all know WG is very hesitant about correcting their mistakes or even admitting them. Even worse, they admitted BBs are borderline OP, live too long etc. and they haven't done anything about it. They even said they aren't going to do anything about it. It's simply the game. Play BB or suffer that you're not the famous class who is allowed to be too strong.

Nah, the problem is that BB shoots CA with AP and gets citadels and CA can't do anything about it. Angling doesn't work and dodging shells that need less time flying than your rudder to turn isn't exactly an option either. DD shoots torps at BB and BB presses S twice and dodges 100% of the damage. Most of the time BBs don't even actively dodge torps, they just randomly evade them because something else made them turn or change speed. So what would need to happen is that BB shells need much longer to the target. Ever tried hitting a nimble cruiser like Atago at 20km? Yeah, that's still easier than hitting BBs with torps. Just torps also have three times the reload. And please don't come with "go really close to torp", secondaries are currently way too good at punishing DDs that try to go anywhere close. Especially KM HE ones. And even if you land torps, BB has 5 heals. CA has no heals up to high tier and there it's very limited. It's actually so damn limited that WG had to buff citadel healing from 10% to 33% for cruisers. My problem with BBs and BB players is that BBs were the best class in the game since the game existed, just overshadowed by CVs for a while, because they could actually punish bad BBs. And still 99% of all whining comes from BBs who want to be even more OP. Yet when classes that have been nerfed to useless funless crapcome and want to have a piece of the cake, want to be competitive and fun, then those exact BB players come and troll their topics all day with "hurr durr your class is half as good as mine, that's already strong enough, don't want anything touching my BB".

Nah, maybe they are not completely OP anymore then. If I do a wrong turn in a CA - oneshot. If I get revealed by radar in a bad spot as DD - dead in 5 seconds flat. If I turn wrong in a DD and get torped in a smoke, instant death. If I reveal myself in shooting range as CV or forget to use defensive AA when I get sniped - instant dead. But BB? You never "insta die" like the other classes. You are so safe and retard friendly you must be a complete moron to get 100-0'd as BB. But what do they pay for this protection? What's their downside for being so tanky and unkillable? Lower damage? Guess what, they deal the MOST damage of all. Slow? 32knt BBs. 2-3 high damage torps should DELETE a BB from existence, just like BBs constantly do with cruisers. And even if that was the case, BBs would still deal more damage and still have much more heals. So no, I wouldn't kill the class, I would just make it perform close to the rest. All the morons playing BB would finally get punished for their errors when playing, just like the other classes always were.

IMO BBs should take double damage from torps, just so DDs finally REALLY counter them. I don't get why cruisers have to suffer from 20k damage torpedoes while BBs take 10-15k from the same torpedo, while cruisers should counter DDs and BBs should be countered by them. It should be the other way around. Realism can go screw itself, we need balance and BBs with positive % torpedo protection isn't the way to go.

Some people need flags... reason I do exclusively Try Your Luck is because you nearly always get flags.

BBs shouldn't have hydro, period. DDs need more power against BBs, not less. WG once again had to make something special and destroyed part of the game in the process. KM BBs simply have too many benefits for being a brawler. That alone is OP already. But worse yet, they didn't get any negative side effects as compensation. IMO all KM BBs should have dispersion so bad they can't reliable hit anything above 10km. If you want a dedicated, strong brawler, then only with proper downsides outside of it's strong area. KM BBs don't have any downsides - at all.

Consumables are actually credits, just indirectly. Instead of paying 22500 credits for them you play a few rounds without the extra cost. As far as I understand it the containers just give you "more" of a certain thing. So you can still be "unlucky" and get other stuff.

Guess what, no one in their right mind agrees with you. BBs are the strongest class by far. Any attempt to buff them will get you zero friends here in the forums. Even if you would bring up a true mistake in their design, if it ends with them getting stronger, everyone would disagree. People want to have fun in other classes too and right now that's hard with BBs having freaking hydro so they are save from DDs, endless heals to repair fire and HE damage and ridiculous secondaries and AA to counter their two main counters WITHOUT EVEN DOING ANYTHING. No one likes a class that is so strong and at the same time so easy to play. Games need noob-tubes like BBs, but other, more advanced (and more difficult) tactics/classes need to be more powerful. But right now they are not. A noob, a mediocre player and a pro will all do better in a BB than in any other class. Only a master-tier player will maybe have more success in a DD or CV, because of domination game mode. If you get frustrated by fire spam in your cruisers, but not by getting citadelled all day, then you must be playing a different game than we are. WG just needs to buff cruiser armor so you can't get citadelled while angled.

I won't judge your strategy, because I haven't tried it, but the stat judging thing is simply means of efficiency. When I read a guide in LoL I check who wrote it, because when I figure out how good the player is who wrote it I can look at it with different eyes. If he is really good, then I will take what he says seriously and not deviate much from it. If the author is considerably lower than me in rank, I will still consider what he wrote, because he might be onto something, but I will generally trust my common sense more and disregard what he wrote rather than just blindly trust his decisions. Hiding your stats robs people from judging your strategy properly. How do you define success? If you are a 50% winrate player, you maybe consider 53% winrate in your ship a success. Maybe 40.000 average damage is a lot to you in a T7 cruiser. No one can know. So if people get upset about hidden stats in that case, it's understandable.

That's what you like to think, but here is how things REALLY are: DDs are no potent counter to BBs. Let's just compare. Cruiser radars a DD, gives it a 8k HE salvo, DD is sad. Bad BB shoots in the general direction of cruiser, gets lucky citadel, cruiser is half dead and sad. DD does what exactly against BBs? Oh right, shoot 60knt slow torpedoes, against a target that can turn on a dime and has up to 56% torpedo protection - all BB has to do to avoid it's counter is to press WASD randomly every 30sec. Listing BBs as counter to BBs is absolutely invalid. Let's bring back 2 TB Midway/Essex - they countered themselves as well, so they were absolutely fine, that's why they are still in the game, right? And CVs? Have you ever touched one? Let alone one that wasn't easy-mode (T4/5)? Obviously not. BBs get AA beyond anything that is fair from T6 onward. Why? Because back in the day, if you were solo a CV could wreck you, so BB players, with your mentality whined all day that they can't screw up all day and go unpunished, so WG buffed AA of BBs 5 times until CVs only ever hunted DDs anymore, because attacking a BB meant losing all planes. A well-played BB has no counter. That's why I wreck face with them so hard. Look at my Arizona stats. That thing doesn't even have good AA and yet I have 80% winrate in it, because hurr durr nothing can touch me. Also Arizona is 20knt slow. All the other T6-10 BBs are fast as hell, which is something they don't need to be. BBs just have way too many tools and power.

Hey, let's introduce bullcrap mechanics into all games and just leave them there because they happen rarely. Let's make competitive Starcraft and League of Legends games have a chance of 1% to be decided before they even started. That surely will increase viewer numbers, competitive spirit and of course will help that the best team wins. People have every right to whine about this mechanic. It's only there so bad players rarely get a lucky shot that wins them a fight they would have lost otherwise. That in itself isn't a bad thing, but in a competitive PvP game it is around as fun as cheaters - the only difference is that the former doesn't get you banned.

I suddenly agree with more buffs to BBs. We know WG balances with a hammer - so the more OP they are now, the more unplayable they will be after the nerf hammer hits. And BBs really deserve to be useless for a year after having reigned supreme for so long.

Just 1 problem - BBs are already overpowered. So nerfing anything that hurts them is bad. Anything that hurts them needs buffs. AA of BBs should get halfed, all torpedo protection should get removed from BBs, BB ruddershift and turning circle should get doubled across the board, gun traverse should get doubled for anything below 60sec/180deg, and we bring back double TB midway/essex. Then BBs might be close to balanced. Oh no, forgot one thing - BB citadel damage is 100% against BBs, and 50% against cruisers.

Nice post, but yeah uh - CVs always were a tiny niche with lots of effort for WG. Big cost, little benefit. Developing a sub-game in a game (which is the carrier RTS) costs lots of resources. Since maybe 10% played CVs when they were strong, it was pretty much already cost-inefficient to do anything with CVs. But BBs whined every hour of every day and since they are so popular they got buffed beyond redemption and CVs nerfed into crap. The simple fact that CV can't be fixed with a tiny patch is enough that I doubt anything will ever happen. A rework is again a lot of work and right now we have not even half the player base on CVs than last year. WG would be stupid to spend a penny on them. Best case they put in tons of work and make them great and fun, and then they lose twice as many players as they gained, because people like me will make baddies in other ships feel "cheated" because they did mistakes and got punished. They should just add 1 bot CV per side every match and remove them as playable class, then they got their WW2 naval feeling and planes raining from the sky, since AA can be buffed even more. Balance issues are gone as well. Matchmaking issues (good vs. bad CV player) are gone too. BBs having to fear anything in the game is gone too, so the big ship lovers can stomp everyone who wants to play a class that requires more than 2 APM (2x leftclick per minute). US cruisers will feel useful, because there is a CV every game! (it just can't hurt anyone anyway, so US cruisers still suck, but ssssshhh). And we still have the dynamic gameplay a CV provides, just without anyone having to fear taking 1 point of damage from them.

Yes and BB survival rate is too high. WG admitted that repeatedly. This means HE/Fire isn't too strong, but CVs and DDs are too weak at deleting BBs. Cruisers delete DDs easily with radar and big HE salvos. BBs regularly oneshot CAs on a 30sec CD. Yet it's not okay for a CV with 4min+ cooldown to do 75% of the HP of a BB that is out of position and alone? Yeah, balance. Conclusion: Nerf BBs, leave CAs alone, buff DD/CV.

Oh wow, Battleships are BROKENLY OVERPOWERED, no class stands a real chance against them and STILL we have the dedicated whiners wanting them to be EVEN MORE OP. Unbelievable. Bring back 5 TB Hakuryu, now. Then BBs have something to cry about as I delete them from the game before they can fire 1 salvo. Also WG, please please bring back double TB Essex/Midway. I just want to harvest some salty BB tears when suddenly there is a ship that can threaten them again.

This approach is a bit too black and white. While generally correct, there is an issue with it. And that is how unicums play. They avoid what they can't beat like the plague and especially cruisers and DDs can avoid the slightly slower BBs, not because of speed advantage (lel, 32knts BBs are a joke anyway), but because of concealment. The game shouldn't be balanced around people hiding from each other. If BBs weren't this OP and citadels weren't so easy to land and wouldn't do this insane damage, cruisers could face them and have a better chance of doing something (still not winning, because well, BB SHOULD win, just not this hard). The "hide from the OP BB and abuse caps to win" tactic doesn't get stronger when BBs are weaker. It just changes the game from "hide from the OP BB" to "actually interact with it" which is a lot more fun for both sides. Basically - nerfing BBs would make encounters with them more fun. DDs would actually pose a threat and CAs could outplay them if they are a lot better and not get citadelled by a potato because bow/aft citadels are so easy to do. Hiding from the BB would give the same results as now (since no interaction happens, most nerfs are irrelevant) but any encounters would end up more balanced and fun for everyone.

Think before making smartass comments. KDR is insanely irrelevant, because it's not representative. Survival rate is the stat you are looking for. I play CVs so my KDR is much higher. People who sit at the back and only killsteal and deal zero damage while running from anything that damages them are useless, but their KDR is probably good. The only stat that is actually somewhat close to what matters is winrate, because in the end, you can deal low damage, you can die a lot, you can always get your kills stolen by bad luck, but if your winrate is high, it means that you're still somehow making your team win.

Most BBs are overperforming. If I don't get 100k damage in a T6+ BB I feel like a failure. And Bismarck - if anyone says it's not at the absolute edge of OP doesn't know how to play. 5 TB Hakuryu was about the same OPness as Bismarck. This ship has no weakness at all and many strengths. The AA is respectable, torpedo protection is okay, turning circle is tiny, secondaries are literally the best in the game, guns are powerful with fast reload, citadelling it is nearly impossible, bow on it doesn't take damage from AP, even broadside it takes a fraction of what an Amagi or NC would take. Yes it's superstructure is large so it's not hard to set on fire, but what is that? A weakness? You must be kidding. What should counter this beast of a broken ship? With a 10 point captain it's very hard to attack in a CV, it's secondaries, turning circle and HYDRO - I MEAN FREAKING HYDRO, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! - make it a horrible target for DDs. It's secondaries outrange a DDs torpedos. All BBs need a nerf at the current state and KM BBs need three or four. WG tried to make them brawlers, but ended up just powercreeping them to OP level. Fast turning guns, absolute citadel protection and tight turning circles up to T9 are all good things for brawlers to have - but WG forgot to build in destinct weaknesses so they actually underperform outside of a brawl. It's like making the new KM DD line have the guns of the RU DDs, with the reload of the US DDs and the fire chance of IJN DDs, while they also have 12km torps that are 70knt fast and deal 20k damage. Aside from smoke they also get defensive AA fire and hydro so they can't be countered. Edit: I'm mostly talking T6-8 here, above that BBs aren't that ridiculously overpowered, just a little.