havaduck

[edited]

Sorry Marvin but there was a time premiums were supposed to be for captain training and getting raw xp to convert to free xp (at least thats the picture I got with all the preaching that this game is not about p2w ...). Its not like the free camos, the lower repair and higher earnings and the ability to stick a experienced captain into a ship isnt downright a huge enough advantage? Now a lot of lamers players of this game are downright even expecting p2w-ships or else "there would be no point to them". CG WG, truly amazing work! EG, I present to you this gem from yesterday: n/c ...... (alternatively read the Prinz Eugen threads: no p2w? no point to the ship ...) Ok lets talk about unwarranted buffs: - Op-erator wasnt OP enough? So lets give it softer matchmaking. MM change no direct buff? I guess if they would put Yamato at T 1 its not a buff but "only a MM change". - Kutizov was only as strong (or even stronger) than the unnerfed (talking about the very last nerf, for they have been a lot) Mogami - which btw had to be raped haaaaaaaaard? Buff it even further! It needs to be better without a captain than a (unnerfed) Mogami WITH a 10 pts captain. yeah ... - Apparently (silver) T 8 cruiser can never die fast enough or be too shitty ........ or should I rather say: Be totally balanced in the eyes of WG. Atago wasnt (not even close) to the worst performing T 8 cruiser and yet it was extremly buffed. Interestingly enough now all the other T 8 cruiser are uniformly as shitty as Atago was, but when its a silver ship its ok, isnt it? I know WG is the pure master of "doublethink" for a silver cruisers and a permium cruiser of the same tier performing roughly the same is BOTH very buff-worthy and totally balanced. - Tirpitz because being easy to play generally, un-citadel-able and comes with a close-up-I-win button; all the wallet warriors driving on are still getting rekt in high tiers so it needs further buffs, again and again, till the silver peasants have no chance to offend the p2w masterrace any more. - lets not forget one point: there is no need for buffs if the ship is p2w by design ...... like Op-erator, or Kutuzov, or Gremlin, or Texas, or Molotov, or Indianapolis, or ..... And you know what: I bought one premium ship as a test because it was dirt cheap - and I am regretting it. The Omaha class in gerneral is now not very good in my eyes, but thats not the point; which is the p2w of Murmansk compared to Omaha. -> Start the de-p2w of this game with the damn ridiculous p2w-AP-shells on Murmansk (and dont forget the torps as well).

This was actually a friendly offer, but oh well, lets got the stats route if you insist: - Yes I do get kills, my profile is public and it takes only a few clicks. - You are a new player and looking at a. your co-op numbers, you actually do get more kills than you should judging from the raw damage numbers. b. your pvp numbers are not even to be called tentative since they are so low with only 5 matches played. You could-should-probably have gotten _1_ kill total in those 5 matches and so 0 is perfectly in the spread that can be expected. - Conclussion is that you ran immediately of on to the forum to open a whine thread after just a couple of game. In the grand scheme of both co-op and pvp the ammount of kills you got is even too high. So if you want to stop the kill stealing, you might want to start with yourself and actually earn those kills. - Last point: I never did "looking down at you" but after this display of yours I certainly started the snickering

I certainly found at least one person ... I propose a solution to you: turn on replays (just google for the how to - its easy or use Alsains modpack, which also has that option), play a few matches and post those replays. When I got the time, I watch it and tell you if _!_from my perspective_!_ there was any kill stealing. This comes complete with a reasoning to why or why not it was killstealling. Deal?

Revenues based on percentage of damage done to the target - that should be enough. No, wait ... Because "Killstealers" are the least of the problems you face in this game ...

This guy is golden! Having a p2w OP ship would be totally ok, but since its a silver peasant ship, that any unwashed hand can touch and stear, I want it nerved. I cant say I have no words because, in fact, I do actually have quite a few "choice-words" available right now ......

(Obligatory remark about Pensa being one of those very few cruisers remotely acceptable) Remember that ridiculous 3,5k base xp mission in the GNB? Good because I didnt carry hard enough and got even Kraken denied. Sad Pensa had to go hungry ... and now I have to flog myself for the shame to fail the goal of a simple GNB-mission yet again (without p2w usage - or excessive capping ... or hell even capping at all in this case) ^^ Bonus objective: Lets see if you can spot the floating battery that was camping behind me the whole match - ignoring chat, the objective, the minimap, playing for a victory and everything and everyone else ofc. Its really impressive when those "people" only manage to go south of the B-line in the last minute of the match ...... If you need a hint: He is on my team and still alive post-battle (and probably still full HP ofc). €: Now that I have my Haguro I can go back to co-op.

damn double ... should be a edit.

Deck launchers are not inside/behind any noteworthy defence/structure in this game, thats why they are called deck launchers. (I know IRL a deck launcher explosion particularly on those IJN cruisers with their oxygen torps was no laughing matter). Ofc WG could take whatever arcady approach they want on it but ..... So ( playing Advocatus diaboli here): Yes, Deck launches get incapacitated/destroyed. Yes its a citadel if the shell just goes clean trough and penetrates further into the ship (and those submerged tubes wouldbe/are just a huge weakspots on any ship). Yes, there are general magazine detonations of the fatal kind, triggered by shells and torpedoes, in this game. ;) Even before their use in actual sea-battles was limited. Like I said they had their uses when surprise raiding a Harbor (Emden did that) .... but generally you want torps? Get a something actually suited to be equipped with them an not some shitty single submerged tube. And most importantly: I dont think it would be good/add to the game.

Oh yes plz make those submerged tubes optional ..... so I can get crazy (citadel) damage when hitting them with a shell or torps + torpedoroom amunition detonations/floodings - on all those choosing to use them. You have to understand that around/after WWI torp protection was/had to be increased dramaticly. Now immagine building an impenetrable fortress with a nice ravine of water running around. So not only you are going to let the draw bridge down and pulling the portcullis up ..... no actually in addition to all that you are planting a big a$$ bomb right inside your gatehouse and are handing the detonator to the enemy. Honestly they had some hits ... like Rodney on Bismarck or on things like stationary targets in a harbor, .... but all in all they were obsolete BS still fitted on ships - just like with rams on bow of ships for many years after the Battle of Lissa.

+ And this isnt? ;) So we buff the Kawachii to do "at least somewhat ok" against a Kongo, then guess what we would need to do with those T1 and 2 cruisers not even mentioning Mikasa, to stand a chance against RoidRage-Kawachii? I am also not wanting to know what a T4 Karlsruin "buffed to be acceptaqble against a Cleveland, Budyoni etc" would then do to Shi7bergs/Dresdens/Emdens ...... DDs in general ... Honestly this generates the mother of all Snowballeffects ...... but a BS-y one. ;)

It does and I might add a few thing even: - more fun, like watching a match together. Even if you get taken out you can cheer on an ally-citadel or [edited]at rng if he misses. - less invertebrates hiding (if you division with non-cowards ofc) - I dont play that differently with or without division, so I have to disagree on the "playing aggressively" part at least a bit. Especially the last point: I trust that divsion members will try their best to play for victory, while not throwing their ships away on a "rescue mission" for me. But ofc still throwing their ships away and accepting certain death in an attempt to eek out a victory. So far I have never been disappointed with the forumites. On the other side I treat the none-division members all the same: They might be reliable players trying their best (which doesnt imply that have to be very good at the game) or cowards. Usually you can tell immediately in some cases ....... like those people that spend the fist 5-8 minutes hiding behind a island on "Land of Fire" (bonus if top tier BB) and thus are completely out of position with their guns missing when the battle starts. Taking the longest route to go nowhere in particular is also a clear indication. Thus divisioning takes out the most frustrating part of the game: idots, bots, cowards, afkers, a$$nifers, parasites (as there are less slots for those on your team) while adding friendly faces you can have fun with during the match in their place. Dont worry I didnt take as an attack, but its right could be used for stattpadding - if that is, what one is after. The same goes for using certain ships which are usually p2w-premiums. Ofc if you divison with the "wrong" persons like Loran (which is OP even in an Atlanta/Krasny Krim on Ocean ) you might run out of things to shoot. Again there is a difference in playing in a division and without, but people probably wont change their "playstyle" completely ..... like a IJN max range "Sniper" wont change his approach _just_ because he is in a division. I am using this stats as an example: They are not that different. Division ones are ofc buffed, but you can see even without checking that different Class-Mix was used solo/division because the differences in Winrate, damage and earned xp are not proportionate to each other. Aaaaw sad - I was especially curious for an answer on the Mikasa part ..... like going to 2 km but having the 2ndaries turned off for more displayed bravery. Roughly the same here. But I have to disagree on one point: the hitrate comes into play in this thread because is provides an additional piece of information, after the OP had to open the thread and complaining about others throwing a "chat triage" about "him being coward" (you obviously dont do that because you hear it once or twice ...). (others being not so stellar damage and all of a sudden way better hitrate but still not so stellar damage on US/UK ships of the same tier - so all things combined add up to a _likely_ picture). For example: your hitrate on spotterplane ships and damage dont add up (as in correspond), so they point to a different answer. Like if we look at Winrates over a few of those BBs. ;) Damage and K/D alone are can also be misleading. Imagine a a$$snifer that no matter what will stay behind his teammates, but not necessarily camps at 20 km. (If skilled with aiming) he might have a good damage rating and even excellent K/D ..... but the winrate in this case should be competitively lacking (overall!, not just on one unfortunate ship) because he doesnt play the objective. Those a$$snifers usually will, no matter the circumstance, not "risk" getting damaged; even if it would depend on him to make the difference in a question of victory and defeat.

Dont try to evade the subject and talk about the 17-18 % hitrate + low damage on those ships that actually DO have range and the speed to keep lobbing them shells from that range for an entire match. The problem is not the 24-25 % on US ships or the damage number by itself, that would be "OK", its the 17 % + damage you get from you "getting closer" with those IJN BBs of yours (read: tell your grandma). So tell me do you get those 17 % form staying around 10 km? Do you play US ships from 6 km then? And what about 24-25 % and still 38k damage in Arizona, Warspite, Texas, NM ..... thats the same 38k you got on 17 % Fuso. How can that be with hitting way more shells? Fuso might be an exeption ..... what about 17 % in Kongo and Myogi - curiously also" ships with range and speed". Your problem is that I play this game too and the answer is way to simple: On ships that "dont have the range" you simply stay out of even your own range (which is US BB! long range anyway) until your team either has won or lost the battle. Thus trying to feast on the leftovers on a win or get corned like a rat and forced to fight/keep running on a defeat. Its not a digit or single stat alone, its the the combined picture you get when putting them together + coming on the forum and whining about "a chat tirade" complaining that you are, and I might quote: All of indications by itself could be easily dismissed, could be even misleading and dont tell much by themselves - but all of them together + forum whine ... well again, I wouldnt put a wage on how bravely you try to fight the enemy ....rather Sir Robin-style. And again talking about reading and understanding those statistic this add perfectly to the picture of camping the whole match in the back and then - when cornered like a rat + the whole enemy team descending on you - then and only then, because of lack of options, actually putting up a fight and getting some kills with the 2ndary battery. You might also add that you are comparing 29 kills with 2ndaries in 840 BB battles (2300 total) VS 39 kills with 2ndaries in 839 BB battles (1812 total) ... + the fact that you have 14 battles in a Mikasa. Should I proceed or is it obvious enough now?

HE (so far) only penetrates for 1/6 of the diameter. Experience shows that 6 " Guns with 1" of penetration cant penetrate 1" "armor" (well everything is armor in this game, although those 1" parts are considered unarmored in, for example, the all-or-nothing armor-scheme) ..... yeah WG at its best. In reality the 150 and 152 mm guns with 25,3p mm HE penetration cant penetrate 25 mm armor plating. Mogamis 155 mm with 25,83p mm HE penetration can and will. This is also the reason that the russian bias p2w-ship Kutizov and the normal russian bias Chapayev all of a sudden received 26 mm minimum armor, thus making them immune to Mogami 155 mm HE while not altering AP or other HE balance .... yeah WG again , cant have glorious cold-war "sikrit arkeifes" ships fall to interwar-period-ricefield-irrigation-guns; (also Mogami 155 mm is never to shitty or raped enough in WGs eyes). So when firing at a distance at a target that does changes in speed and/or heading regularly, its only natural that with your light shells, long flighttimes and steep fall angles you will hit the ship with less shells in total, and then again not the very few, small, and-in-between parts that are actually vulnerable. Now add in the broken damage model per se that may or may be not stretch into HE as well + depletion mechanic and voila: You got lots of HE shells that do jack-shi7. The only real thing you can do with small calibre HE shells is enlisting in the shitty HE-Fire-Lottery that might or might not net you some damage, which the target (and we are speaking about a BB here) can heal up easily. ........ that all said ........ Tirpitz SS is one of the more vulnerable targets with 6" HE, but that doesnt change the fact that you may go empty handed when you are forced to shoot HE due to angling or long range AP fire being unable to penetrate. A real exercise in futility with small calibre HE would be 32 mm ships like the Izumo .....

Hm 20-25 % hitrate on "low range" US and UK BBs that are also not so good (because slow) at running away. 17-18 % hitrate on "I-have-the-range" IJN BBs that are also faster and thus better at running away. Damage numbers in conjunction with hitrates indicates a case of "just watches while camping and lets his team die" + "only fights when cornered like a rat at the end, when the match is already decided" - which would also perfectly correspond with those hitrates. Sorry to break it to you, but if I would have to make a guess: I would probably join the crowd calling you out your camping trip of occasionally lobbing and missing shells while taking the longest route possible to go nowhere in particular, while your team fights and dies ........ and I didnt get to have School holidays for quite a few years now.

A few thing here: 1. buff Kawachii? yeah so fine against Kongo but then against T 2 Mikasa, against T 2 cruisers - or hell even against T 1 cruisers if we go through the + 2 mm for all ..... I heavily call BS on that. Buff everything? I call BS on that. 2. I rather play (and did a lot) of NY against Colo than WY or Myogi against NY or Kongo ....... let alone WY against NM ....... I call BS on that. Guess there is a pattern coming up. ^^ 3. The thing with p2w premium ships is that they are p2w ships. NY vs Scharnorst getting I-win-buttoned is no worse than NM vs Tirpitz we allready have ... and complies with the +2 you love so much. ;) I would take on the situation by removing the p2w not building stuff around having p2w in the first place. They should really use the MM on grossly OP ships to tone them down a little bit ...... like OPerator.

Oh I can and would help; the simple problem is that your "question" is boiling down to exactly the same as a lot of others: - phlegmatic whining - to which you will get a blunt and unphlegmatic answer. - negating the advantages you have - negating the fact that you will and should die if you screwed up or the game going down hill - negating the fact that high tier CV have a ridiculous survival rate anyway. - you only have 2 enemies in a high tier CV: The opossing CV and the CV-Interface screwing your play up. - there is actually nothing wrong Go ahead and search this forums for answers BBs drivers got when they turned their "Torps are so OP" to "What should I do against torps - cant evade them". Not that the phlegmatic massage of Torp-OPnes changed but they tried a different approach, just like you, while still ignoring the fact that when you straight line, get ambushed around a island, ........ or, yes, even get cought in a CV in ocean, you should rightfully die. Doesnt it give you the slightest hint that nobody is adding something different to this thread than "stay with your fleet" and "keep as hidden as possible" and "try to throw them of with taking alternate routes with your planes" and "spot ships sneaking trough for you teammates to intercept them"? Wisdom is fast, but cant catch you I guess ...... So lets dissect a little bit: Taiho default concealment from sea: 14,6. Admiral Hipper default concealment 14,2 km, Roon default 14,4. OMG Taiho unplayable ........ because its not like the Carrier could and should stay a few km behind the Hipper and the rest of his fleet. A IJN DD with his better concealment has to basically stay right inside you own fleet to be both concealed from your carrier and be able to torp you. + You allways had SA - and now get it even for free - that actually tells you when you are spotted. You should then maybe stop the damage whoring for a little, change course and direction and actually search for that unspotted DD that is spotting you. So and how is that cruiser or DD gonna survive the combined onslaught form your CV + your battleships + your cruisers + maybe your gunn DDs IF you spotted them while sneaking through AND travelled with you fleet? If you got catched alone, didnt spot them while sneaking through or you fleet is simply mostly dead, then: tough luck, you deserve to die. Its a pity that most game end on points/time before the CV actually gets to die. Insta die? So you die to a enemy CV strike (in which case: serves you right!) or you simply dont as your CV, when played right, is prone to be amongst the last ships to go down on your side. Except that when he detects you and you played right: - he is the one dead. - you are probably even outside BB gunrange and even if not you got endgame cruiser grade armor, a healthpool only ONE T 10 cruiser can surpass, equivalent to a T 8 battleship, with still better Armor than lets say Des Moines. So if a BB is shooting at you from those 23 km engage WASD hacks (I know distracts from damage whoring but you only need to assign a new autopilot destination with 1 click) with those shell flight times and dispersion the change of speed from beginning a turn, or the speeding up again after one, is enough to make the shells miss. At max range cruiser and DD caliber HE is barely of any use against you anyway ... that leaves only the fire-lottery. You can take a few BB cits in between going into hiding because it doesnt cripple you, for you can deal damage without any risk to your ship. And if you got shot up/torped from close, guess what? You deserve to die. And dont forget the Speed: Taiho goes 33,5 knts. Cruisers can barely be faster than that, some are even slower and actually would dead if they go 33,5 knts because that would mean straight lining and insta-deletion from a Battleship. DDs are faster on paper, but not when in a frenetic dodge-frenzy because your planes are incoming or you are spotting them for your fleet. General advice: Maybe start playing something else into the high tiers and see how easy and reliable it is to shoot up the enemy CV ..... that should give you a pretty solid idea on countermeasures from the CV side.

Ah now I get it: Yeah sorry Airfield, if having your planes not taking the direct route back and moving is not saving you, nothing will save you. So imbalanced that a CV cant roflstomp the whole enemy team alone no matter what their own team does (which usually means how much their own team sucks) and what the enemy team tries to defend themselves from your planes ..... like actually shooting you - how uncouth! I guess survivalrates of 70+ % uniformly on high tier carriers are still not enough ...... So unfair so imbalanced. Next up: - I cant kill the whole enemy team alone while driving in a cruiser, take massive damage from anything, everyone is preying on me and 2 shells are enough to sink me. - I cant do anything about the planes keeping me spotted and focus fire is deleting me before I can sink the enemy team alone in a DD. - The only Torps that should do damage in this game are those on Tirpitz, DDs should have Pensa-Camo-Rating, and cruisers should actually die to 1 shell max - BB-Bibble Page 1. #cvproblems #cantsitstilltheentirematch #shellsdistractfromdamagewhoring #cantkilleverythingalone #theysometimesactuallyshootback #somepoorfu<ksactuallygotthrough #Aeorplaniskarzinom

Its actually the opposite and may (time will tell) bring forth a very good thing, simplay because with T 7+8 you usually get seal clubbed by T9 and T10 (since there are usually not enough T 9-10 ships those get constantly pulled up to attend the their own butchering).... and lets be honest things like the none-p2w-T8 cruisers are amongst the shittiest in the whole game. I did that too, and Kawachii vs Kongo is just plain BS.

Oh yeah ofc if they just dont change the MM of the Operator in the upcomming update then they should be save. My assumption is based on that hearsay, it will be t3-5 after the update and then even a reverse back to the original state will be seen as a (forbidden) nerf. I mean just think when Tirpitz received better AA due the the change with the whole AA-equipment-rework. Tirpitz AA was now far better ... but I dont know 0,5 km shorter ranged (for the longest range guns)? Result was: MUH PRE-MUM! NURF! WITCH! THEFT! BURN! ... so Tirpitz received an AA and range re-buff in order to not have a single attribute lowered. (iirc)

Hey you dont need to convince me, I am all in for this grossly OP-Russian-bias-I-win-/-wouldnt-even-be-seaworthy-as-depicted-in-the-game ship to be at T 5 anyway, but I am just curious ....... so there is "nothing" holding them back from T 9 Atago? T 6-7 Gremlin, and so on? Just look at all those "ninja nerf xxx after patch yyy"-threads ... curiously its (usually?) never about a silver ship but rather about a premium/Tirpitz .... just so you know the people they would have to deal with if they "nerf them by MM".

Lets see: - battleship hp. - ridiculous good armor, from endgame-cruiser grade side amor to even fu<king armored decks (on high tier CVs) - faster than any cruiser or destroyer because you can make them turn and you are as fast as a fast cruiser anyway. - ok concealment ..... there are ships that get actually shot at, because the have to be in front, which have to deal with way worse ..... - coupled with the best scout capabilities in the whole game of any class - the closer the enemy gets, the stronger the carrier gets ..... - defensive fire, despite telling everyone that with wasd hacks and "ridiculous high tier aa" you will only take "minimal damage" anyway; and that doesnt even include actually command able fighter squads with barrage instead of shitty floaters. - now even for free SA, which tells you when to stop playing an airfield, hiding behind islands, and maybe get your a$$ moving. Thus, I fail to feel any sympathy for a carrier that fails to travel with his fleet and is so focused on damage whoring that a DD (or even a bigger ship ) can sneak through ...

I thought WG isnt "allowed to touch" premiums, even grossly OP ones (aside from further buffing ofc , refersing a buff - thus a nerve back to original state is also forbidden) or else all the lamers most of the player that own one are thowing a tantrum, asking for refund or worse ....... basically this (has even the "appropriate" answer in the end ):

Actually I did and just wanted to add to it ;)