havaduck

Provide the third tab of this battle result and I can try.

Well I hope they can finally pen shi7. But if thats really the case then the discussion has to be "high-tier german BBs" and "low to mid tier-german BBs" because we were essentially having two different discussions at the same time then. ^^ There is also Tirpitz. I would still argue that her ok-ish secondaries + closerange I-win-button-torps are superior. If you take the secondaries or the hydro to use it on ships hiding in smoke away ...... whats left than a shittier Tirpitz, a inferior silver ship yet again? Also the problem will probably lie with p2w again. 10 pts captain which is doable: Fine. 15 pts captain trained with premium ships and time (you need probably 500 games without; as a good player) -> maybe OP.

Totally : Lets recap: Undamaged AA from a T 10 carrier. Undamaged AA from a probably fully AA speced T 10 USN BB. Flew right over the undamaged AA of another, probably fully AA speced, T 8 USN BB - not giving any crapabout it, CV-Style. 1 plane lost before the drop. 4 planes in total. Hangar capacity of the Midway: 130+. Teamplay form the players needed: Forming escorts. Limiting you own damage potential due to being relegated to escort duty. -> Effect: 0. Teamplay from the CV required: 0. -> Effect: Overwhelming. But it probably doesnt count since there is no cruiser and not half ("only" a quarter) the team is cramped into one square of the map. I agree that the CV was a easy target, but the point still stands: This would have been a completely OP strike even if only 2x2 torps would have hit, because there is still NOTHING to stop dive bombers going in and setting the victim on fire over and over again. So no it was pretty ridiculous back then, and it didnt work aside from conditioning people to lemming train and camp. I said this before too and still totally agree.

Simple. Because if a battleship fires, a DD launches his torps ..... they are gone. The are underway (and for some time even!) and wont chance course over and over again. I can evade a shell salvo or a torp spread the moment they are fired/launched (and sometimes even earlier). A air group is lethal until the last plane is dead or they dropped. Also if any vessel casually drive closer in order to get that perfect shell/torp salvo of, I can shoot/torp them; even blindly. Shooting/torping stuff is a very efficient way of silencing the shell/torp source. Unlike CV which is basically unkillable (speed, camo, reserves, "range" - survival rates, remember?), and just comes back over and over again thanks to bottomless reserves in high tier and non-existent AA + def Fire on low tier. Define easy! I have seen inconceivable idiots in both normal ships and CVs [edited]up even principles that are not exclusive to the game like: trying to take the shortest route. Apart from that: I played CV too. I found myself way over performing compared to the experience I had. I couldnt just jump into this game, play a few co-op matches and then face roll the enemy opposition with "normal ships" (aka non-CV ships). The worst part is that basically no ship was able to put in a fight. You can even drop on a Texas in a Zuiho - as I found out during GNB. You just need to do it farther out and be prepared to loose some planes. Big deal - still got the damage. Its only a problem if you fucked up before and had serious losses. And then there isnt even any RNG. BBs brutally dominate cruisers, but they can even miss that boradside 6 km target. If a CV looses planes on the way in the other immediately compensate and the drop from the remaining planes will still be perfectly centred. What that means is that you might be able to shoot down 3 of 4 IJN planes going in ..... and then still get hit by that one remaining torp, because it goes exactly where the CV aimed it. Like I said countless times by now: I found exactly 2 enemies. The enemy CV (which include my lack of skill in fighting one), and the UI. Also you dont understand: The difference in the skill-ceiling is exclusive to the inter-CV damage whoring contest. You have victims with basically no chance of fighting back. The whole competition is between the CVs. Ofc a victim may decide to take 2 instead of 4 torpedoes, while the other CV is blessed with opponents that obliviously drive into all 4. That might or might not tip the balance ...... as do lucky detonations, fire or whatever. The bottom lines stays the same: Its a CV on CV fight. Play a cruiser. Make no mistake at all. Deleted. Play a cruiser, be the counter to CV. CV still harvests you without mercy. I think we need to work on the cruisers first before we shed a tear for the over punished CVs, with free victim choice but still going after their supposed counter only to then be able to replace their planes completely a few times (depending on tier). What a lot of people dont get is that I dont hate CV players (exceptions ofc). I also dont hate people that drive premium ships (again exceptions), even the p2w ones. It still doesnt change the matter that CVs in their current form are unbalanced Sky Cancer and some premiums are blatantly p2w. The problem with both (for the most part) rests not with the players (again exceptions) but with WG. I division with people playing CVs, or premium - and I have 0 problem with them. I have iterated my views on what to do with CVs, like - giving them something else to do than plain unstoppable damage-whoring - and fu<king rewarding them for it. Good CVs teamplayers spot DDs .... and get fu<king nothing for it - which is disgusting. - or interaction with other classes: If a cruiser demolishes the AA of a NC with HE and a CV is able to strike it because of that -> the cruiser should receive a share of the reward. Seems only fair to have the CV work together with other ships - just as they have to work together with sharing AA against the CV. - normalisation of CV-rewards after they are reworded to normal lvls. Faking the numbers in order to hide how OP they are is also disgusting beyond believe. - Shooting down planes, especially with payload onboard, aka going-in, should be rewarded way more. - a lot more ..... the search is your friend. The end of it should be that there could be a theoretical 2 vs 3 CV catchup - without anyone being able to automatically determinate the outcome if all CV players are equally skilled. What do we have here? Everything I try to hammer home the whole time. Green: Now imagine what you can do if you dont have commendable fighter squads. I mean just one tier lower and still got "insane high tier" AA + WASD-Hacks + Defensive Fire (3 times the duration of a cruiser) + commandable fightersquads are even not enough to be able to outplay a bot? If you listen to the CV-Faction not even all that is needed to just bleed a human enemy CV dry in no time ... Red: Indeed. Its the lesser of 2 evils compared to hog wild random MM considering how unbalanced CVs are on their own. Goal has to be balanced CVs that dont need MM restrictions at all. Blue: You might add to that: the stupid interface [edited]things up for CV (and they have my sympathy for that). That and the enemy CV are the only enemies. The other 10-11 guys are just victims.

Make that CV of any tier. You get no AA and no AA barrage to even it out on low tiers. .... and on the last part: Survival rates of 60 % (except Bogue and Langly) rising up to 81 % with the T 10 are simply to punishing. So WG is planing (as per Q&A) to reduce their basic fee and repair costs significantly. Meanwhile everyone else outplayed by a CV that pressed battle and mastered "alt" can go screw themselves - shouldnt have played when there is the possibility of a CV around. Balanced, anything but AS doesnt matter against a Saipan. Ofc he lost the Fighter dogfight, even tough a Yorck tried to intervene ("ridiculous AA" and "relevance of team play" .......), lost his TB on top of that. Same Yorck couldnt be in time there for the drop: The genius ofc didnt move with the fleet and actually moved BEHIND his spawn position on neighbours. Beached himself, got torped and flooded, repaired, torped and flooded again. (another fun mechanic that usually gets fires added on top). The sad thing is that I dont even think its a bot. Its a complete moron in a T 7 carrier that failed his way up. On the torpedo protection: Wrong, Kongo has 27 % Torpedoe protection. Thats better than any german battleship in the game up to and including the T 10. Thats better than Zao you know the T10 cruiser from the nation with the best torpdoebelts. On top of that cruisers are maybe able to 1 instead of 2 per squad, but also have half the hp, and for the most parts dont get repairs. So they are even punished harder. .... best thing is that not even a DD can is able to avoid it .... On the second part: They do well if they have mastered the skill of pressing W 4 times and the alt key before they attack. The can do even better when outplaying the enemy CV and are a genuinely good player. And thats WITH reduced rewards. I bet with standard rations he would be even above Beaver. WG decided the best way to conceal how OP CVs are is to still have them OP, but not ontop of every scoreboard like it was when OBT began. 1. I decided to take this game because it also covers help from teammates. Loosing to a carrier without any hope is already bad enough, but remember the part with the Yorck. You know the carriers counter? If I get hard countered because I drive a BB fine, but when a cruiser shoots the CVs plane the should drop out of the sky BEFORE they release their payload, without any question whatsoever. Hard counter without hope for hardcounter without hope in this case. Its only that carrier players are using the hard counter phrase, but when they dive right into their own counter its suddenly "insane AA". Also in this case there has to be MM implemented tat supplies at least 1 cruiser per 2 other ship in the team with defensive fire loaded. You can have a CV in this game but if you do, its not even certain that you are given any means of defense. 2. If you want a undertiered szenario: There is even that in this hier post right above your quote. We had a CV player getting a good result despite facing "insane high tier AA" and the diminished CV-rewards, that are there to hide how OP they truly are. This example is even more perfect in pressing one point home: This game was again mostly decided by the CVs. The enemy CV threw their game, ours didnt. Very balanced.

My repair was well timed. It allowed me to doge one torp, while also doging the expected Hatsu torps. He droped as I predicted both left and right since I dodged some spreads before. Lets recap: Even with AA help from teammates, with the repair party consumable and "minimising" damage I lost HALF my ship. DD? Outplayed him, pushed his smoke, sunk him. Obviously without any help from our CV. Less than 2 minutes later ... you guessed it: Hes back. I have a ship that is supposed to be his counter and another battleship to aid me. Ofc its a CV, so the AA does nothing. 2 Torps later the other half of my health is practically gone and I am getting finished off fast. I have no idea if the Yorck had AA barrage or popped it. I saw it myself having absolutely no effect on a CV-drop in the Pensacola. All I know is that the CV was able to just lough about 3 ships sharing AA and not loosing any planes on the way in. Oh yeah and since its about this: WG - fix the broken a$$ shitty CV-UI. As much as I hate Sky Cancer this is ridiculous. There are 2 things holding CVs back: 1. The other CV but only if not noob, bot, akf, the other one having p2w advantages. 2. The shitty UI. Want to recap on the "delaying the CV" part? 2 Stikes and I am dead, and then the CV proceeds to harvest the next poor soul that again cant do anything to protect itself. Against most other foes I would have been able to do some damage and give my division mates a chance; but not CV. Thanks to bottomless reserves he is in no danger of running out of planes. I "slowed him down" for like what? 3 Minutes? Lost my ship without any chance got 2 plane kills in return? If thats desirable then WG should spawn the CVs right inside the enemy team. There they can try to slow them down all the want. I promise to send up a float plane every time for them to kill. Sounds stupid? Apparently CV player find that this is a good trade, so it shouldnt bother them. This one actually annoyed me the most: Which ship? Not a single T5 ship can stop a Saipan. The Kongo has one of the best (which means still useless) AA-installations of its tier.. Hell at T5, cruisers dont even get AA-Barrage at all. Even better there is only 1_!_ ship T5-7 that could slow down with a Saipan (and would still die in the process) and that a fully AA specced Cleveland. Am I biased? Was this match winable at all? So yeah Wargaming. 24 people playing the match. 2 (4 if its a double Sky Cancer-Game) deciding which ones is going to win. Shared AA doesnt do jack shi7 ... Totally sounds right. The thing is: I can potentially (not always, not against everybody) outplay any other class - as it should be. You cant with a CV. If the CV mastered the elusive art of pressing alt, you have already lost ....... ... and this is with the CV alone. I didnt even start talking about collaterals like forcing you to turn in front of the enemy fleet, taking routes you dont want to go, etc .... So comming back to this event: Its now not only down to how many afker, bots, idots, wallet warriors the MM places on your side. Now now its again decided by the most OP class of all. Get the bad CV player on your side and die without hope. Get the good CV player on your side and still die without any chance yourself, but watch said CV player roflstomp any opposition. Sounds fun ...... This. CVs has no other class as a counter. Even AS CV setups completely suck at stopping the enemy CV from raping and pillaging at will.

I would say both. They need to reworked and nerfed so long, as to no longer requiring any matchmaking rules. The same is btw true for battleships, and to a degree even for destroyers. Just to show you the reality of the game, that this damn event brought forth again and again and again in a anecdotal way: MM puts this guy: against that guy: with predictable results: I never felt the urge to flame the enemy cv. Actually we had pretty civilized talk without him resorting to any sort of mocking or taunting - which I appreciate immensely. Its not the players, its simplay the ship they are driving is sky cancer. So yeah you can warn them and try to form a plan: You can really try everything ..... but in the end: A noob against a experience player in p2w premium ship with a p2w high xp captain? predictable results. and now there is simply NOTHING that can be done. People are telling me that you can stall them, make them waste their attack runs - lets see about that. Its 6 minutes in and there is already the next strike coming. CV is not even wasting time with stacking the planes. He nows nobody can do anything against him. Just casually drive in my aa aura till he gets that perfect broadside drop - no minimising damage possible against that - 2 torps. Dont get flooded but my eingine is out. And now the second squadron drives up from the other side, casually ignoring my AA the Bayerns AA, and maybe even the Yorks.

Everyone that plays german battleships understands that. Because its apparently not enough to get shot on the whole game by ships with way better pen and accuracy guns. No, once you are close ,you still struggle to pen their citadel. Even low armor IJN battlecruiser turn into full fledged Yamatos against german guns. And if you get one of those rare citadels because you are so close, you crew can just roll the shell onto the enemies deck instead of using the guns, you would be in clear one-shot-terretory with every other battleship.... Honestly, I am not to happy with this "cant citadel (or even hit above 8 km) but cant get citadeled in return"-gameplay myself, but also people are lamenting about not being able citadel german BBs while basically enjoying that very same immunity themselves when fighting them. And heavens forbid the fight is drawn to ranges above T1 cruiser range ..... then the german BB isnt allowed to hit or reg-pen anything anyway. So yeah, I admit they are actually pretty balanced for the most part, or at least to an amount you can expect from a freshly released branch - imho. Itjs just I who is not overly enjoying their game play of spamming AP all game long without; totally rng dependent without any big number strikes. Thus you have to hope to live long enough to get ANY damage done. * disclaimer: Up to Bayern so far.

Dont worry Sub. You play a lot and will run into a friendly forumite sooner or later. Just ask and you will recive - I am certain. ;) You earned 1 million, you got another one as a gift with the silver achievement/medal, and another one as a gift for the medal turning gold.

1. There is mention of when and how it is possible to still get cita hits on german BBs in this thread. 2. You deal with them like everything else that is hard to penetrate for what you are driving for whatever reason. Its not even restricted to german BBs. I f you have no clue about that: Ingame are tutorial videos under "basic training". 3. Basic Training is there for a reason. You can, after wachting them, open a serious thread asking for help or watch YT vids. 4. And thats the most important part: If someone wants to know/help how to deal with them, he will bloody ask. I dont know where you get that question mark-vibe from "NERF German BB Armor !" with the exclamation mark at the end ..... So yeah, the answer "l2p + git gud!" definitely seems to perfectly match the question "NERF German BB Armor !".

Yeah and you definitely only brought arguments for the in your eyes "to popular" part. I think fresh bread is to popular! I can even give pictures of full bakeries on Sunday full of people buying in fresh bread and disregarding the totally fine but a day or even just a few hour old ones. I mean is it really so unconceivable for you that a lot of people rush playing german BBs now that they are finally in? What about every even remotely famous premium ship ? And what will happen when RN cruisers ..... or damnit even RN battleships will be released? Then, I prophecies, it will be way easier to list the ships that arent a Royal Navy battleship .... Another astonishingly breathtaking tale of awesomeness: road wet during rain.

DONT. Selling a ship could have dire unforeseeable consequences for you, as this is a unprecedented procedure. *cough hoarder cough*

Auto. Just log in and there should be a notification of the addition in question after a medal went gold for the whole populace. (ofc you have to have the silver variant yourself first)

Yeah, because its sorted by battles played and not WR as he tried to. Oh man, I suppose the german cruisers were OP too when they were released, because everybody played the shi7 out them back then. Its not like they received buffs later because a lot of them were such atrocious POS. Some of them still are, but just to a lesser degree after the buffs.

No necessarily. I think I hit the magazine for the forward turrets of a straightlining broadsiding FDG from 12 km just a few days ago; with 40,6 cm from NC. Sorry not specifically a answer/comment to what you wrote; but I simply couldnt resist .... I just couldnt.

Its a secret! *scnr*

The other side to that: With the shitty german guns, every other BB you shoot - even jokes like stock Myogi - every single one becomes a "german BB" too since you cant citadel them properly as you would expect. Hitting with those shell-sprinklers is another issue since you have to go to really low distances to be in effective (!) gunrange; and then it starts with the no-pen- and bounce-fest, while still retaining overpens. yeah .... Dont make it look like german BBs get to keep the same level of artillery performance other BB enjoy on top of that armor; because in reality they pay dearly!

NP, like I said: I have nothing against Premiums which are different (although I think there is only so much mixing around that you could do before you have to invent new game elements), but every (hefty) advantage has to come with a similar serious drawback of another kind. ...... unlike Gremlin, unlike Atago, unlike Murmansk ..... etc. Scharnhorst is a excellent cruiser (from what ive seen + stats). I wish more battleship-size-and-maneuvrebility-but-without-firepower-and-armor actual-cruisers were like her. My top 3 "cruisers" I played rather recently on the live- or PT-server: Pensacola, Kiev, Tirpitz ......

You do realise the HP difference is 1200 - so I agree its not doing anything in setting a huge gap. And we dont want that - we really want a really noticeable difference, something unique to set it appart from the tech tree counterpart. ... but your wish is granted: "Your" PE has now Radar (optional instead of the floatplane) and and 34 k HP. Ofc since its now different, it doesnt need to earn more captain xp or credits compared to other premiums. Enjoy.

And so it starts. People want radar or whatever for the PE. Ok, but better question yet: what are you TRADING IN for that to not make it outright p2w over Hipper? Lets see - you guys want radar obviously to hunt dds. -> To hunt DDs you dont need 17 km range. -> PE has now Radar AND 14,2 km range; camo stays the same. Better? Unqiue enough? Or all of a sudden not "fun" anymore?

Didnt you know? I always said I cant bestow sky-cancer on some poor opponents in pvp . I do it "occasionally" (mostly when there s a 100 % daily) on bots, and especially if I got a reason like 6k free xp. (I kept a Zuiho in harbour since GNB - since its in that n1 T5 bracket that earns nicely while having practically no repair cots - so 1 easy n fast game and admiral-medal was done) I (usually) also dont sealclub and play my low tier ships in co-op.

Grab yourself a cheap T 4 carrier and do 2-3 games (depending on your learning curve ) in co-op. Sell afterwards. Thats basically half a million silver for 5k free xp. ^^

The difference is that when MM decids to put idiots in all the other classes on your side its hard but to variable degrees but a lot more manageable than CVs imbalance. Try THAT when the enemy would get again 2 CVs against a lone CV on your side. You just gotte compensate by superior play? Suuuuuuuuuuuure. Then its no problem if we go back to unmirrored MM as well. T8 CV vs T 10 CV. All you need to do is to outplay him. Not even the CV players are (usually) bold enough to suggest their class is balanced enough to allow a completely unregulated MM of their class Yet supposedly its of no issue if there isnt a single cruiser with defensive fire or any AA capability whatsoever on your team. Go figure. Thing is: A well played CV can have a strong influence even in a -2 bottom tier environment - and is usually OP against even tiered enemies let alone being higher tier. Its actually a joy seeing a skilled cv player (or at least one having a good game in this case ^^) overcome the drawback of being bottom tier. On the other side I can tell you that the enemy CV thought he could drop on 2 T 8 battleships escorted by 2 cruisers ..... Yeah I know its a CV dream, and only then "aa is properly balanced" but I am glad WG changed that; when I think of the fiasko that was OBT CV- and AA-Balancing.

Todays gaming session got cut short by network issues. Got thrown out of the game (thankfully post battle) and out of TS as well; simply total connection blackout. Now I simply dont dare to play for the moment .... still another good day I suppose. Actually I know it has to be. Every day is good when your division get their share of haxusation. Totally not a carry but lets recap: - Won our flank crushingly. (and yes, our flank was ofc A....) - Lost our cv due to sheer stupidity and airfield syndrome. Or maybe he did it to keep the game "exiting" and "challenging" for us. - But had two division mates with me I can count on; so we divided the targets between us. For them the CVs for me whatever was on a. - Nuked Phoenix on A, scared a Campeltown so shi7less, by pushing his smoke and dodging his torps, he no longer wanted to contest the cap with me. Ofc since I outnumbered them 1:2 in the Nassau. - Or remaining CV is a damage whore that cant be bothered to spend a lousy divebomber squad as scouts while I was lit up by enemy planes AND had to push the dds smoke. All that, although its HIM that is sailing straight into DDs jaws; and ofc its up to me to save lousy a$$ from a well deserved spread of torpedoes.

You guys have no idea what you just unleashed. Yep, lotsa Kirovs Actually, I will take pity on you and limit myself just to those two. ^^ Surprisingly, we agree .... heretic. On topic: I rather have this PE that is "as balanced" as the other T 8 silver cruisers (while still retaining some tremendous boosts that come with being premium - even enhanced) than yet another p2w boat.