MS_Surface

So how have you been doing with Kagero? I was thinking of going back to it. I was having some nice battles with F3/8km torpedoes but it was on test server, where things can go weird.

It's only natural that people are stubborn. Do you think players would grind all the way to a Tier X, to have a "playable" ship? All other Tier X ships are really good. Why is it enough for the Tier X IJN DD to be "playable"? Mod 3 torpedoes where changed in a way that, if i want to "play", i'm always forced into detection range. When i go into those positions, the ship lacks the "proper tools" to deal with it. When i say unplayable is because of the fact that i don't really know what role the Shimakaze has right now. It has average torpedoes, bad guns, bad survivability, bad reload, bad turret rotation, bad torpedo detection, bad everything if we compare to other Tier X DDs. Sure it is still playable but most battles i'll be waiting for a time where there's less ships or less radars. CA captains are also learning quickly how to properly use their radars and there will be even more ships with that upgrade i suppose. You know that 12km range is nothing at Tier X. It's not only radars, i have to engage gunboat DDs a lot more times and i will either runaway or sink. Meanwhile that gunboat you found is keeping you always at 13, 14km from ships that you want to launch torpedoes at. That's not something more challenging or exciting. Most battles i will probably get that "weaker buffalo that got away from the herd", land a dozen "random" shells somewhere along the way or just trust in my luck... You can't possibly think that "playable" is an option. If you take 30% of the main battery fire power of a Yamato, it's still "very playable" but doing it is just nonsense. Shimakaze only advantage was torpedoes. It should be nonsense as well. Maybe i'm horribly wrong and there's a special role for the Shimakaze, or a great way to take advantage of almost always having to rush on ships to launch torpedoes but i can't see how. I think you should play a few battles with Kagero with F3/8km torpedoes. I tried it and it's kind of crazy. With every torpedo reload boosts and skill installed, i think you have like 1 minute reload (not sure here)... If you exchange smoke for torpedo reload boost upgrade things can go crazy launching 16 torpedoes in 30 secs at 76knots. The 5.4km detection range is great and having Tier VII ships also help. I would go back to this ship and just forget about Tier X problems but some Kagero captains are saying it's not that good so i'll just wait a while to see. Cheers!

I'm your subscriber and i usually agree with what you say but this video... saying that your viewers (subs...) that complain about Shima nerfs are "full of sh..." and should "evolve" is insulting and obviously, you should expect some nasty feedback. I subbed to your channel because i like the way you comment the videos, because you play well and i think your videos are enjoyable. It's your channel and you do what you want with it but i would think twice before saying certain things. Other than that, i really don't agree with this nerfs being good for anything. If WG increased mod 3 range a bit, nobody would be complaining. ps. Keep up the good work Flamu but please try to go easy on the words. Cheers!

I only said that to remind of that upgrade, only present in Hatsuharo and Kagero, i didn't meant to say it was easy or something. In Tier X, with so many radars, smoke is still important, just not as good as it was. As you say, it's very hard to get into those ranges with a Kagero, now imagine that in a Shimakaze, with worst detection range, more enemy ships with radar, huge DPM in CAs and enemy "gun boat" DDs that have better torpedoes than my "torpedo boat". So at this point captains can have better batles with a Kagero than a Shimakaze.

One more thing that is very important. When captains say all happy that now Shimakaze has 3 options which is great and all you seem to forget that if you have 20km torps, you will use torpedo accel. skill. In any of the other options you will have to pay doubloons to get rid of that skill. If i want to choose any option other than 16km torps (with torp accel skill) i have to pay 450 doubloons to redistribute as 9,6 or 6,4km are unplayable with Shimakaze. So much for options...

Remember, if you choose not to use Smoke (its kind of crippled now) you can have 30sec reload time in Kagero. edit: sure enough i meant a few times during the battle

Maybe it's better to post here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/50088-ship-rebalance/ WG is asking for feedback on new IJN torpedoes.

The main problems i see with IJN torpedoes are: - F3 are simply out of equation for a Shimakaze but i wasn't doing that bad in a Kagero with 8km option and torpedo reload upgrade instead of smoke. I was actually enjoying playing it like that but it's one tier lower than Shimakaze, that makes it easier. The difference here is that Kagero 5.4km detection range is way better than 5.9km of Shimakaze. I found out in the test server how huge this difference can be. - In Shimakaze, i felt "away" from battle, even with mod3 torpedoes without torpedo acceleration skill. A Gearing between enemy fleet and my ship is more than enough to always leave me at 13 or 14km from their fleet. I can't engage a Gearing, even if i did, i would be detected by everyone else. Anyway Shimakaze is not a ship to go sink Gearings, Fletchers and Khabarovsks. So i end up doing something more effective only in the end of the battle, when there's less ships. For me this is a huge limitation since it forces me to always keep 20km torpedoes (16km with skill but too slow and detectable) and i like to play more aggressively while not being suicidal. - Skills. If i choose to play with mod3 torpedoes without acceleration skill, something that it's already bad, i always have to use the 5 point concealment skill. I usually trade that skill for a few others that, together, are more important for me. Now a player that has at least 15 points will be limited to always use concealment skill. That's a big limitation since it represents 5 skill points that i cannot change. - Skills reset - This would only be fair, as most players who are using torpedo acceleration skill, most probably will want to get rid of it, unless they keep 20km range torps... Actually, a few skills would have to be well thought. So it would only be fair to do give a free skill reset for Kagero and Shimakaze owners. I am sure current changes will make most players (give it some time) migrate to the slow, long range torps, trying to minimize the bigger repair costs (that close quarters battles in a Shimakaze would generate) instead of making them take more risks. I think that changing mod 3 torpedoes to 70knots/14km would be a better option. Those who are more aggressive could use torpedo accel. to go wild at 11.2km range, under radar scopes, and benefit from faster torpedoes, "for taking the risk", but not "crazy fast" so it wouldn't be OP. Those who are more conservative could still play their style, but with a bit slower torpedoes (70knots) and at a safer distance, Both types of players would be able to use more adapted skill configurations instead of being limited to certain ones. Another advantage is that players wouldn't be so prone to stay back, launching torpedoes at 16 or 20km range. I think this could only benefit the game and it wouldn't be a "punishment" for IJN High Tier DDs. If i could change ver0.5.5 torpedo config i would only change mod3 to this. Mod 3 - 70knots/14km with skill: 75knots/11.2km and leave the rest as it is. edit: even 67knots/14km with skill: 72knots/11.2 km would be great compared to now (0.5.5) Or, if it's less disruptive to use an already made torpedo model, i would even do fine with, at least, the same torpedoes as the Gearing but dealing more damage, since it's only logical that Shimakaze has better torpedoes and Gearing has better guns and survivability. As i said, this is my opinion. Cheers.

This is just an idea but when a CA activates it's radar, a tiny progress bar line should appear on top or bottom of it's ship dmg progress bar, visible to any friendly ship. This way, some other friendly nearby CA with radar, wouldn't have to "waste" it. Other friendly ships would also benefit from it. Another addition could be a message in chat saying something like "PlayerXY activated Radar". I think it would extend the advantages of radar to the rest of the team and provide more tactical gameplay while promoting more interactivity between players. Cheers!

I mean the attitude. There was a problem with torpedo walls. The overall paranoia that came after gave this problem much more emphasis than it should. I ended up watching BB and CA captains at Tier VII and VIII complaining about "walls of torpedoes". I've seen captains in chat saying stuff like "Destroyer World..." when there was like 4x4 mixed nations DDs. Because of this, a lot of captains, probably the less experienced, started to fear and hide on the first sight of a torpedo or a DD. If a good CA captain wants it, it will hunt down and sink a Shimakaze. The problem now is that they don't even want to try it, they just think "oh zip its a Shimakaze i'll go somewhere else...". Sometimes it's even sad to see... like when i am alone at one side of the map and detect a few enemy BBs and CAs and decide to launch like 2 spreads of torpedoes (just to delay them, to earn time...). Next thng there's 2 BBs and 2 CAs turning back, and i'm like "What? Why are they running away? Do they think i can launch torpedoes every 10 seconds or so?". This happens so many times... As for the ship, for how long Shimakazes have 15 torpedoes? What's different now? There are surely a few options to deal with this situation. Nerfing the ship is the worst. If ship is OP it should be nerfed. If there's too many similar ships in a battle, it's a MM problem and MM should be fixed. so instead of limiting number of ships per battle or finding a solution that wouldn't punish Shimakazes, WG just nerfed the hell out of it. Nerfing a Tier X ship is not the same as nerfing a Tier III. Captains have put a lot of time into grinding to a Tier X. That's why it should only be considered just in case everything else fails. You see what i mean? Compare a Gearing to a Shimakaze. The Gearing has close to everything better than a Shimakaze, while maintaining it's long range/fast torpedoes. How can you say the Shima was a little bit too strong? It was for sure strong at launching torpedoes, like a Gearing is strong with it's "insta-fire" and "insta-turrets". Now, the Shimakaze is not the best even at launching torpedoes, it's specialization. So what good is it for now?

Well i usually launch the minimum necessary and always try to keep one spread ready, but that's subject to personal preference. About the Isokaze/Shimakaze. I wasn't comparing the two ships. I was comparing the attitude towards DDs in each of the tiers, Shimakaze may launch 15 torpedoes at once, but by the time it reloads, Isokaze has already launched about 36 torps, and this with 7km range at 68knots speed. Believe me it's much harder for low tier BBs to dodge 68knot torpedoes than in tier X and it's much easier to get sunk by only 2 or 3. If i want to sink a full HP Yamato in tier X with a Shimakaze, i will have to use a lot more torpedoes than that. It's easy to say "You can't compare such different tiers, it's fool of noobs etc." but it's the attitude that counts. I just wish that some CA and BB captains were forced to play Tier IV and V for a while, just to remember how to play (don't take this personally, i'm talking about noob CA and BB captains at tier X). I noticed you don't have battles at Tier X but when you do maybe you'll understand better what i mean. Especially if you grind to Shimakaze. Cheers ps. oops i got the wrong quote, but it was a reply for you so it's the same.

I agree with you, my problem is that with the config i wanted, i still had 1 skill point to use, so i just put it there. When i get the 17th point there will be no Expert Loader. That's why i edited my reply and said he could switch for others. Cheers!

It depends also on how you want to play, My Arp Hiei is like this (while i don't get another skill point...): 1 Expert Loader Basic Fire Training Basics of Survivability Situation Awareness 2 Expert Marksmanship 3 Vigilance High Alert 4 Advanced Fire Training --------------------------------- There's a lot of good configurations, you must choose what's best for your play style i guess. Edit: you can remove Expert Loader and High Alert and use Survivability Expert if you rather have +2K HP instead of -10% reload damage control party and -50% reload time when shell type is switched. I don't know but Fire Prevention doesn't look like it does much... but it's hard to tell.

Since when a Shimakaze launches walls of torpedoes? That i know it's the number of Shimakazes that creates the problem. Shimakazes are in the game for a long time and they already had 15 torpedoes. WG may be accounted for MM but those who got more players interested in Shimas were CA and BB captains with it's constant whining about how OP the ship was. If new players start to hear this stuff they will think "Jeez everybody is complaining that this ship is so OP, i want one too!". Sure i don't like to be in a BB getting spammed by some CA that i can't detect, it's frustrating, but its part of the game. As some captains got frustrated with the fact that they couldn't have enemy DDs detected all the time, they started complaining. Now, a lot of BB and CA captains simply refuse to "play". They go into "survival mode" and runaway like little pussies. They don't even try so nothing will ever be enough for them. I remember a battle where i was in a Kagero or a Shima (dont remember), supported by a CA. As soon as i found an enemy DD, the CA that was supporting me turned back, got behind an Island and just waited without firing a single shell! I got the DD but i was sunk by a nearby CA. I said to the guy "Why the hell did you runaway and hide behind an island instead of supporting me? What tactic is that?" and the guy replied "at least i am alive...". How much of a moron can someone be? Unfortunely this is the kind of stuff i see nowadays. 1 Isokaze is capable of launching much more torpedoes during a battle than a Shimakaze and it can get near CAs and BBs and get away with it. It's Tier IV i know, things are different but the point is, Isokaze has much more advantages than a Shima for it's tier, yet, what i see is BB captains going straight at them, let alone CAs! I don't know, i think some players leave their balls behind when they get to High Tiers. Maybe it's the fear of losing credits. Then again if you don't want to lose credits at High Tiers buy a BB.... In a Shimakaze i've had battles where i sunk 2 ships got like 300K XP, a few shells, a cap or so and end up losing credits instead of earning. I think there's this general feeling among some BB and CA captains that those who play Shimakazes get loads of credits etc... what a joke. I'm sure WG will review ranges and speeds. I hope so at least.

Survivability is 4 points... You need 17 points for that config... I wasn't very impressed with Manual Fire Control for AA Armament to be honest. I wouldn't exchange it for Survivability or Advanced Fire Training. I was impressed with Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armament in the test server but i was using Tier VII+ ships, that get -60% dispersion instead of -15% of lower tiers. At higher tiers you also get an upgrade that gives you -20% secondaries dispersion. I was surprised by the Amagi, all secondary centric, firing -80% dispersion secondaries... Jeez it had better aim than i could have with main guns... it's great for agressive players, playing with Tier VII+ ships. I almost got a full HP DD without using main guns. I don't use it with Arp Hiei because i only get -15% dispersion, it's not worth 5 points.

Before battle i have 236692 credits ...after battle: Received: 66440 Auto Repair : 58000 Ammunition Auto-Resupply: 3555 Total +4885 credits So i should now have 236692+4885=241577 instead i only have 219077 (minus 17615) What "expense" is this? The battle after that one i earned (total) 105259, payed 58000+3285 (repair, ammun.). "profit" 43974 So 219077+43974=263051. Instead i got 240551 (minus 22500...) I had 0 fines/compensation in both battles, i'm not accusing or anything, it may be in front of my eyes but i can't find the description of that value. Cheers

Yep i've done some battles for testing and values are correct. I think what happened is i saw the credits i had, then, before battle, i must have mounted cammo by instinct or something like that since i always use cammo but i almost never use auto resupply. Somehow i've managed to do this a couple a times... Thank for replying, cheers!

The maps are great and very playable but i think that they shoul be asymmetric. It would be more interesting if each team had to use different tactics according to each side of the map. It would feel also like it's 2 different maps, with different tactics. Mirrored maps get boring faster because of that. Isn't it better to have the chance of playing the same map in a different way, depending on wich side you spawn? If symmetry does help improve gameplay or balance, i rather have mirrored maps but it takes away a bit of fun, that's all.

So again an easy fix for the torpedoes crazyness. WG is on the verge of making the Shimakaze the most useless Tier X ship in the game. This is a huge lack of respect from WG towards Shimakaze players as they are certainly not guilty for the mess in MM. Instead of creating a way of attracting players to other ships, WG just goes "Oh to hell with Shimakaze owners, cripple the heck out of it so that players don't grind to it, some of those who have it may sell it, when they found out it's useless now, it's faster and cheaper than dealing properly with it". This is an amazingly unfair decision, given the time i (and many others) have put into griding to this ship. What's the tactic now? What's my role in battle? Feed CAs so you can make a huge noise about how great the radar implementation was? Come on, you can't be serious about this. The ship Shimakaze was never the problem. A Shimakaze captain doesn't launch "walls of torpedoes". Torpedo walls from several Shimakazes is an OP thing. The sheer amount of Shimakazes was OP but to my knowledge, individually, Shimakazes never created gameplay issues. If this changes make it through: I just don't let myself get overly impressed with eye-candy numbers and words like 76knots or 81knots, or 1 extra spread of torpedoes or torpedo boosts... If i sink, these numbers don't mean a thing. I'm sure WG will, at least, change a bit these values. I don't want to be forced to always launch torpedoes inside CAs radar range (looks like it's really the main purpose of the nerf...). It's ridiculous and i didn't grind to Shimakaze to be fed to other classes. I also don't need 80knots torpedoes with 20km range, but enough is enough. I was really happy with 5.5 changes but this messed it all up for me. I hope this is a test to see reactions or something, if it is, this is my reaction. Cheers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Huum... it is not nerfed enough. We must nerf it even more. Other classes are complaining it's still not very easy to sink Shimakazes!"

I think weather effects really add to the immersion and limited visibility creates unpredictability, i can already see some unexpected close quarters combat! What about radars, planes and hydros? Do they have any kind of advantage under limited visibility conditions? Cheers

I also had an issue in Trap map. I beached myself in an invisible island... it was no bug or freeze. The ship moved a bit to the sides but not forward, as if it was against a wall. I even tried to ask other captains to go there and check but english is not really used, at night, in the public test server. I posted this situation last night in the "New Maps" thread. Maybe you should as well. Do you have the replay? I always forget to enable replays after installing new clients.

Fortunely, you can turn it off in the settings menu. It's the last checkbox at top right corner. It's called "reduced fire effects" or somethign like that. Beats me why WG would introduce such a childish feature but if i can turn it off i guess it's fine...

Either it was a terrible bug or i hit an invisible island or terrain in Trap map, square F4 (B cap). I was going S>N along the left of the island to the East in B cap when the collision alarm turned on, i was nowhere near the Island but i continued and ended up with an instant stop at 500m or so from the island, still facing N. When i tried to go forward again, the ship moved a bit to the side, but not forward. Unfortunely, at the time i didn't remember i don't have replays enabled on public test client. I'll play a few more battles, just to check it out. Cheers edit: so i've been caught by a sandbank? lol WG even tipped players about it, i guess i forgot. Just one thing, if it's underwater, it's not a sandbank, it's a shoal or whatever it's called. It's called a sandbank when it rises over the water, but that's just minor stuff.

Why would WG do something about WG? Are you people nuts? Well they won't change it and they certainly don't want to. I was in a Shimakaze with full HP and got teamkilled by a Kutusov Tkiller payed 50K fine. I pay 150K "fine" to WG, (why would i do that?!?!?) So each time someone is team killed, actually WG earns quite a lot with it. In one hour, in all servers, how many TKs happen? 1.000? 5.000? Can you imagine how much WG earns every day with TKs?? You may think it's nonsense but WG actually earns quite a lot of REAL MONEY with TK. I can explain how, if you people don't get it. The report/compliment system is another joke, it's just sand that WG is throwing in our eyes. It's not meant (never was) to punish players or congratulate them. "Karma" is just bull crap. The only reason for the report/compliment system to exist is because WG gathers data from it to send to match making. It's kind of obvious but some people still think that they have a report system. How blind must one be, after watching the options offered on reporting? So i just hope WG doesn't "subtract" (i'm just trying to avoid the correct word...) more credits from my account in such a greedy and "criminal" way. I payed EUROS to BUY DOUBLOONS that i EXCHANGED WITH CREDITS. SO it's REAL MONEY you are "SUBTRACTING" from my account, without my authorization, without any reason at all. I DO MIND TO PAY CREDITS (THAT I PAYED WITH EUROS) TO WG WHEN I GET TK. DON'T DO IT AGAIN. I swear on my life that things will get crazy and will escalate very quickly on every social network, if this happens to me again. Trust me. It's amazing how WG staff and devs NEVER talk about this. It's also very obvious why... I would certainly like to see WG explaining why they charge 3/4 of the ship value to players that get teamkilled. I would pay for an acceptable explanation other than the idiotic "saylor meals". I've said this before, i will say it as many times as i have to. I'll just do it in other places and in a diferent way next time.