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About Excelsior_II

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    Able Seaman
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  1. Excelsior_II

    Dutch tech tree

    Hi mate, Seems reasonable to me, except the DD threath, as the Dutch DD line might be more special, in the lower tier ones carrying a floatplane, but the higher ones fitted with Radar, something the Dutch were pionering in since the early 30's. So far no DD line seems to have one with radar, so this ight give the Dutch line a specialty unrivalled by others. In general terms, the ship's hull's were in cruisers and capital ship designs based on the German contemporaries, though often slightly faster with more enginepower and slightly thinner sideprotection, which was compensated by multi layer spaced armor types, as in the comming French ships. Dutch Destroyers were mostly based on British and Swedish origin. In the whole Dutch line Gun accuracy and firecontrol will excel, also due to the prionering development of optical and radar controlled firecontrol, and state of the art High Angle targetting systems, coupled with te medium calliber AA of mostly 40mm Bofors guns. Dutch cruisers will nomrally not be fitted with either torpedoes, or heavy AA guns, but use their main armament as heavy long range artillery, backed by a uniform 40mm Bofors outfit. BB's might include the proposed Dual Purpose secondaries of 120mm as seen on the Design 1047. Possibly the compensation of this all will be a lower than average hitpoints hull, compared to equal tier ships of others.
  2. Excelsior_II

    Dutch tech tree

    Hi there, The Destroyer at T-10 is basically a coppy of the Swedish design, Halland Class, though preceding the actual Holland Class (do not crossfire the names, as one is with an "A" for the Swedish ship and the Dutch one is with an "O"). Confusing, but historically correct. The first actual design was for the copy of the Swedish DD. Here is its technical display: Type: Destroyer Displacement: 2,670 t (2,630 long tons) standard 3,344 t (3,291 long tons) full load Length: 121.6 m (398 ft 11 in) Beam: 12.1 m (39 ft 8 in) Draft: 4.24 m (13 ft 11 in) Propulsion: 2 shaft geared turbines, 2 boilers, 58,000 hp (43,000 kW) Speed: 37 kn (69 km/h; 43 mph) Range: 3,000 nmi (5,600 km; 3,500 mi) at 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph) 445 nmi (824 km; 512 mi) at 35 knots (65 km/h; 40 mph) Complement: 272 (peacetime) Sensors and processing systems: Radar Scanter 009 Thomson-CSF Saturn HSA M22 Armament: 4 × Bofors 120 mm (4.7 in) guns m/50 (2 × 2) 2 × Bofors 57 mm (2.2 in) guns m/50 (1 × 2) 6 × Bofors 40 mm (1.6 in) AA gunsm/48 (6 × 1) 8 × 533 mm (21.0 in) torpedo tubes (1 × 5 and 1 × 3) for wire-guided Torped 61 1 or 2 launch rails for Saab Robot 08anti-ship missiles 2 × quad Bofors 375 mm (14.8 in) anti-submarine rockets The scaled down Dutch Holland Class is as following: Type: Destroyer Displacement: 2,150 long tons (2,185 t) standard 2,600 long tons (2,642 t) full load Length: 113.1 m (371 ft 1 in) Beam: 11.4 m (37 ft 5 in) Draught: 5.1 m (16 ft 9 in) Propulsion: 2 shaft geared turbines, 2 boilers, 45,000 hp (33,556 kW) Speed: 32 knots (37 mph; 59 km/h) Range: 4,000 nmi (7,400 km) at 18 kn (33 km/h) Complement: 247 Armament: 4 × Bofors 120 mm guns (2×2) 1 × 40 mm Bofors AA gun 2 × quad 357 mm (14.1 in) anti-submarine mortars 2 × depth charge racks Here you see the difference in size, as the nummerical difference was the Swedish build just two and the Dutch build four, plus a slightly larger second batch of four after it, though wanted more actually, restrained by budgetary reasons. As is clear, the Swedish ship carried torpedoes, just as the Dutch design was to carry when in the early study design stage, though these were never installed when actually build. See in Dutch language the building plans of these ships: https://marineschepen.nl/schepen/onderzeebootjagers-holland.html https://marineschepen.nl/schepen/onderzeebootjagers-friesland.html (was to have torpedoes, though not fitted with them when constructed) As for the Battleships, these were just sketches only with no backing technically or whatever else. The T-9 cruiser however was an actual project for the later commissioned Hr. Ms. Zeven Proviniën class, with the inclusion of the British QF 6 inch Mark N5 gun, then under development, though teethed by delay and rising development costs, so dropped when the Dutch ships were in their final stage of development, after redesign, as the ships were actually started in 1939. The 1945 development team was based in Bath, England and used the knowledge of war experience and the contemporary British development in cruiser construction and weapon development in its initial designing, before separating from the British plan for pragmatical reasons.The ship was then redesigned to take on the Bofors 152 mm gun instead, as further delay was unwanted. http://onzevloot.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/1/3/14135904/c802_zeven_provinciën_1939_-_1976.pdf
  3. Excelsior_II

    Dutch tech tree

    That is correct, as the Holland was designed after WW2, though simmilary the innitial design had torpedotubes included, before being shifted to a more pure ASW role. The space between funnels and aft deckhouse clearly showed the original layout, that was to have two sets of torpedotubes on the centerline, as in previous prewar designs, though as torpedoes were becomming less important on surfaceships, they were ommited when the design evolved. Hypotheitcal is refering to pure paper studies, just as in other techtree's of other nations. Mackensen was at some point supposed to be sold to the Netherlands for scrapping, though in considering the cancelation of the 1913 Dreadnought plan, the comming of the Mackensen Class to the Dutch yards, was a change to take them over as they were almost complete already. In the end the Mackensen class was not scrapped in the Netherlands, but Germany, replaced byt hte Nassau class being scrapped in the Netherlands. In modenr China, something simmilar actually happened with the Aircraft Carrier Varyag, being sold from Ukrain to China for scrapping, but commissioned as the Liaoning.
  4. Excelsior_II

    Dutch tech tree

    These are all hypothettical designs based on drawings in: "De strijd om de slagkruisers; 1938-1940", from: G. Teitler, ISBN 9067070289. I have a copy at home, dealing with these captiual ship designs for both the official end design 1047 and their prelimmary studies, as well as some drawings of future hypothetical ships. Names are loaned from exisitng and past Dutch Naval ships, the majority naval heroes of some kind. The Cruiser Prins Willem is almost identical with the Zeven Provinciën, except for the main guns, which were supposed to have been replaced by a fully automatic type of 6 inch twin gunmounting, vissually looking like the actually installed ones of the Zeven Provinciën, but armed with the autoloader type, as seen on the T-10 British cruiser Minotaur. This was an actual plan in 1952, eventually not proceeded with, due to the budgetrestrictions, resulting the addoption of the actual Swedish design semi-automatic 6 inch Bofors Dual Purpose gun and mounting. To provide a different name, I addopted the Hr. Ms. Prins Willem, for the Hr. Ms. Zeven Provinciën, as the name was used in the past on Dutch Naval ships. The T-10 design is the proposed scaled down Cruiser Killer type of the 1938 design, to create a smaller ship for the Dutch East Indies, capable to dealing with the Japanese 8 inch cruisers, but not counting on the possibility to face the Kongo class fast Battleship. As a result of this, this design was not proceeded with in the scaled down variant, as the Naval Staff disliked the weaker design too much. (See same refered tittle as above) As for the destroyers: all except the Tier 10 are historical designs, with the T-10 a scaled up design of the first pre study ending in the actually build scaled down Holland Class, which is in T-9. Hr. Ms. Bloys van Treslong was a naval hero of the Dutch Naval Past. (The T-10 is originally a larger ship, based on the USN Allan Sumner/Gearing type, with Dutch and Swedish fittings, resembling the Swedish Halland Class of the same period. Budgettary reasons forced the Dutch to scale down the design into the actually constructed Holland Class.)
  5. Excelsior_II

    Dutch tech tree

    Dutch Tiers World of Warships: Koninklijke Marine (Dutch Royal Navy) Cruisers: Tier 1 Hr.Ms. Van Kinsbergen (1939) 4 x 12 cm (4x1) 2 Hr.Ms. Gelderland (1900) 6 x 12 cm (6x1) 3 German Köln class varriant (1916) 7 x 15 cm (7x1) + 2 x 2 TT 4 Hr Ms. Java (1924) 10 x 15 cm (10x1) 5 Hr. Ms De Ruyter (1936) 7 x 15 cm (3x2 + 1x1) Hr. Ms. Tromp (1938) as Premium 6 Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (1936) Alternate slightly larger design with 8 x 15cm main armament 4 x 2 7 Hr. Ms. Eendracht (1939) Original design, before war started 10 x 15 cm (2x3 + 2x2)+ 2 x 3 TT 8 Hr. Ms. Zeven Provinciën (1953) Final design of previous as build. 8 x 15,2 cm Semi Automatic (4x2) 9 Hr. Ms. Prins Willem (alt. Design of previous with fully automatic guns) 8 x 15,2 cm Auto. (4x2) 10 Hr. Ms. Koningin Wilhelmina (alt design Design 1047). 9 x 24cm (3x3) + 12 x 12 cm DP (6x2) Destroyers: Tier 1 - 2 Hr. Ms. Fret (1910) 4 x 7,5 cm (4x1) + 2 TT (2x1) 3 German type 23 variant 4 Hr. Ms. Kortenaer (1926) 4 x 12 cm (4x1) + 2 x 7,5 cm AA (2x1) + 6 x TT (2x3) + 1 aircraft 5 Hr. Ms. Witte de Witt (1929) 4 x 12 cm (4x1) + 6 x TT (2x3) + 1 aircraft 6 Hr. Ms. Gerard Callenburgh (1939) 5 x 12 cm (2x2 + 1x1) + 8 TT (2x4) + 1 aircraft 7 Hr. Ms. Isaac Sweers (1939) 6 x 10,2 cm DP (3x2)+ 8 x TT (2x4) (same as above, with British fittings) 8 Hr. Ms. Tjerk Hiddesz (1942) (ex Royal Navy Napier class) 6 x 12cm (3x2) + 10 x TT (2x5) 9 Hr. Ms Holland (1950) 4 x 12cm DP semi auto (2x2) + 8 x TT (2x4) 10 Hr. Ms. Bloys van Treslong (alt design enlarged Holland class) 6 x 12 cm auto. (3x2) + 8 x TT (2x4) Battleships: Tier 1 - 2 - Hr. Ms. Soerabaja (1910) 2 x 28cm (2x1) + 4 x 15 cm Premium 3 Germania werft design (1913) 8 x 30.5cm (2x4) + 16 x 15 cm (16x1) (alt early proposal) 4 Germania werft design (1913) 8 x 35cm (4x2) + 16 x 15 cm (16x1) 5 Vickers design (1913) 8 x 35cm (4x2) + 16 x 15 cm (16x1) 6 German Mackensen class Design (1916) 8 x 35cm (4x2) + 14 x 15 cm (14x1) 7 Design 1047 (1939) 9 x 28 cm (3x3) + 12 x 12 cm DP (6x2) 8 Design 1047.35 (1939) 9 x 35 cm (3x3) + 16 x 12 cm DP (8x2) (alt design scaled up) 9 Design 1047.40 (1939) 9 x 40.6 cm (3x3) + 16 x 12 cm DP (8x2) (alt design scaled up) 10 Alt design 12 x 40.6 cm (3x4) + 24 x 12 cm DP (12x2) (like French Alsace)
  6. Excelsior_II

    '''' all idiots in ranked

    I feel the same, as most DD players are OK, but the ones in BB's in general do not seem to be teamplayers and hang mostly in the back, doing nothing at alll. Since I mostly play Destroyers, or cruisers, it is frustrating to see the big boys hiding behind an island the entire match. Perhaps Wargaming could ban such passive players from ranked?
  7. Excelsior_II

    Customer irritation with lag and pings

    What arguments are there to force customers with older systems, who in the past had no troubles playing WOW, to buy newer more powerful systems to play this game? Why can the older stats not longer be used to allow people to have fun and play WOW normal?
  8. Excelsior_II

    Colorado after buff OP

    Hi fellow gamers, Lately, since a couple of weeks I discovered the Colorado has been buffed adn is surprisingly more powerful and accurate. It once was one of the worse battelships in the enitre game, though tough to damage. Its guns were horrible in accuracy once, though now it is even more accurate than Nagato. This makes the ship quite overpowered at T-VII to my ideas, as the advantages in other T-VII BB's are negated now thish battlecrawler can snipe at long range. How do you want to play against it with a Nagato, Scharnhorst, or Gneisenau? It will pen your citadels before you know it and before you get into range to make your own guns effective. Cruisers are even more in problem against it now it is so accurate. Since I am more playing cruisers and destroyers myself, I discovered this myself . Perhaps Wargaming could nerve this buff a bit so the Colorado becomes what it was, just a normal T-VII ship and not an Overpowered Slow Moving Fortress.
  9. Excelsior_II

    Hr. Ms. Tromp

    Hi there Ferry, Nice to refer to that other game with my name as well. Luckily it is not that club in the other large city, near me, with that halfgoddes like name! BTW, A complete Dutch line might be a bit far away, though WG is making two for the French already, so it is not completely impossible. Even in WOT they now have smaller nations with full tier lines, such as Sweden and Tsjecho-Slowakia, suggesting if we wait long enough, they at WG might include smaller, but once important maritime nations in the game as well.
  10. Excelsior_II

    Want, no wait. Need De Ruyter as a premium now WG!

    As mentioned in another topic in this forum, the Hr. Ms. Tromp would be a nice addition as well, possibly as premium ship. It is the most versatile of the two so called: "Flottieltjeleiders", or in English: "Flottilla leaders" type of small cruisers. Compared to Hr. Ms. Jacob van Heemskerck, it has a bonus in both size of the main guns: 5.9 inch compared to 4 inch, though the 4 inch has eight in a broadside, to six for the 5.9 inch. More important is that only Hr. Ms. Tromp carried torpedoes. In Hr. Ms. Jacob van Heemskerck the torpedoes were never fitted and their space was used to accomodate the two wingmountings for the waist 4 inch twins. A special destroyer is also possible: Hr. Ms. Isaac Sweers, also fitted with the British 4 inch DP gun, replacing the original Bofors 4.7 inch guns. This is possibly a premium Tier 6, or Tier 7 ship, with excelent torpedoes, but lacking gunrange, due to the 4 inch main guns. It might be a specialist in AA defense though, as the Main Armament is DP in nature and the two twin 40mm Hazemeijer mountings are radar controlled.
  11. Interesting to include either Akagi, or Kaga in the game as well. Something special about these is that like the USS Lexington, these originally carrierd a Low Angle battery of 8 inch guns (In the Japanese ships actually 7,9 inch). Perhaps Wargaming could make use of this to give these carreirs a better punch in case of an attacking ship might come too close to it. Might be simmilar to secondary gunnery on battleships and cruisers, but with greater range due to the larger guncalliber. It would be interesting to see a lightly armored cruiser getting citadelled by a random hit of such a secondary heavy gun of a carrier! By the way, I think the Akagi is best in the same tier as Hiryu, as the two were contemporaries and operated together for the duration of WW2.
  12. Excelsior_II

    Hr. Ms. Tromp

    When will the first Royal Netherlands Navy ship enter the game? A likely candidate is the small light cruiser Hr. Ms. Tromp, named after two Dutch Admirals in the 17th century and not to be misidentified as the next president of the USA,. Being a small light cruiser intended to operate as destroyer squadronleader, though never actually deployed as such, it is likely a mid tier ship, around Tier 5 or so, since it is very lightly armored, but fast, with a good mix of guns and torpedoes. Basically it is more modern Yubari of the IJN in most cases, appart form being equipped more as a gunship, with state of the art firecontrol (Dutch firecontrol was second to none in those days).
  13. Excelsior_II


    Is it possible to get back this unique ship? I personally like a cruiser with destroyer gameplay features.
  14. Excelsior_II

    New Premium Ships Netherlands

    Some ideas about a premium ship for an old maritime nation's Navy? The Dutch Koninklijke Marine certainly had a number of very interesting designs of her own. To name a few: - Hr. Ms. Tromp Class Flotilla leader / Light Cruiser 1936 design - Hr. Ms. Gerard Callenburgh Class Destroyer 1937 design (Hr. Ms. Isaac Sweers is a member of this class with British guns though) - Hr. Ms. De Zeven Provinciën-class cruiser (Post WW2 name, Ex-Kijkduin class.) - Hr. Ms. De Ruyter (1933 design)