MAD_3R_Marauder

Be prepared for DD galore, though. Those NA-sians sure have a destroyer fixation I have seen up to 6 DDs in _each_ team, being in my South Carolina, I nearly had a heart attack, lol.

Just a few things (I promise ) How about, in order to get that nice looking fireball, if a squadron has accumulated 75%+ of the damage needed to kill a plane, let that plane die when the squadron leaves the AAA umbrella? Since I don´t play CVs (did perhaps a dozen games in closed beta and decided it was way too much Command&Conquer), I can´t really comment on CV gameplay. For the low tiers, I wasn´t talking about reversing AAA, just take a little bit from BBs (like reducing dps from 80 - 100 to perhaps 60 - 80 and add those 20 dps to the cruisers, which would bring them to some 30 - 50 and make them actually a bit useful in the AA job. And I agree, the Yubari was an AAA _beast_ in CBT BTW, has she been nerved? I mean she was always fragile, but holy cow, I am now losing engine/steering every time an enemy _looks_ at me and if he locks-on, I´m as good as dead

No problem, heat is taxing at my place too. You are right, it _does_ feel great when your shells hit the right spot (the one you aimed for) and kill that "oh so mighty, bane of the BB" cruiser with one salvo You are also right that shooting three salvos at a CA and hitting only for a grand total of 10k is close to rage-quitting proportions (and due to subjective perception, those cases seem to be a _lot_ more common. Well, I know WoWs is an arcade game and mentioning history is kinda frowned upon but actually, in the war in the pacific (the real one, not the game, lol), quite a lot of aircraft made it home in various states of damage and many of those were deemed not worth it to repair and written off for spare parts. Germany: Estimated total losses for the war totaled 27,875 aircraft, of which 7,000 were total losses and the remainder significantly damaged. United States: Total losses were nearly 45,000, including 22,951 operational losses (18,418 in Europe and 4,533 in the Pacific) Japan: Estimates vary from 35,000 to 50,000 total losses, with about 20,000 lost operationally. ^ Those are the numbers I could find on the fly (also have a look at the attached pics - sometimes it seems like a miracle those guys made it home) Well, I´m not so sure with re. that there is no problem with AAA on low tier. Let´s look at what we got: Tier 4: -Wyoming: No AAA on stock, decent AAA on B hull (48 dpm out to 2.5km, 64 dpm out to 2km and 78 dpm at 0.9km) -Phoenix: Pretty much none. Yeah, the C hull has about 22 dpm out to 2km, but that´s it. -Myogi: None on A and B hull, but quite good at C hull (12 dpm out to 5km, 60 dpm at 2km and a whooping 108 at 0.9km) -Kuma: Pretty much none stock and not much more after the hull upgrade (12 dpm out to 3km) -Yubari: Quite good with 72 dpm out to 3km, but it´s a premium ship, so I´m not sure it should count, because, then I´d have to list the Arkansas Beta with not a single machinegun for air-defense. Tier 5: -New York: Decent AAA with 36 dpm out to 3.5km and 96 at 2km -Omaha: As good as none stock, decent (80 dps at 2.5km) with B hull and good (27 at 3.5km, 104 at 2km) -Kongo: Decent with B hull with 24 dpm at 5km, 60 at 3km and 84 at 2km -Furutaka: Virtually none stock and with the B hull and only minimal with the C hull (20 dpm at point blank, less further away) So, what does this show me? BBs actually have quite decent AAA, but cruisers, (except for the Omaha) are quite lacking and stock, everything sucks. Now I understand that is part of the business model, enticing one to use free XP to jump over to the upgrades, doesn´t mean I have to like it Personally, I´d like to buff the AAA on the cruisers (especially on the IJN side) a bit (and give every ship _some_ AAA stock, for heavens sake), so people can grow earlier in the "provide AAA support for your BBs" role. I could live with a nerv of BB AAA, btw. Note: I didn´t actually realize the BBs had that decent/good AA (yes, apparently I never really looked at those stats ) I hope so. Maybe I´m a bit spoiled, coming over from Star Citizen, but I sure like to think devs are listening to their fans/customers. LOL, if _that_ is complicated/complex, the concept of War in the Pacific - AE would explode their heads But I understand what you are saying and yes, if the game is aimed at the smallest common denominator (which, I guess, it kinda is), then yeah, adding complexity isn´t the thing to do - quite sad, actually, given I got the feeling that the average WoWs player is a wee bit older than your standard MMO kid and could probably deal quite handily with a bit more complexity. You know what? Actually tasted quite good Edit: Holy cow, that got _a lot_ longer than intended

Als alter Simulations-Spieler bin ich voll für mehr Realismus. Also weg mit der Entfernungsanzeige im Fadenkreuz, schätz die Entfernung gefälligst oder benutz einen Entfernungsmesser (Triangulation), was in Wirklichkeit zu einer Trefferrate von unter 5% führte (In Echt war die Ermittlung der Entfernung das viel größere Problem als die Richting in die geschossen werden musste, deshalb war in Wirklichkeit "Crossing the T" auch eine so gute Taktik, im Spiel eher weniger) Träger haben ab sofort noch genug Torpedos für max. 3 Angriffe ihrer Staffeln dabei, dann sind nur noch Bomben da. Der schon angesprochene, nicht spot-bare, 40km Reichweite Typ 93 "Long Lance" ist natürlich unverzichtbar. Schlachtschiffe bekommen ihre echte Mittelartillerie mit ~20km Reichweite. Die Deutschen Zerstörer bekommen den Zaunkönig (akustisch gesteuerter, selbstlenkender Torpedo - ich geh dann mal US und IJN DD jagen ) Und, und, und.... Jetzt aber mal im Ernst. Ja, viele beklagen sich, Torpedos seien OP. Ich kann auch verstehen _warum_ viele das denken, wenn ich sehe wie sie mit ihren CA und BB rumschippern. In machen Fällen werde ich von dem BB versenkt, das ich gerade mit meinem DD angreife. Ich meine, der BB Skipper hat mich nicht nur gesehen, er hab mich beschossen und _versenkt_ - und trotzdem kommt er nicht auf die Idee vielleicht mal einen Haken zu schlagen, weil es ja immerhin möglich sein könnte, daß ich, bevor ich versenkt wurde, noch ein paar Tropedos abgeschossen habe. Hab den ganzen Hafen voll mit "Only a Scratch" Medallien Dann die Schlachtschiff Kapitäne, die meinen sie müssen an den Inseln entlangschrammen. Ja nicht zu viel Abstand vom Land halten. Vielleicht denken sie ja, wenn sie am sinken sind, können sie ihren Kahn auf Grund setzen und so ein komplettes Absaufen verhindern. Auch immer wieder gerne genommen: In Bereiche fahren, in denen _kein_ Schlachtschiff was zu suchen hat, solange noch ein einziger DD/IJN Kreuzer beim Gegner da ist -Die Enge im Osten oder der mittlere Bereich auf "Fault Line", die Bucht im Westen von "Big Race" oder die Bereiche zwischen den Insenl auf North fallen da mal spontan ein. Oh, oder hinter einer Insel parken und snipen, bis ein DD vorbei kommt und einem 3-6 Trops reindrückt. Völlig unfair, weil man ja still steht und deshalb nicht ausweichen kann Und dann die DD Fahrer als Torpedo-Noobs beschimpfen, wenn man direkt hinter der Insel ein/zwei Torpedo Fächer einfängt, lol. Übrigens, irgendwo wurden die Stats vom Asien Server veröffentlicht, die zeigten, daß DD die Schiffsklasse ist, die absolut _unterperformt_. Aber klar, Torpedos sind total OP

Ok, I´ll bite First, I am not angry. I am old enough that little things like a game don´t make me angry anymore (not since a long, looooong time ) Second, the "lied" part, I just couldn´t resist. I don´t know the correct phrase in English, but in German we call your post about "escorting isn´t a thing below T6" a "Steilvorlage" (kinda a very big opportunity) I just couldn´t resist. It was meant a bit as a tongue-in-cheek reply, should probably have put a smiley in there somewhere. Third, I agree that AAA is a RNG thingy (the pure AAA mechanic) with not a whole lot of interaction from the player. You think this is a huge problem and in a way, again, I agree (it is never easy to swallow when you get beaten by a game-mechanic and not by the actual player on the other team). Of course, this goes especially for BB drivers too (may I mention shell spread?) who have their performance influenced by the RNG like no other class, I believe (and yes, it _sucks_ when the RNG plays against you and out of 12 shells you shoot at a DD in 3km, all but 1 hit in a nice circle all around the DD - and yes, I know close range spread is being worked on) Would I like for the AAA mechanic to be more player-driven? You betcha! Can I see a way to do it? Hm, aside from the multi-crew ship set-up I mentioned in an earlier post, nope - well, having the AAA not act like a blanket, but with firing arcs like on a real ship would be a start, to be honest. But since I am pretty sure WG won´t change to such a set-up, there is no use in arguing about it. The AAA mechanic is here to stay, because WG would have to change it and WG doesn´t want to (to use a phrase of yours and yes, I am assuming that. If you have more insight, please enlighten me. Now, given the AAA mechanic will stay as is, I want it to be balanced, as in - a dedicated AA cruiser should (on average) be able to take out half of _one_ attacking squadron (of the same tier) over the course of an attack (approach + withdrawal), just to throw out a (completely discussable) number here. So a Kuma or Furutaka probably wouldn´t kill anything, an Omaha B would perhaps kill 1 or 2 planes and an Omaha C would kill 3. Of course, such a set-up wold be complicated by the fact that IJN and US have squadrons of different size (which, IMO, is just stupid and complicates balancing unnecessary, but that´s a different discussion). Another thing that could be introduced is, that squadrons "remember" damage. As I understand it, as soon as a plane leaves the AAA blanket, all damage the squadron has received is reset. Just keep that damage, so if you pass over several CA, damage accumulates. If a squadron with more than 50% of the damage needed to kill a plane reaches their CV, that plane is "written off" (in that case, AAA damage could be adjusted a bit, of course). And again I have to come back to the MM. It is pretty easy to balance within a tier. T5 planes have such and such HP, T5 AAA deals such and such DPM, adjust DPM, so that, on average, X planes are shot down per minute. Easy. The moment different tiers enter the calculation, things become difficult. Stick to +1/-1 tier in MM (believe me, facing a Zuiho/Kuma/Kongo/Bogue/Omaha/New York in a Kawachi ain´t no fun either ) (and move the Cleveland up a tier, as is expected) and most problems with AAA either being too weak or too strong go away. Edit: Follow up. I just had an idea about how you, as a CV player, could influence how many planes you lose to AAA. Let CV players set the altitude of their planes. High altitude, good spotting-range, but being shot at by AAA at long range Low altitude, crap spotting-range, being shot at by AAA only a short range Medium altitude, well, medium range for both (basically, how it is now) Altitude is set at launch, so you can´t start at high and then go to low (yes, not realistic, but to prevent gaming the system) Also, because every CV player would put his fighters at high and his TB/DB at low, at high altitude you are shot at at _really_ long range (x1.5 or x2 or so), not just the max 7km currently, so if you want to scout with your fighters, sure, just go along, but be prepared to lose quite a few of them. Again, I just throw out those numbers to have, well, some numbers out. Then again, DDs would _hate_ high-altitude-fighters. Not sure that would really work.

And here I was, thinking I would learn to play the _game_ and not just part of it at lower tiers (so much for introducing new player to the "team" aspect of the game). BTW, if what you say is true, then WG lied to me. On the loading screen it states explicitly, that my mission as a cruiser driver is to protect my comrades from air attacks. If this isn´t true for tier 5 and lower, maybe that text should be modified, no? Anyway, I don´t think there is any point in continuing, so have a good day.

You said, AAA works on it´s own, no skill from the player required in contrast to, for example, a DD having to act and react to get his hits I showed how, again IMO, sure there is player skill involved, positioning/maneuvering of the ship, just the same as that DD. If Positioning your DD so you can ambush/torp a passing BB is skill Then Positioning your CA so you can intercept incoming bombers is skill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You said not every ship´s AAA is fine, as in, most are, but a few aren´t (at least that´s how I understood it, if you meant it differently, sorry for the misunderstanding) I said, _most_ ship´s AAA isn´t fine, there might be some that are (at higher tier I have no first-hand knowledge of) but on the tiers I _know_ nope, pretty much _no_ ship is fine with re. to AAA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------You said that you are very likely to face T6 CAs in your T5 CV (which is, of course, correct) and that you will have a bad time in that case I said that it is very likely that you will face T6 CVs in your T5 CA and that you will have (probably) an even worse time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And what do you mean, there is no escorting below T6? I mean, yeah, _currently_ there isn´t, but that´s because there is no point in it (vs. planes, vs. DDs is another story) If there is no escorting on low tier, I sure hope you won´t complain about a lack of it at high tier, because the new players have just learned: Escorting is stupid and doesn´t work anyway. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But you´ve asked what I want. Well, to be honest, I don´t have a solution handy apart from: Fix the bloody MM, so only same tiers face each other! Because, if you look at it, that´s the main problem. If I face a T6 CV in a T4/5 CA, I am fodder But if you face a T6/7 CA (or two) in a T5 CV, your planes are equally fodder. And that, in my honest opinion, is at the bottom of the whole AAA issue. You can´t balance something like AAA across several tiers, simply won´t work. Either AAA is strong enough to hurt higher tiers, but then it will completely wreck same-tier CVs, or it is just strong enough to hurt same tier CVs (which, I´d argue that at low-tier it currently isn´t), but then it is completely useless vs. higher tier CVs. Simple solution, don´t mix tiers.

I don´t feel my cruiser threatened, nope. I feel that there is simply no way I can fulfill my _role_ as a cruiser of protecting BB/CV from air-attacks. I´m also not arguing for a general buff of AAA, I just try to point out where your arguments (IMO of course) lack a bit of logic. You say that maneuvering to keep my AAA between the CV and the approaching planes isn´t manually doing anything to achieve a lot of shot down planes. But, how is "maneuvering to keep my CA between the CV and the planes" any different to "maneuvering a DD to be in a position to be able to torp a passing BB from ambush"? Yes, as a DD I have also to press the left mouse-button, when the BB is about to pass the island I am hiding behind. Wow, that took a _lot_ of skill - not. The skill was used to get into that position without being notices. The skill I had to use in my CA was situational awareness, keeping all the approaching squadrons in view (at least on the mini-map), deciding which one was a) the biggest threat, b) can I reach a blocking position to that squadron in time and c) will this put me in a position where I am easy meat for _another_ squadron or put me in a place where, while I am able to block _that_ squadron, will then be out of place to block the _next_ one. Now, if that, in your opinion, is no use of a skill to get AAA kills, then yes, I didn´t have to do a thing But I agree, I am tired of this too. We might as well agree to disagree and leave it at that.

No you didn´t, but you basically said that: "Yes, AAA isn´t perfect on _every_ ship" and my recourse was to say: "It isn´t perfect on _every_ ship? It isn´t perfect on _most_ ships, at least up to tier-5 (which is where I´m at so I can´t judge tiers-6+)". Oh, and of course I didn´t have to maneuver like a madman to stay between the planes and the CV and being prepared to dodge incoming torps in case the CV skipper decides to take _me_ out first in order to get rid of that little annoying bug (of course, now I know that I wasn´t all that annoying anyway). Nope, no action required on my part at all [rolls eyes]

Look at the part I bold-ed. Perfect on every ship? The Omaha-C is the bloody best AAA ship up to tier-5, and it does diddly squat to CVs of T6/T7 I agree with the assessment, that there are issues with AAA (both, the way you assess the OP Cleve-AAA when put against lower tier CV as well as my assessment of AAA CA that are put up against higher tier CV) I was rather trying to answer to your "My issue with cleve is that it has high chance of fighting tier V" thingy - similar to my Omaha having a high chance to be put up vs. T6 CVs and being rendered completely useless (in terms of AAA). Which, according to you, points to the real problem here, MM. I could buy the argument that there were not enough players at each tier to limit the spread to +-1 (or even 0) during CBT with 6 to 8k players, but now in OBT, with 30k+ players? [edited]! One final note on that Cleve vid. If I stumble into a hiding DD in my BB, I pay the price. If you stumble into a Cleve with your squadrons, you pay the price Don´t really see the difference. Oh, and about the "AAA doesn´t need any skill but does it thing automatically". Yeah, that´s the way it is currently, and I don´t see a way around it - unless WG wants to go the Star Citizen way, with multi-crew ships, one guy driving, one guy manning the main guns and a third the AAA (could even have different people man different turrets/broadsides - come to think about it, a "Naval Citizen", I would totally buy into that )

As a little counterpoint to your vid, @Ishiro32 I was in my Omaha two days ago (hull C, the one with improved AA) and my team had a single Ryujo while the other team had a Ryujo and a Hiryu, so I decided to stick to our carrier to provide some AAA. Our carrier was attacked twice. I was positioned about 2km from our CV towards the incoming planes. The planes passed _over_ me on their way to our CV. I shot down a grand total of _4_ planes. Yeah, AAA is doing just fine Sure, I was in a T5 CL and the attacking carrier planes were T6 and T7, but still, there is a good chance my Omaha will face T6 carriers.

When you are spectating and see an enemy DD closing in on your CV, you call out to the team and no-one listens. Then you call the BB close by to look behind him because there is that DD _right there_ and he keeps sailing away (fortunately, the CV got the DD himself) Oh, another one: When you are engaging the enemy at 10+km and suddenly the torpedo warning sounds - frantically you look around, expecting incoming torps from a hidden DD only to realize it is a Wickes, launching his short-range torps from behind you at a target 12km away.

@OP: You may think torpedoes are OP, but they aren´t. Sure, I have those games too where I sink 2, 3 or maybe even 4 ships in a single game in my Minekaze, but this is only due to enemy´s mistakes. Let me give you an example. I am driving in my Minekaze, closing in on an enemy BB while staying out of visual range. Suddenly, a cruiser pops up from behind an island I was using to shield me from being spotted and of course, he sees me and opens fire. I turn away frantically, but I am on my last leg HP wise already, so I launch my torps at him (about 4km range), more to boost my own morale than expecting to hit him, and right after that he sinks me. Now, he is 4km away, he has not only seen, but fired at me and _sunk_ me. Yet he keeps going in a straight line and, of course, two of my torps hit and sink him (and one other hits a BB sailing 1km behind him _also_ not doing any evasive action, lol) Once on the Ocean map, I took out 1 CA and 2 BBs sailing behind each other along the map edge. You should think at least after I popped the first one (and turned away a bit too late, so I was spotted), the others would start to take evasive action, but noooooo. Those are most of the situations, where torpedoes feel overpowered. Sometimes I am --><-- _that_ close to calling the other team on chat, asking them to please, _please_ take some evasive action Edit: I thought torps hitting the bow already deal less damage? More damage for ramming friendlies, well, that could turn real ugly, real fast

Is it as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning?

I think this was my best (and first) battle with the Albany XP is the 2x for first victory 25k damage, sunk an Umikaze, a Tenryu (he got the 3 citadels ) and a St. Louis (was shooting at someone else and ignored me to the bitter end) But I have been sunk without hitting a thing too

Most "hated": Hotspots takes the cake, since it is crap no matter _what_ I drive, not actually the map, but the set-up - complete idiocy. If I am in a BB, Fault Line is a pain in the backside - oh, and Ocean, can´t hit a bloody thing at long range, can´t estimate enemy´s speed, hurts my eyes (seems like some haze or something). Only good when I am in my Minekaze and the enemy is stupid (which he often is) and there are no more than 1 hostile CV. Other than that, the maps are kinda ok, don´t think I have a favorite.

While that is definitely true, this argument goes, of course, both ways. Sure, a good team, working together can stop a CV player cold (from what I hear at higher tiers at least - if the best AAA you have in your team are Pheanix, Kuma and Omahas (usually _not_ with the AAA hull), things look a bit different), but those good, working together teams aren´t your average player either - just sayin

Hm, hat vielleicht eine Insel (Berg) die Sicht verdeckt?

Na ja, ein DD is klein und daher ohnehin schon schlecht zu sehen --> nahe am spotter wenn er gesehen wird. Deshalb wirkt sich ein Tarnmuster nur wenig aus. Ein BB ist verdammt groß und kann aus großer Entfernung gesehen werden, duch Dunst, leichten Nebel, usw. Hier wirkt sich ein Tarnmuster also viel stärker aus. Ok, nicht 100% überzeugend aber immerhin Tatsächlich ist es wohl eher der Balance geschuldet.

@OldIronside Zum Glück hast Du Tier 5 gesagt und nicht 6, sonst müsste ich jetzt ruhig sein Ich spiele alles außer CV (nicht mein Ding) und habe (wie oben erwähnt) in allen diesen Klassen Tier 5 erreicht (außer IJN BB, Myogi macht mir keinen Spaß). Ich hätte kein Problem mit einer (mäßigen) Limitierung der Torpedos, aber ich spamme auch keine Torps ohne ein Ziel zu haben. Trotzdem hab ich nur eine 10% Treffer-Rate mit den Dingern - also so 50+ müssten es schon mindestens sein Wie @OldIronsides sagte, die vielen Fehlschüsse, die vielen Male wo ich von Fliegern aufgedeckt werde bevor ich in meinem DD auch nur in die _Nähe_ eines BB oder CA komme oder die Fälle in denen mich eine Kuma, Omaha oder Phoenix aus dem Wasser pustet bevor das BB mich überhaupt zu Gesicht kriegt (oh, und der Spass des zerschossenen Antriebs/Ruderanlage bei _jedem_ HE Treffer (ok, ich übertreibe, aber nur seeeeeehr wenig)) wird vom BB meist nicht registriert. Klar ist es frustrierend wenn ich in meiner New York eine Breitseite auf einen DD in 4km Entfernung schieße und a) 8 von 10 Granaten landen vor oder hinter dem DD im Wasser und b) die beiden die treffen kosten den DD (wenns hoch kommt) 20% HP und alles was ich für die nächsten 30 Sekunden tun kann ist zu versuchen den Torps die 100%ig auf mich zu kommen auszuweichen so gut es geht. Aber eigentlich sollten sich die CA in meinem Team um den DD kümmern (ja, ja, schon klar, Random Matches, kein Teamwork usw. - seltsamer Weise bin ich in meinem DD praktisch _immer_ das Ziel von jedem CA in Reichweite, wenn ich aufgedeckt werde - keine Ahnung warum das in _meinem_ Team, wenn ich BB fahre, praktisch nie der Fall zu sein scheint - Willkommen zur subjektiven Wahrnehmung ) Zu 1 vs. 1 BB kontert CA*, CA kontert DD, DD kontert BB Ja, in so einer Situation sollte der DD gewinnen (auch wenn es, wie oben erwähnt, echt frustrierend ist) Aber ja, es gibt diese Fälle völlig hirnlosen Torpedo-Spams. 30 Sekunden nach Beginn des Spiels Torps blind in Richtung des Gegners zu schießen ist schlicht Blödsinn - und das auch noch aus der 2. oder 3. Reihe zu tun is nicht Blödsinn sondern Gemeingefährlich. Das Problem damit ist aber, daß Leute die weder in der Lage sind die Stats ihrer Schiffe zu lesen (und damit zu wissen welche Reichweite ihre Torps haben) noch in der Lage sind die Sinnlosigkeit/Gefählichkeit ihres Tuns zu erkennen werden auch nicht in der Lage sein eine Munitionsanzeige zu lesen (ich frag mich sowieso, wie die Kerle in der Lage sind ihren PC zu starten und dann auch noch ein Passwort einzutippen - viellicht hilft ihnen jemand dabei) und deshalb ihr Verhalten nicht ändern. *Das ist zumindest der Plan, ob das im Spiel z.Zt so ist, darüber kann man diskutieren

You can use them to train/re-train captains, since transferring one from/to a premium ship ignores the retrain mechanic (i.e. assign a captain to a new ship of yours, click "Start Retraining", transfer him to a premium an "farm" XP. Not sure if they earn more credits than regular ships, haven´t looked into it as I am still at low-ish tiers and don´t intend to go much higher and also play for fun not for XP (ok, a little bit for XP too )

Nach allem was ich im Englischen Forum gelesen hab, bedeuted -7% Brandwahrscheinlichkeit 25% x 0.93 = 23.25% Brandwahrscheinlichkeit Macht den Skill (und auch das Modul, das die Branchance verringert) komplett wertlos (meiner Meinuch nach natürlich nur)

This is the thing I hate most when I play DD

Can´t really give any advice. Personally, I don´t grind. I come to a ship I don´t like, I stop playing that tree (just sold my Furutaka) It´s a game, if I don´t have fun playing, I stop. Sorry WG, if you make a ship/tree/game not fun, I´m out (and no, I will _not_ give you money to skip a (IMO) crap ship - I don´t reward that kind of things.

The one thing I don´t like about smoke (and in general, actually) is the "spotting for others" mechanics. As far as I know, there weren´t any networked fire control systems in the time-area the games covers. If you are sitting inside/behind smoke, sure, you won´t be spotted by the enemy, but you should be blind yourself too (I am fine with showing enemy ships on the map (the spotter reports the enemy via wireless) but you are not able to shoot at them (guns are laid optically, if you can´t see them, you can´t shoot at them). _That´s_ how smoke was used historically (yes, I used the evil "H" word and yes, I am aware that this mechanic won´t go away)