Bladezfist

You can also go to fast and still only get one smoke puff, you can have a smoke puff that does not spawn around your ship and spawns behind it (although I have not seen this one recently, only when the line first came out). You can be going within the correct speed window and still only get the one puff. I went a long while without having this by constantly slowing to exactly 16.5 kts and then pushing the button but recently that gives me at least a 33% chance of only getting one puff.

The counterpart of the British CL people seem to think is most OP is equally OP though. So it's not exactly pay to win.

Definitely the Hatsuharu, 6km torpedos and a 6.6km detectability range plus a fairly weak main battery makes it a very hard ship to play stock.

Average stats aren't bad, they are average. He still performs better with them than IJN and US BBs past tier 6 so his point stands.

That's why they will also nerf fire chance and buff fire prevention, err hmm.

I'm more worried about fire prevention. As a fire starter you always want to be getting hits on the superstructure as you do the most damage, if they are actually just making it so there can only be one fire on the superstructure we should see a really major decrease in damage from the source (for CA and DDs) that best counters this ship.

Agreed with the above, as I've said before in this thread. It's not hard to dodge torpedoes without hydro in this thing. It really does not need hydro at all.

It is easy to adapt to changes in the meta but it might mean you need to play something different. It is easy to counter in HE spam cruisers and gunboat DDs. It is very hard to counter if you are playing a torpedo boat, the worst BB target at its tier and it makes up a ton of the player pool.

And often forces DDs and BBs to burn repair party as well. Making them more vulnerable to your comrades.

There are only five data points, the data is flawed and I admit that in my post. I just noticed a pattern and made a hypothesis that it continues as you go down the list. "I looked at the stats of the leading players regarding all t8 BB" That is just how I interpreted your claim.

You said: So I wanted to verify and found that the for the top players who have played all three the opposite is true, they were all better in the Bismarck and it ranged from 10 - 30% more damage. I'm not sure why you are struggling to keep up when you were the one who brought up the top player stats thing. I was just recreating your experiment for which you did not explain your criteria, methods or post any screenshots, yet you attack me for just not posting the screenshots.

Thank god for that, maybe we can have a proper discussion now. If you have a problem with my findings then try it yourself, go through the top player list (All). Exclude people who have not played all 3 ships and then look at which ship has 10 - 30% more damage than the others.

Maybe if you read the messages you reply to you will have less of an issue figuring that out yourself. I literally specify my criteria, entire dataset, the flaw coming from a lack of samples and the results...

He has got a point with the AP damage, Bismarck is a nice juicy target when playing a RN cruiser due to the large superstructure making it easier to rack up damage. Then on the other hand of that equation you have the Izumo which seems impossible to penetrate due to the lack of superstructure.

The Montana is always a nice sight when in a Minotaur, so easy to wrack up crazy amounts of damage and that is the situation the Minotaur is best in. Defending an area, it's real weakness is that is not that fast compared to you (it will gain 3kts on you) and if a Minotaur sets up at a cap at the start of the game that goes uncontested it struggles to get into a good position when there are ships now in a position to detect it while it is re-positioning. This ship is absolutely hopeless at chasing a battle due to the low range and huge arcs. You really want to just set up and have people push within 12km of you, in other words you rely on an aggressive enemy team or some risky re positioning to do well in this ship.

Looking at the top players on warships today and then excluding any who have not played all 3 silver BBs and it seems that they do approximately 10 - 30% more damage in the Bismarck over other ships. I did not check as thoroughly as needed, only 5 data points, so many of the top players only play 1 or 2 ships. But Flamu, FTD, BloodLegend, MrGrind and Sander93 all do significantly better in the Bismarck which is a trend I expect continues down this list. Have not found a single entry that meets this criteria and does not fit the pattern.

I'll have to take your word for that It might be a necessary step to make the playerbase healthy at the high tiers though. Adding something like repair would also aid the average joe much more than a guy making no mistakes.

Either that or the other (non RN) T8 cruisers need a buff to survivability.

On topic, I've never felt like the Bismarck needed hydro to perform well either. It's so easy to dodge torps in that thing with target acquisition + vigilance that hydro is mostly used as an aggressive tool when I want to push a ship out of it's smoke screen to free up a cap. I never really feel that vulnerable to torpedos for a number of reasons. It has a good rudder shift time and DDs don't want to be within 10km of you, especially if you are pushing a cap with a friendly DD. If their reasoning behind the ship getting hydro was indeed as a defensive measure then I think it is totally unnecessary.

Do you really believe that? You seem to derail any thread about this particular BB with personal attacks that are based on nonsense. A few tips for making decent conversation : 1) Stop making stuff up and then quoting it / responding to it. 2) Stop editing quotes. EDIT: 3) Save face by just not talking anymore.

You have a serious issue conversing with people. All I said was that secondaries are not it's only advantage over its peers and you think that is a reasonable response.

The only advantage the Bismarck has over it's peers is secondary range? Lets not be silly.

Ugh, You would have to eat it at least 200 times!

You are the one who tried to use the Arizona's stats to prove that the New Mexico was a good ship. Not me. All I said in this thread was that I don't like facing German BBs as a battleship and do like facing them as everything else and for some reason me posting stats that prove this to be the case for the tier OP is playing is irrelevant / changing the subject. I don't have a problem admitting when I am wrong, nor do I feel the need to turn this thread into a childish pile of nonsense so with this I'm out.

What does it trade? AA performance (Pretty much irrelevant), look at the two ships citadels, 76MM on the New Mexico vs 115MM on the Arizona. The deck is also stronger.