havaduck

And what you and others dont understand is that that a potato will still win against a equal potato with all the p2w advantages. The same goes for an actual skilled player against another equally actually skilled player. Thats the problem. It only gets more pronounced with completely idiot proof resistant ships you have to actually work hard to suck in it. If WG would believe the BS they are spouting about Prem-balancing and had the actual balls, they would let people choose which ship to use. Yes, keep the bonus xp, the bonus creds, the free captain choice, free captain retraining - all those advantages per se WITHOUT any corresponding disadvantage, but let people decide which ship to use (without premium advantages). I will instantly, without a second thought, switch out: Gnevny, Pepsi, Gneisenau, Bismarck, Budyoni, Kiev 2x, Omaha/Kirov (depending on your view on that matter), Chapayev, Hipper, New York, New Mexico, Myogi, Wyoming, Nassau and Ranger. And thats only those ships form top of me head, that also have at least somewhat of a direct counterpart. EG: Unfortunately the shitty version of the cheat-sold-by-WG that is the OPerator hasnt yet be revealed.

Reductio ad absurdum on purpose: AOs idea of that "asian girl": Not like the "usual" anime girls, but hey what do I know. Ill stick to Pony. *scnr*

Try a cruiser and see if that helps ...

Its imho actually less stupid (because the other AP characteristics and rof are better) than bouncing 7 AP shells with a Hipper of a DD, and at the same time having a _much_ worse HE broadside against a DD than a god damn T 4 Kuma (if rof is also taken into account). For the rest I have to see. I expect the low tiers to be again completely unplayable because WG not giving a [edited]. Higher tiers ...... dunno. 152 mm wonder-AP that feels like american 20 cm AP shells but even better _could_ work. You will aim for the SS of anything angled, even angled cruisers. Honestly I have get informed more, and more importantly see for myself. One thing I can tell you right now is that WG will get even more crapfrom me if anything is not balanced because if they are so arrogant to skip a PT (for whatever reason) they will get whats coming for them.

If you cant slaughter cruiser with a Arizona you should play more co-op. If you are complaining that your p2w boat gets bested by other p2w boats you should rethink about either: Throwing more money at WG to get everything p2w possible and out-p2w the others, or quit the p2w-poker-game of raising stakes completely. In case you didnt notice: This p2w game is all about frustrating you enough about actual or perceived (I leave that up for anyone to decide for themselves) unfairness until you are willing to shell out money to get a more equal ground, or outright advantages. Even if you decide against endorsing WGs despicable behaviour you provide the lamb for those willing to go p2w to slaughter. Either way: The house always wins.

I especially love that part. This is a Cleveland, also known as the probably most tankiest T 6 cruiser. The colorfull part is big ouchi for Cleveland if you hit it. Which is easily done by generally pointing the guns in the general direction of any shitty cruiser and let dispersion do the rest. This is a BB from the same tier. The blue parts its all that is vulnerable to Cleveland 152 mm HE shells temselves. Now guess who has much better shell flight times? (and not only Cleveland NM, but Cruiser/Battleships in general)? And take another guess who needs to be a lot better in aiming and prediction to score any damage, in stark contrast to olol random citadel-deletion on the other side? I know what comes next: but a battleship so so much bigger! Is it? The ingame ships are scaled up, but they are scaled up by the same ratio. Cleveland: 185.42 m x 20.22 m NM: 190 m x 29.69 m Ofc, one can maneuver and angle to minimise damage (and repair on top), the other one gets shitty randomly deleted from citadels from every angel. So tell me again wtf a cruiser captain is supposed to do without fire against a angled battleship, that WG decided to make nearly 100 % shellproof. And this fire needs ontop a felt eternity to do any damage - which can be healed back in the first place and the fire can be put out with one button + immunity period afterwards + equipment/skills to reduce fire duration. I didnt even select p2w-a-cheat-sold-by-wg-ships like the Operator ...... So much for "cruiser captains cant aim".

Did they also give a reasoning for that decision?

Ofc, it is! Thats why I called it "Very crude 1-szenario-aproach" . I would love to do it in a more meaningful setting, but try that with for example in a T 4 game. Some questions that rise immediately: Is the ship stock or upgraded (damage relativ to hp shifts then!)? Do stock ship give the same amount of xp as upgraded on for a full kill? Different rewards for different shipclasses and ships. So you have to a. know what eg a CV did hit exactly, and b. his reward modifier for that. more complex spotting tanking. more complex capping/decaping. I could imagine that capping/decaping xp goes on a different diminishing curve, thats added together with the damage part in the end. .... and it just goes on and on .... Honestly try it for yourself and you will see that the amount of unknowns is a nightmare and with the amount of assumption required, any "thesis" gotten out of that shouldnt even be called speculation. Thats actually gone. There was sort of a hardcap for that in pvp which was around 40 for a loss and 60 for a win. It was basically moving and shooting (without a hit required) I think. In one of the more recent patches this was removed. There are several hints in this match we can work with, and I can use to prove that the "base reward" is not 100: The Pinkie with 1 xp for example. He drove around and did use his guns, yet he got one xp. The enemy bots for example: The lowest got 34 xp. If you theory is correct that still would be only 51 on a win. The upper limit for such a flat-base-reward is therefore at least at 51 xp for a win - as limited by this info. I have this screen from before the MM-change that confined T1 cruisers to themselves (ofc also before spotting/tanking was introduced): As you can see there is no flat-all-or-nothing-plateau that would constitute a flat-minimum-reward for those not outright being afk and not moving, or if such a thing exists it can go as low as 11 in co-op on a win. I am fairly certain its a curve, or maybe even curves. I have a certain feeling that if you, lets say, are at 66 % in the damage part and then do some capping, you still get 100 % for the first cap. Problem is as mentioned above: Things get too complex with too many unknowns really really fast. I could in theory generate a point-cloud and then let a solver find a function f(x) that would somewhat match that ..... but honestly: NO!. I'd rather clean my kitchen than gather all that data and then dust of my old graphical calculator. ^^ With the first entry I honestly wanted to create the basis of the discussion. You have to put-up or shut-up as they say ^^, because you never know: Internet is infinity full of knowledge and idiocy and some one might know something to contribute. All I can say is that T1 game even surpassed my darkest suspicion about WGs Model. I am really amazed: Whenever I think there is somewhat of a bar, WG not only already crawled below it, now they outright already _dug beneath_ the rock bottom ....

Which hunt for CCT - wrong I agree, but please elaborate on the matter of what it is, that you think will keep WG from releasing this cancerously-OP-std-ridden-p2w-whore as it is for a hefty price; in stark contrast to other streetwalking disgusting p2w ships that already got released? Also bear in mind that they gave it to the CCT for a test-drive and then lifted the NDA and thus those assessement-vids went already live.

Because I play co-op a lot too, you know; and so do other forumites?

Yep thats sadly typical CV kind of view. They demand being a hard counter but when its about a cruiser countering them its suddenly: "muh damage" + "muh planes". Lets flip this around: A Furutaka then definitely should wreck a incoming Saipans strike, right? Its not a AA specilist ship, but last time with the NC this was disregarded in a "who the fu<k cares"-kind of fashion anyway, since "hard counter > little details like aa-specialist" - so its very fitting. I mean a cruiser is the counter to an airstrike, and again, just like in the other case a Furutaka is "just" 2 tiers below, should definitely deplete the reserves of a Saipain in no time, and with no fear of taking much, if any damage, ofc. I cant wait for that patch to drop .......

In a nutshell: Btw, which country are you trying to buy from? I remember several greek forum members had problems buying stuff a while ago.

Well I would argue for balanced, but slightly worse (to make up for more creds, xp and usually highly trained captains) premium ships but looking at WGs track record and people even defending/demand it: yes definitely. The best part is the "its not a op-advantage"; well then getting the same amount of "swing in the opposite direction" as a disadvantage certainly cant make the ship up, now can it? Getting yet another p2w boat is the last thing this game needs ....... How about some "fun" silver ships again? Mogami was never as brokenly OP as this thing ought to be, yet its still one of WGs favourite rape victims. What about fixing other T8 cruisers and cruisers in general? (no releasing p2w and pay-to-not-suck-a$$ cruisers doesnt count). "The RN made it into the game before they were able to " [insert anything] - but lets say in this case: "fix the other T 8 cruisers" ........ is showing how disgustingly insulting this situation is, in which they release yet another p2w-boat.

Then the premium ship is not "fun" anymore, dont you know? I wonder when WG will make ships like this "fun" (aka "different", like people like to insist) by not only giving it Pensacola camo-rating on T8, but also taking the T8-module-slot away. That ought to make things "very different" and "fun" indeed .......

Who the hell gives a flying feather about "a rating" in this game. Remember that Clemsons "artillery rating" goes from 10 to 11 with the upgrade from the Mk 12 to the Mk 14 guns ? ........ yeah sounds legit, mate @ WG.

About those Islands again: I spotted one, risking my very (game) live (_intentional_ tactical beaching - I insist!), to bring you this picture, taken from board my Gneisenau: Imba, I tell you, Imba! Immagine if they bring a premium version of islands - the horror! I might have run into some Forumites again today, but I didnt 100 % recognise their name. So in whatever case, if you where there and recognised me feel greeted anyway. ^^

You guys mean like König Albert? Honestly dont bother if its not even on sale on NA. .... inb4 a mob of people again begging to be able to throw money at WG, while being played for a fool, like WG EU usually does:

or this: (you dont need to understand it, to "understand it" ^^)

Greeting a fellow Forumite on the other side would be the collateral of that .....

Wait a moment .... We had pretty much the same discussion about missing stuff and dead silence on the forum, and how we should look for the portal because only a minority reads the forum and everything noteworthy will get posted on the portal. Now, around 1 year later, its nobody gives a damn about the portal, and we should look on the forum - with the same excuse but flipped around? Really I remember the discussion about the "Announcement"-Subsection just being a useless decoration... Not to mention WG never mentioned the change of "where to look" in the first place? Waiting like a good boy/girl silently doesnt work with Wargaming, if experiencing WG for 1,5 years up close has taught me anything. Example One: The event calender. Example Two: König Albert (premium releases are just one week after NA, huh? If not I am sure everything was "communicated in detail" ). Example Three: The "not touched" smoke-mechanic. And the road to the past is littered with stuff like that. Anyone collecting, refurbishing and selling old pitchforks for the next WG-fuckup could make a fortune ...... And just to be clear: What is going to get posted on the portal in the future? Obviously its getting demoted, the launcher is only to direct at the portal anyway and the ingame tabs are not there for an early warning either. Fore example: We can only guess when, if and where the next event calendar-info will hit ........ Even the reds cant blot out the epiphany any more.

ouch ..... how the actual .... hell, do you not notice the rainbow arcs the very first time you open fire in that thing? Or how about the shell travel time rivalling sending the shells per actual mail ..... The Atlanta is one of those ships, that simply have to move out of fear, that if they stand still their shells might drop down back onto them.

Well ... I knew you had "more than a few" games in it, but honestly didnt think of that at the time of typing that other post. The thing is that that when I think: "OP p2w", things like Operator, Gremlin, p2w-zov etc immediately come to mind. If you then think of explainable, albeit not excusable noob-behaviour you will again land at T 4 and 5 and lower tiers in general. The same reason I am cutting some slack if I get second-rowed in low-tier co-op (friendly torps should count as potential damage too ....) and just give a reminder to to not torp from second range and range of their torps in general. The same is not true if some wallet warrior in a Tirpitz costs me 40 k+ (half of the battlefee in co-op is cashback, but there is no compensation for team damage) + the lost xp for the first win of the day, just because he is not capable of reading the range of his torps - usually after lots of battles, refrain from second row torping, and ofc has to kill that 20 km enemy battleship with 6 km torps.

Well ...... there are some borderline cases. Imagine being a new player, imagine having your first T 4 BB after grinding trough the T 3s. Imagine reading up upon dispersion throughout the distances, and how rng influences everything etc. Imagine playing this: which translates to this: and at the same time seeing the dispersion of one salvo after another of this, right next to you: Then very next match you have the "pleasure" of playing against one, not driven by a complete moron. You still have to be a special snowflake to be yelling "cheat" at another player ingame (instead of flaming WG, like you should), but this thing is so disgustingly OP p2w that it very well might be considered a cheat sold by WG, considering the tier, the performance and the MM it possesses.

You get accused of kill stealing even by the enemy? I have to remember that for the next time we division up ... n/c that would be suitable for this forum. On topic: Its sadly part of the game. I love it the most when shell travel over 20 seconds to the impact, but its me cheating because I cant plausibly landing the shot. Noobs just have to know, because unlike me, they lob the entire game shells from 20+ kms away and cant hit shi7. Also its never about the fact that 20 + (gotta aim too) seconds of straight lining even allowed the shells to hit in the first place. To sum it up: